Masks

[classygranny]

If a house quits mandating mask wearing before the league is complete, can the league vote to mandate masks? I assume it would be a rule change and require 100% written approval from the BOD. Although the GM is questioning whether we could because the house can't enforce it. Opinions. No time to ask USBC as this will be an issue in the morning.

[bowl1820]

If a house quits mandating mask wearing before the league is complete, can the league vote to mandate masks?

You could, it could basically be as part of a league dress code or just a rule.


I assume it would be a rule change and require 100% written approval from the BOD.

Yes 100% written approval.
5. After the league schedule begins, a change in the league rules, schedule and/or prize list can only be made with the written consent of every team captain or designated representative.

And I'd almost bet it would never pass.


Although the GM is questioning whether we could because the house can't enforce it. Opinions. No time to ask USBC as this will be an issue in the morning.

It's up to the league to enforce league rules not the house, The house enforces house rules.

Note if you make a mask rule you need to list the penalty for violating it too and follow through with consistently enforcing it (and be prepared for the possibility of losing players and teams.)

[classygranny]

Thanks Bowl! I knew I could count on you.

I know it won't pass...just looking for backup for all the ones that will whine about it.

[Ryster]

If a house quits mandating mask wearing before the league is complete, can the league vote to mandate masks? I assume it would be a rule change and require 100% written approval from the BOD. Although the GM is questioning whether we could because the house can't enforce it. Opinions. No time to ask USBC as this will be an issue in the morning.

Just saw that the AZ Governor has lifted the mask mandate in the state, and basically said that businesses can choose whether or not to mandate masks.

I would wager that most businesses (aside from personal care such as hair and nail salons) will also lift their mask mandates just to encourage more business and remove the burden on them to enforce the rule.

Mandating masks in leagues here in PA would never work. 98% of league bowlers haven't been wearing them even during the darkest periods of the pandemic. If such a rule were implemented, the leagues would literally fold.

What is prompting discussion of having of a league mask mandate? Are some league members requesting a vote on such a rule?

[Aslan]

I can't see, outside of a senior league in a liberal area of a liberal state...a mask mandate passing a league vote with 100% of team captains...."unless" you had a special circumstance like a very vulnerable bowler. Like, if you had a senior bowler with health conditions....someone who had been bowling in the league for quite awhile...and they made a passionate plea for everyone to wear a mask....I could see bowlers rallying together for that situation.

But, outside of that...there's too much division on the issue and we're now at a point where nearly 1/3 of the country has been vaccinated.

Our state was one of the first to lift the state-wide mandate (which nobody really followed anyway)...and our bowling centers are still requiring masks in common areas. I stopped wearing mine when I bowl just because it fogs up my glasses and I got sick of constantly taking my glasses on and off. Plus, by the end of the night, the strap was hurting my ears. Not to mention, nobody on my team asked me to wear one nor did any opposing team. I'm not a jerk (contrary to certain opinions)...if a bowler on my team or on the other team asked me to wear one...I would. I mean, I'm fine putting my own health at risk...becuase I've looked at the data and I know my situation...but I'm not going to put someone else at risk if they are concerned. That being said, I'm not gonna wear a hijab the rest of my life. This has to end sometime.

It's gonna be up to private businesses. They have the authority to enforce their own rules. People can then choose to shop/dine based on those rules. I still wear a mask when I go in the gas station, bank, and grocery store...because they have signs saying I have to.

[J Anderson]

I can't see, outside of a senior league in a liberal area of a liberal state...a mask mandate passing a league vote with 100% of team captains...."unless" you had a special circumstance like a very vulnerable bowler. Like, if you had a senior bowler with health conditions....someone who had been bowling in the league for quite awhile...and they made a passionate plea for everyone to wear a mask....I could see bowlers rallying together for that situation.

But, outside of that...there's too much division on the issue and we're now at a point where nearly 1/3 of the country has been vaccinated.

Our state was one of the first to lift the state-wide mandate (which nobody really followed anyway)...and our bowling centers are still requiring masks in common areas. I stopped wearing mine when I bowl just because it fogs up my glasses and I got sick of constantly taking my glasses on and off. Plus, by the end of the night, the strap was hurting my ears. Not to mention, nobody on my team asked me to wear one nor did any opposing team. I'm not a jerk (contrary to certain opinions)...if a bowler on my team or on the other team asked me to wear one...I would. I mean, I'm fine putting my own health at risk...becuase I've looked at the data and I know my situation...but I'm not going to put someone else at risk if they are concerned. That being said, I'm not gonna wear a hijab the rest of my life. This has to end sometime.

It's gonna be up to private businesses. They have the authority to enforce their own rules. People can then choose to shop/dine based on those rules. I still wear a mask when I go in the gas station, bank, and grocery store...because they have signs saying I have to.

What bugs me is when a business leaves the signs up but does nothing to enforce the rules.

[Ryster]

I can't see, outside of a senior league in a liberal area of a liberal state...a mask mandate passing a league vote with 100% of team captains...."unless" you had a special circumstance like a very vulnerable bowler. Like, if you had a senior bowler with health conditions....someone who had been bowling in the league for quite awhile...and they made a passionate plea for everyone to wear a mask....I could see bowlers rallying together for that situation.

But, outside of that...there's too much division on the issue and we're now at a point where nearly 1/3 of the country has been vaccinated.

Our state was one of the first to lift the state-wide mandate (which nobody really followed anyway)...and our bowling centers are still requiring masks in common areas. I stopped wearing mine when I bowl just because it fogs up my glasses and I got sick of constantly taking my glasses on and off. Plus, by the end of the night, the strap was hurting my ears. Not to mention, nobody on my team asked me to wear one nor did any opposing team. I'm not a jerk (contrary to certain opinions)...if a bowler on my team or on the other team asked me to wear one...I would. I mean, I'm fine putting my own health at risk...becuase I've looked at the data and I know my situation...but I'm not going to put someone else at risk if they are concerned. That being said, I'm not gonna wear a hijab the rest of my life. This has to end sometime.

It's gonna be up to private businesses. They have the authority to enforce their own rules. People can then choose to shop/dine based on those rules. I still wear a mask when I go in the gas station, bank, and grocery store...because they have signs saying I have to.

The general attitude around here is "if you don't feel safe, don't bowl!". People wouldn't rally around someone on a league asking for everyone to wear one. We had people on leagues encouraging bowlers and the bowling center to enforce masks at all times, and the pleas fell on deaf ears at all levels. Some of the people simply dropped off their leagues and have not been back since.

I wear my mask at all times while bowling because it feels like the right thing to do. And, cases in this area are on the rise again so there is that too.

[RobLV1]

I can't see, outside of a senior league in a liberal area of a liberal state...a mask mandate passing a league vote with 100% of team captains...."unless" you had a special circumstance like a very vulnerable bowler. Like, if you had a senior bowler with health conditions....someone who had been bowling in the league for quite awhile...and they made a passionate plea for everyone to wear a mask....I could see bowlers rallying together for that situation.

How about if THREE league bowlers from one center have died because idiot bowlers refuse to cover their mouths AND their noses?!?

[Aslan]

What bugs me is when a business leaves the signs up but does nothing to enforce the rules.
I think some centers are scared to take down signage due to legal risk. Easier to just leave it up and not enforce it to the point that it scares people off.


The general attitude around here is "if you don't feel safe, don't bowl!". People wouldn't rally around someone on a league asking for everyone to wear one.
Maybe. I don't know. I've bowled on leagues with guys in wheelchairs where they had wooden ramps you had to walk around and older guys that took forever to get to the foul line and back because they were in their 90s. Some of these fellas had been in the league for decades. If someone like that had a "legitimate" issue...bowlers would tend to rally around them.


We had people on leagues encouraging bowlers and the bowling center to enforce masks at all times, and the pleas fell on deaf ears at all levels....I wear my mask at all times while bowling because it feels like the right thing to do.
I think the problem is you need something more specific than "it's the right thing to do" or "numbers are on the rise". People respond better when they know the plea is based in a person's actual condition or when they know someone that recently suffered from Covid. It has to be personal to them or else it's just something that one group of people wants them to do that they don't want to do. And for every "fact" there are "alternative facts". For every position or opinion, an alternative position or opinion.

Thats why I brought up the "one person in the league" scenario. Getting 100% of managers to agree is nearly impossible because you're asking liberals that have been told daily that Covid is on the verge of killing them and they MUST wear a mask...no 2 masks...no 3 masks...to be around others who aren't wearing one. On the other hand, if you want a mask mandate in the league, you're asking a group of conservatives to wear masks...even though they may not have risk factors, or may already be immune or vaccinated, or may believe the masks aren't as effective, or may believe the pandemic not as dangerous to their demographic. The only "solution" is a compromise. But how do you compromise when the result of any compromise could potentially be a deadly virus infection...even if that likelihood is 0.00008%?

And, for each person a league loses for lax enforcement of mask rules...you could lose one for too much enforcement. The USBC has been battling that for YEARS! Every time they make a rule...they lose some bowlers. Every time they fail to make a rule...they lose some bowlers. There's just no pleasing everyone. We went though this with cigarette smoking (for those old enough to remember). Bowling centers, casinos, restaurants...they all were under pressure. Do they ban smoking and risk losing their smokers? Or do they tell the non-smokers, "too bad....deal with the potential lung cancer if you want to come here". It sounds silly 'now'...but it was not silly then. Entire leagues would move to houses where smoking was still allowed. Finally, states had to pass laws to ban smoking in public places to provide cover for businesses. Sound familiar (mask mandates)?

We got used to speed limits. We got used to wearing seatbelts in cars. We got used to non-smoking on airplanes and inside public buildings. Would we get used to wearing a mask whenever we are interacting with people...forever? As much as I hate it...probably. It would take 20-30 years of 'fighting'...but eventually we'd just 'comply'. Then, we'd look back at those days when people walked around with their faces uncovered and think, "wow! they were so uneducated! Imagine how many horrible respiratory diseases they could have avoided!" Just like looking back at people that used to smoke on airplanes and think, "really? on an airplane full of people!?"

[Aslan]

How about if THREE league bowlers from one center have died because idiot bowlers refuse to cover their mouths AND their noses?!?

I could see making that case even if it was one...I don't think you'd need THREE.

I mean, if you're in a league...especially a smaller, senior league...and you've had a Covid fatality....I gotta think that might be enough to change hearts and minds in that league. So yeah, I think a fatality (unfortunately) would be enough to get 100% of a league manager vote. I'm trying to think if it would be enough in the leagues I'm in or have been in recently....it kinda depends on the league. The larger the league, the harder it is to get to 100%...just mathematics.

But yeah, I think of the 3 most recent leagues I've been in...a Covid-related fatality would likely be enough to convince the league to agree and comply with a league mask mandate. Granted, thats a guess and I'd like to think of that as a textbook definition of "worst case scenario".

[J Anderson]

I think some centers are scared to take down signage due to legal risk. Easier to just leave it up and not enforce it to the point that it scares people off.


Maybe. I don't know. I've bowled on leagues with guys in wheelchairs where they had wooden ramps you had to walk around and older guys that took forever to get to the foul line and back because they were in their 90s. Some of these fellas had been in the league for decades. If someone like that had a "legitimate" issue...bowlers would tend to rally around them.


I think the problem is you need something more specific than "it's the right thing to do" or "numbers are on the rise". People respond better when they know the plea is based in a person's actual condition or when they know someone that recently suffered from Covid. It has to be personal to them or else it's just something that one group of people wants them to do that they don't want to do. And for every "fact" there are "alternative facts". For every position or opinion, an alternative position or opinion.

Thats why I brought up the "one person in the league" scenario. Getting 100% of managers to agree is nearly impossible because you're asking liberals that have been told daily that Covid is on the verge of killing them and they MUST wear a mask...no 2 masks...no 3 masks...to be around others who aren't wearing one. On the other hand, if you want a mask mandate in the league, you're asking a group of conservatives to wear masks...even though they may not have risk factors, or may already be immune or vaccinated, or may believe the masks aren't as effective, or may believe the pandemic not as dangerous to their demographic. The only "solution" is a compromise. But how do you compromise when the result of any compromise could potentially be a deadly virus infection...even if that likelihood is 0.00008%?

And, for each person a league loses for lax enforcement of mask rules...you could lose one for too much enforcement. The USBC has been battling that for YEARS! Every time they make a rule...they lose some bowlers. Every time they fail to make a rule...they lose some bowlers. There's just no pleasing everyone. We went though this with cigarette smoking (for those old enough to remember). Bowling centers, casinos, restaurants...they all were under pressure. Do they ban smoking and risk losing their smokers? Or do they tell the non-smokers, "too bad....deal with the potential lung cancer if you want to come here". It sounds silly 'now'...but it was not silly then. Entire leagues would move to houses where smoking was still allowed. Finally, states had to pass laws to ban smoking in public places to provide cover for businesses. Sound familiar (mask mandates)?

We got used to speed limits. We got used to wearing seatbelts in cars. We got used to non-smoking on airplanes and inside public buildings. Would we get used to wearing a mask whenever we are interacting with people...forever? As much as I hate it...probably. It would take 20-30 years of 'fighting'...but eventually we'd just 'comply'. Then, we'd look back at those days when people walked around with their faces uncovered and think, "wow! they were so uneducated! Imagine how many horrible respiratory diseases they could have avoided!" Just like looking back at people that used to smoke on airplanes and think, "really? on an airplane full of people!?"

I wasn’t complaining about where I bowl. They were actually proactive in coming up with a plan they presented to the state to allow them to reopen. Some staff members are better than others at enforcing the rules, but they can’t keep a close eye on all 56 lanes.

From what I’ve seen, the senior league bowlers are among the worst at wearing masks properly. Some have the attitude that the masks are B.S. Others claim they can’t bowl wearing a mask, they don’t get enough air. And then half of them pull their masks down when they want to talk to you. And they were doing this before the vaccine became available.

[classygranny]

I could see making that case even if it was one...I don't think you'd need THREE.

I mean, if you're in a league...especially a smaller, senior league...and you've had a Covid fatality....I gotta think that might be enough to change hearts and minds in that league. So yeah, I think a fatality (unfortunately) would be enough to get 100% of a league manager vote. I'm trying to think if it would be enough in the leagues I'm in or have been in recently....it kinda depends on the league. The larger the league, the harder it is to get to 100%...just mathematics.

But yeah, I think of the 3 most recent leagues I've been in...a Covid-related fatality would likely be enough to convince the league to agree and comply with a league mask mandate. Granted, thats a guess and I'd like to think of that as a textbook definition of "worst case scenario".

Unfortunately, or however you want to look at it...the seniors don't really look at life the same way as some of the younger generations....and not all seniors have the same opinion. Most of our league was going without masks today after the governors change in mandate. Some still wearing masks. A few questioned putting a rule in, but understood the issue of doing so. And apparently death by Covid doesn't really change minds. We have lost 4 of our league members since the beginning and we still have 48 bowlers bowling league and signing up for summer leagues already. So Bowlero has no mask mandate and our GM indicates "they are not the mask police" any longer, so no ruling will be in effect....personal choice to wear or not to wear. Honestly, I think the Governor did what he did to encourage the vaccinations as people were opting to pass on the vaccine as they "still had to wear a mask".

And yes, some members were wanting to vote on it in the beginning...just figured the Governor's ruling would bring it up again.

[boatman37]

Thankfully I don't know anyone that has died from COVID, although I do know about 150 or so that have had it. A few spent time in the hospital but recovered. One guy at work on my team had it about a month ago but didn't miss any work. He sounded like he had a bad cold. We all work from home so it is not an issue. But last week another one got it and spent last weekend in the hospital. He has been off now about 9 days. I just texted him and he said he still feels like crap.

A year ago when all of this hit 3 guys in our league got it one night. One was in ICU but has recovered and is back to bowling in our league. The other 2 are fine too and one of them is back to league bowling too. There is another team in our league that I heard the whole team tested positive so they weren't there for a couple of weeks. We did lose a bunch in our league because of the fear. We went from 16 teams to 11.

PA is way behind on this whole vaccine thing. We are still under 1A meaning you have to be 65 or over to be eligible for the vaccine. I'm still not completely on board for getting it but probably will. I was told that I am eligible due to my occupation but not sure (IT-Cyber Security).

[Timmyb]

Hardly anyone in our league wears masks, except for our team. 3 of the guys bowling for us this year got the bug, so it just became a normal thing for us to do. We don't ask the others to wear them, and no one gives us any grief, either. Our mask mandate is supposed to run out April 5th, but I'm pretty sure our Guvna is going to extend it past Memorial Day.

[boatman37]

Just an update on my co-worker, no change in his status but heard from another co-worker that he had been very worried about COVID and had hardly left his house at all in the past year and was very careful when he was out but he still got it. He is 52 and probably about 400lbs. No idea on any underlying issues other than weight

[mc_runner]

2 bowlers I know have died of COVID now. I don't think either of them caught it from bowling (both were off leagues this year) but unfortunately still happened. Quite a few people have had it and recovered in the league I'm in, which after the first one or two wasn't really a surprise anymore. I bowl with a mask on and our center has been pretty reliably enforcing, without anyone really complaining - people knew what they were getting into this year.

Couple of personal notes... with a small child over the last couple of years SOMEONE in our house was pretty much sick with a cold of some sort from Nov - March constnatly every year. This year, wearing masks... just one cold total right at the beginning of schools reopening in September. Just that makes me "OK" with the masks in public! Our state is also opening up vaccines for 16+ in the next week so I'm looking forward to booking ASAP and feeling like I'm able to do stuff again without nearly as much of a cloud over us.

[Phonetek]

We as employees at our center are required to wear them at all times and we do. Bowlers however are SUPPOSED to which we periodically announce daily over the mic.

The loophole is if they are consuming food or drink they of course are not required. Since the majority of our clientele is usually doing one or both it's very difficult to enforce. All we can do remind people that in our state it is still mandatory as are the social distancing rules. Hence we have to use every other lane.

There is also a loophole to that. If a large group comes in together needing more than one lane then they can be assigned sequentially. But strangers next to strangers must have a vacant lane between them. It a complete pain in the *** when we only have 12 lanes to work with.

So yeah, with all of that masks are required but all we can do is put the word out. We can't do much about actually enforcing it unless we stop serving food and drink which isn't going to happen. That's where the majority of our money is made, bowling is only a small percentage because it's very cheap at our center.

[boomer]

How about if THREE league bowlers from one center have died because idiot bowlers refuse to cover their mouths AND their noses?!?

Problem with this is unequivocally showing that it was from bowling at the center that caused it.

That's a hard stretch - especially when you've got a ton of older bowlers who are not getting it, and very likely those three have other contacts (stores, for instance) which are far higher risk.

I'm not accusing, I'm just presenting the argument. I've got in-laws that are 86 and 88 and are ACHING to get back to bowling, mask or no mask.

[boatman37]

Well was just told daughter-in-law just tested positive. I went with my step-son last Wednesday to pick up their new travel trailer and was at their house that day. My other daughter-in-law was there at their house Saturday. Saturday night DIL #1 started feeling sick. Tested + today. DIL #2 feels fine so far but is now in self quarantine because of direct contact. My son was with her obviously but is now hundreds of miles away for work. He still fees fine but is not under any restrictions yet. Fun times! ughhhh. Can't wait until this crap is over with