Control of "who" bowls t

[classygranny]

This morning a possible situation was brought to my attention, as secretary and to the attention of our president as well. I know the answer but looking for ideas and suggestions on how to handle if this comes up in a meeting.

We have several good bowlers on our Friday morning league which is mostly seniors, but we allow any age over 18, so we have a few on the younger side as well, so we are not classified as a senior league and don't want to be.

Unfortunately, one of our better bowlers has been on fire lately, and has shot 700s for the last 3 or 4 weeks. Today was 794.

The team he was bowling against is up in arms, and we heard thru the grapevine they want to "oust" him from the league. Well, that really isn't going to happen on my watch as it's hard to find bowlers for daytime leagues and it would be discrimination, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, we are 100% handicap from 230, and their average is currently 205 - which will probably go to 210/211 after today.

What can we say or do, either at the meeting, or before to perhaps head this off?

[RobLV1]

At 100% handicap, your league is as fair as it can possibly be. Fair for everyone. Perhaps you can tactfully suggest to the team that is up in arms that they spend less time complaining and more time practicing. Or, you could oust the good bowlers from the league and rename it the lousy bowlers league! LOL

[boatman37]

At 100% handicap, your league is as fair as it can possibly be. Fair for everyone. Perhaps you can tactfully suggest to the team that is up in arms that they spend less time complaining and more time practicing. Or, you could oust the good bowlers from the league and rename it the lousy bowlers league! LOL

Agree 100% with Rob. Even if they are sandbagging that, unfortunately, is part of the game. If they aren't sandbagging then they need to quit being sore losers and try to get better. 100% handicap is very generous. Ours is 80%. If we were 100% I would feel horrible about complaining.

[Timmyb]

I walked into a handicap league last year for the first time in 5 years. Took high average by 6 pins. There were a few people that were not happy with that. They can get over it.

[J Anderson]

I doubt if there is anything you can say or do to prevent those who are upset over this bowler’s hot streak from making a fuss. While the league officials would have no grounds to ban him, unfortunately, if there are a significant number of bowlers who feel he doesn’t belong they may make him feel very unwelcome, possibly to the point that he will not come back for the next season. Sometimes all it takes is one or two bowlers to chase someone out.

The main problem is that there are not enough bowlers with the time to commit to league bowling to have leagues where everyone is at a similar skill level. A few years ago I came across an American Bowling Congress handicap guide from 1967. It recommended that leagues limit entering averages to a range of about 30 pins. For example, a social/fun league might have bowlers with averages from 130 to 160. A more competitive league might choose 170 to 199, while a really serious league might limit bowlers to 210 and up. It seems that there are fewer people who have a regular schedule that allows them to bowl every week for 30 to 36 weeks.

[RobLV1]

Agree 100% with Rob. Even if they are sandbagging that, unfortunately, is part of the game. If they aren't sandbagging then they need to quit being sore losers and try to get better. 100% handicap is very generous. Ours is 80%. If we were 100% I would feel horrible about complaining.

In the nearly 40 years that I've been bowling, I've met exactly three sandbaggers. In the same time period, I've heard hundreds and hundreds of bowlers accusing someone who had a good set of sandbagging. I've come to the conclusion that bowlers who accuse others of sandbagging are those who are capable of it themselves. Why can't we just congratulate someone who has a great set rather than accusing them of cheating?

[boatman37]

In the nearly 40 years that I've been bowling, I've met exactly three sandbaggers. In the same time period, I've heard hundreds and hundreds of bowlers accusing someone who had a good set of sandbagging. I've come to the conclusion that bowlers who accuse others of sandbagging are those who are capable of it themselves. Why can't we just congratulate someone who has a great set rather than accusing them of cheating?

I agree with that. I don't think we have any sandbaggers in either of our leagues. One reason is the better bowlers all enter the weekly jackpot so doubt they would sandbag if they are paying money for good games. I can't say I have ever seen a sandbagger but not saying I haven't either. Sure there are perceptions. I mean there are a few guys that always bowl way over their average against us but it is coincidence rather than sandbagging

[Ryster]

Sandbaggers are out there. I have had bowlers admit to me that they keep their average down so they get more handicap in tournaments. I have also had those same bowlers try to get me to do the same thing. They call it "playing the game". It's crazy to me that people wouldn't always bowl their best.

With regards to trying to remove bowlers from a 100% handicap league. That is just ridiculous. If those complainers don't like the league, then they should leave instead of trying to force a bowler out simply because that bowler has a higher average. Those complainers should be embarrassed of themselves for such behavior.

[Phonetek]

Sandbaggers always have been and always will be pathetic, but they will always be out there. Getting rid of them is not as easy as banning Spider tack in baseball. Even with that someone will develope something better that's even more difficult to detect.

Cheaters always cheat. An unfortunate reality. All us honest sportsmen can do is continue to bowl our best and hope our best still beats the cheaters and takes them down a peg. Just like the batters facing the 97 mph ball of goop, get a hold of it anyway and hit it into orbit.

I personally have no issue challenging a sandbagger to a one v one. Chances are they'll know you're going to be bowling your best therefore you're already in their head before the first ball is thrown giving you the advantage.

As far as trying to get those actual good bowlers out of the league... The whole thing is ludicrous. Somebody has to be the best on the league. What are you supposed to do? Get rid of all the best players until the whiners are the best by elimination? Easier to get rid of the whiners. Have them sign up on a couples league with their significant others. Let's see how they stack up against the competition when their partner shoots a 225 series.

[Aslan]

In the nearly 40 years that I've been bowling, I've met exactly three sandbaggers. In the same time period, I've heard hundreds and hundreds of bowlers accusing someone who had a good set of sandbagging. I've come to the conclusion that bowlers who accuse others of sandbagging are those who are capable of it themselves. Why can't we just congratulate someone who has a great set rather than accusing them of cheating?


Sandbaggers are out there. I have had bowlers admit to me that they keep their average down so they get more handicap in tournaments. I have also had those same bowlers try to get me to do the same thing. They call it "playing the game". It's crazy to me that people wouldn't always bowl their best.

Oooo....I liked both of these posts, so I had to quote both of them.

In one regard, I agree with Rob...the "talk" of sandbaggers is like the griping about how your particular center is so much harder than any other center. While there 'sometimes' is truth to it...the 'talk' usually FAAAAR outweighs the truth.

On the other hand, when a person who has obviously lost...throws both their final shots in the gutter at about the arrows without even bothering to even glance at the pins in the 10th frame...it's pretty obvious that they really don't see the point to finishing out the night respectfully and will instead salvage as much handicap as they can.

I've already pitched a perfect solution to this problem...divisional scratch leagues...but it was more of a workable solution back when bowling had a really high popularity than it is now where bowling is on the verge of all-out disappearance.

To answer CG's question, I think the appropriate answer is we play by the rules we established. If we want to change the rules for next season to create a senior league or to limit incoming averages or cap team averages...all of that will be welcome and you'll be happy to make a note of it as agenda items. But, there is no legal, USBC sanctioned, way to eject a bowler that hasn't broken any rules other than being "perceived" as a sandbagger. We start ejecting "perceived" sandbaggers...every person on this website and 85% of most leagues would be ejected at some point during a season.

[Aslan]

I'll also point out that Ryster is listed...by the forum...as a "sandbagger".

Just sayin.

[Ryster]

I'll also point out that Ryster is listed...by the forum...as a "sandbagger".

Just sayin.

I have no control over that designation on this site. Not sure what your point is.

[classygranny]

I'll also point out that Ryster is listed...by the forum...as a "sandbagger".

Just sayin.


I have no control over that designation on this site. Not sure what your point is.

He's just being funny and trying to get your goat...

This guy isn't a sandbagger, he just bowls enough that if he hits a good pair of lanes on a good day, he will score high. To be honest, I'm not sure he would know what a sandbagger is. He can be a bit annoying as he likes to talk, and repeat. Sometimes I think he's still talking to "whoever" when he's on the approach.

[classygranny]

At bowling today, one week later after the "melt down" I find out that the "good bowler" that should not be allowed in our league is actually going to bowl on the complainer's husbands team in the fall.

Seems ironic. My team's after bowling conversation consisted of..."I wonder is she knows that yet?"

More drama to come, I'm sure. I just keep laughing as I have no other option.

[Aslan]

He's just being funny and trying to get your goat...

Actually, if he posts 2 more times, I think he'll graduate to a non-sandbagger. I'm not sure how it works either.

But, as long as I've collected my goats...I'm good.