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RobLV1
09-29-2021, 09:00 PM
A little over two years ago, the USBC announced that local associations no longer had to do yearly inspections and certification of bowling centers. The inspections were going to be "handled" by the National Association. Has anyone seen or heard of any centers being inspected and certified by any official organization in the last two years?

Aslan
09-29-2021, 09:32 PM
Did you ask that question without laughing?

J Anderson
09-30-2021, 06:50 AM
No Rob, I haven’t. I can sort of understand the reasoning behind the decision, but I just don’t see how the USBC will actually be able to do all the inspections.

classygranny
09-30-2021, 07:53 AM
This is from the USBC website:

USBC also determined it will not require local associations to perform annual lane inspections as the USBC Equipment Specifications and Certifications team continues its work to fully develop the program. The decision means all bowling centers will be certified until the national staff begins center certifications in 2022.

RobLV1
09-30-2021, 08:16 AM
This is from the USBC website:

USBC also determined it will not require local associations to perform annual lane inspections as the USBC Equipment Specifications and Certifications team continues its work to fully develop the program. The decision means all bowling centers will be certified until the national staff begins center certifications in 2022.

Thank you. I don't know about all of you, but I know that where I bowl, back racks and weird topography are the order of the day.

Ryster
09-30-2021, 08:45 AM
Definitely no certifications going on locally around here. The local association is having a hard enough time fielding entries for tournaments, let alone going around and inspecting lanes.

Aslan
09-30-2021, 01:35 PM
What's the point? The USBC has never and will never stand up to the BPAA on this issue. They showed the extent of their power when they took a stand against Motiv...and it was pathetic.

They (the USBC) represents about 5% (the sport part of a primarily recreational activity) that is dying and has been since the 1970s. They have bent a knee to the BPAA, the ball manufacturers, the PBA, and the members at every turn...trying to hold onto that last bit of the sport they still have...because they just don't have the power to do anything else.

- If the USBC says they need to raise dues to better the sport...or ban wrist braces or stop 2-handed bowling to preserve the integrity of the sport...members cry and threaten a revolt. So...the most controversial thing they've managed to do is make a rule getting rid of weight holes...which effects about 0.005% of bowlers on balls they likely were not using or going to throw away within a year anyway.

- When Motiv clearly and (from all evidence I've seen)...pretty much intentionally violated the ball specifications rule back a few years ago with the Jackal debacle. Did the USBC remove titles from the PBA bowlers that recently won them throwing illegal equipment...who deprived their competition of winning those titles? Nope. Was Motiv suspended from PBA play for a year per USBC rules? Nope. The PBA handles PBA business...and without a PBA...competitive bowling is all but dead. So...two bowlers got wins they likely stole.

- During the Motiv debacle, did the USBC fully investigate what Motiv knew and when? Nope. Of matter of fact, early on, they acted like they were sad they had to enforce their own rules...coming out in a press statement saying "their hands were tied". In other words, "we wish we could let ball manufacturers cheat...but we accidentally put a rule on the books to limit cheating and a ball manufacturer violated it before we could take it out." While ball manufacturers have increased average scores and made honor scores so exponentially more frequent...the USBC has responded by simply not issuing as many honor score awards.

- Has the USBC ever even 'considered' making the one change that would truly help tone down runaway scores the most and stabilize competition? Standardized oil patterns and volumes for sanctioned leagues...with REAL penalties for centers that don't comply? Nope. Because the first center that fails to comply will simply be the first of many to stop sanctioning leagues.

They could set up a truly competitive sanctioned league system...with standardized patterns. A divisional system that encourages people to improve so they can rise through the divisions. They could look even closer at ball specs and equipment and work with the Olympic committee to see what it is about bowling equipment that needs to be changed to get bowling re-considered for the Olympics. They could then focus on youth development...getting bowling in the schools...making sure it's a high school sport at as many high schools as possible.

The problem is...it might be too late for all of this. I'm on the wrong side of 45 and I'm one of the younger half in nearly every league I'm in. In 10-20 years, about 75% of the league bowlers today are probably going to be dead. And while the leagues around here are mostly doing fine...and somewhat full...finding a good coach is nearly impossible and a good pro shop also scarce.

So, back to the original sentence...what is the USBC gonna do if a center isn't in compliance? Is it gonna be Motiv 2.0? Here's a fine and a suspension. But, we'll waive the suspension and here's an apology letter for having to give you a fine? Can they do anything about the pins while they are there? One center I sub at the pins seem like they are coated in a thin layer of Nerf they are so dead.

rant over
(Gotta get down from my soapbox before I crush it)

classygranny
09-30-2021, 06:09 PM
Also from USBC website...

8. With the tiered center certification program, will centers be required to make
repairs to my center to be certified?
Repairs will be optional, but not required. Some centers will choose to make repairs in
order to achieve a higher certification tier.

RobLV1
09-30-2021, 07:10 PM
Also from USBC website...

8. With the tiered center certification program, will centers be required to make
repairs to my center to be certified?
Repairs will be optional, but not required. Some centers will choose to make repairs in
order to achieve a higher certification tier.

Absolutely terrifying!

classygranny
10-01-2021, 12:16 AM
Absolutely terrifying!

Absolutely. I don't quite understand the tiered certification and the intent. Still trying to decipher all the information. But, I do know, I don't like it.

RobLV1
10-01-2021, 06:24 AM
Absolutely. I don't quite understand the tiered certification and the intent. Still trying to decipher all the information. But, I do know, I don't like it.

I'm thinking that, unless a center wants to be considered for hosting a PBA event, the inspection and certification will be minimal.

classygranny
10-01-2021, 06:50 AM
Just found this on the website as well...

ARLINGTON, Texas – The United States Bowling Congress (USBC) is postponing implementation of a new tiered center certification model until January 2023.

USBC is aware of the significant impact on bowling center revenue and operations because of the COVID-19 pandemic. In consideration of the disruptions, USBC reviewed the timeline for the rollout of the new tiered center certification program and decided to push back the implementation timeline by one year to allow bowling centers to focus on more immediate business needs.

Inspection of centers under the new program will not begin until Jan. 1, 2023.

Following a study of the lane certification process and analyzing data from lane inspections, USBC announced in December 2019 that it would implement a center certification program, featuring tiered levels of certification and a national staff of lane inspectors, over the next five years.

USBC also announced it would not require local associations to perform annual lane inspections as the USBC Equipment Specifications and Certifications team continues its work to fully develop the program.

USBC continues to collaborate with industry stakeholders to evaluate and build the model with details to be announced no later than the 2022 USBC Convention.

Ryster
10-01-2021, 08:18 AM
So basically if a center wants to be able to host USBC sanctioned leagues and tournaments, they need to pay for the USBC Certification and be placed in a tier. Then they get a sticker on their door and a listing on the USBC website as a certified center.

Will companies like Bowlero, who really don't like leagues and rarely host tournaments at their centers, even bother paying to get certified?

Will smaller, independently owned centers be able to afford the inspection?

The report basically states that all centers sampled were not 100% in compliance with all USBC standards. Doesn't say much about the effectiveness of the local associations.

My biggest issue is that the USBC makes so many rules and establishes so many specifications, yet enforcing all of them efficiently is virtually impossible. Whether standards for the centers, or rules for the bowlers, enforcement becomes such a burden. I am not saying there shouldn't be rules and standards, but perhaps it is time to reevaluate the whole rule and specification book and make it more manageable. When there are rules that result in literal fights breaking out at the lanes, you know there is a problem.

League president nicely says to bowler "Hi! Just wanted to let you know that the ball you are using has a balance hole. The USBC no longer allows that in sanctioned competition and we are going to have to ask that you please stop using it until you can get that hole filled up. No big thing, but just wanted to bring it to your attention."

Bowler's immediate response "Are you $%^&ing kidding me?! Which ^&#$^& #$%^*# on the league ratted me out?! I will use whatever GD ball I want, and if you don't like it I will be glad to settle it with you outside in the parking lot right now!"

It takes 2 or 3 other bowlers to step in and defuse the situation. That kind of stuff simply shouldn't happen over something as mundane as a balance hole.

boomer
10-01-2021, 10:29 AM
or mid-evening cleaning when the center leaves big gunky marks on a ball. :/

Aslan
10-01-2021, 11:17 AM
@Ryster

Thats what I was kinda getting at with my rant.

I actually think there should be MORE rules...but what's the point if you can't even (or WON'T even) enforce the ones you have!??

Ryster
10-01-2021, 11:40 AM
or mid-evening cleaning when the center leaves big gunky marks on a ball. :/

As far as I know, the ball cleaning rule waiver that was put in place during the pandemic is still in place which allows for isopropyl alcohol to be used during sanctioned competition to clean bowling balls. If there is gunk on the ball, and you have some isopropyl alcohol, have at it and clean your ball.

https://www.bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622334430

Ryster
10-01-2021, 11:59 AM
@Ryster

Thats what I was kinda getting at with my rant.

I actually think there should be MORE rules...but what's the point if you can't even (or WON'T even) enforce the ones you have!??


The thing that kills me is that the USBC does a ball motion study that shows that balance holes don't really affect ball motion that much. So they eliminate them and require bowlers to get them filled, or the ball is illegal and any scores thrown with the ball are subject to forfeiture. If the holes don't make that much of a difference, why bother changing the rule about them or making people fill them? It is a pointless rule.

They do a study that shows that no one was 100% in compliance from a lane certification perspective (which is arguably a way bigger deal than ball specs), and they delay an action program for a couple of years to address it. Then they want the bowling proprietors to foot the bill to have their lanes certified by the USBC, but they haven't yet decided the pricing schedule. So we will all be participating in sanctioned competition on potentially out-of-compliance lanes for years, but at least our bowling balls will be "legal". So it's not OK to use an "illegal" ball, but it is okay to bowl in non-compliant lanes until they figure everything out. Great plan.

Like you said, they already have 160 pages of rules and specs that they cannot keep track of. Establishing more isn't going to make a bit of difference in "growing the sport".

Aslan
10-01-2021, 12:44 PM
@Ryster

It's the 200,000# elephant in the room....bowling is dead.

They know what they "need" to do...and they can't do it...because it will just either drive the final stake in bowling...or make the USBC obselete.

Tighten the rules on centers...they go non-sanctioned. Leave things as-is...the "sport" is a joke and scores are manufactured by former carnival workers that have had 45 minutes of training on running an oil machine.

Look at all the silly events that were in the Olympics this year. Ya know what ya DIDN'T see? BOWLING. That should tell ya something.

RobLV1
10-01-2021, 07:02 PM
Look at all the silly events that were in the Olympics this year. Ya know what ya DIDN'T see? BOWLING. That should tell ya something.

What other sport punishes a slightly errant 1" missed shot drastically (slightly high four-nine split), and rewards a horrible 4" missed shot with a Brooklyn strike? Bowling will never be in the Olympics, nor should it be. No other sport can be totally controlled by a playing field that is applied by one individual (oil man) using a mechanical device (oil machine) that can malfunction to the detriment of certain of the contestants.

J Anderson
10-01-2021, 09:31 PM
What other sport punishes a slightly errant 1" missed shot drastically (slightly high four-nine split), and rewards a horrible 4" missed shot with a Brooklyn strike? Bowling will never be in the Olympics, nor should it be. No other sport can be totally controlled by a playing field that is applied by one individual (oil man) using a mechanical device (oil machine) that can malfunction to the detriment of certain of the contestants.

Makes you wonder why we keep showing up every week at league🤔

Personally I think bowling will not be an olympic sport in our lifetimes because the score is too dependent on the ball you’re throwing matching up with the lane condition. The only way it becomes a true sport is if you make everyone throw the same type of ball. Of course then the event would be completely dominated by two handers.

Phonetek
10-03-2021, 02:43 PM
Our lanes have been certified this year. The restrictions have stayed consistent with previous years. Last year they were not done due to Covid. The owner insists on having it done every year even though we have zero certified competition.

The only problems we had was an issue with our pin decks being a tiny bit out of spec as far as being at the proper angle. We did not have the so appropriate level at the time to adjust them properly. The second issue was a couple cracked boards on the lanes. Both issues have been rectified and we are 100% in spec on all lanes.

Aslan
10-04-2021, 11:45 AM
see...Phonetek's center is an example of what the USBC was hoping for.

Put out the standard...centers will take it seriously...and since centers are assumed to be generally keeping their machines/lanes in good order anyways...any deviations will be minor, taken seriously, and repaired in good order without any need for enforcement actions.

The question is...of the centers in your area...are they more like Phonetek's? Or not so much?

There are 8 centers in the Des Moines area. That seems like a lot...but coming from Southern California...it seems like a bit of a downgrade. And I can tell you, having bowled at all of them (except one)...at least recreationally...my opinion is:

Bass Lakes Pro: Bowling alley inside a sporting goods store...I don't think it's even USBC sanctioned...just a tourist place to waste money in a black light environment with aquariums around. Only place I haven't bowled.

Air Lanes: No idea. Bowled there a handful of times. It was difficult to get to and really humid inside. I don't think they do tremendous business...so I doubt they'd be lining up to fix things if there were issues.

Gameday Lanes: Bowling alley in the basement of a mall. It closed and re-opened under new management. It's had a history of technical and lane issues that supposedly new ownership had fixed. I bowled there last summer and can tell you new ownership has not fixed the issues. Unlikely this place would pass any USBC inspection of any kind and since it already made so little money that it closed down...I doubt it would infuse more money into it to fix major issues.

Great Escape: This center does a good deal of business and is one of the two legitimate centers in the Des Moines area. The owner is pretty high up in the BPAA. If there is anything wrong, they'd either fix it with no fight or have the sway to fight it.

Bowlerama: The other legitimate center. They probably are the most legitimate center in the area and do the best job with lane maintenance and machine maintenance. They'd fix whatever needed fixing without a fight...assuming anything was wrong.

Val Lanes: This is the biggest center in the area...but not in the best of shape. The USBC would likely have a list that looked like Santa Clause's naughty/nice scroll when they got done in there. And, the owner probably can't afford to fix everything that is wrong. They make decent money on open bowling, have some birthday parties, and a few leagues...but they struggle to get by.

Warrior Lanes: Probably not much wrong here. It's a newer center...and a small center. It mainly caters to youth bowling and birthday parties. If they lost USBC sanctioning they probably wouldn't care because they mainly just have 1 sanctioned adult league...if that per year. But, they probably would want to keep the sanctioning for the youth stuff they do. They don't have a ton of money to work with...so if there was anything major wrong, they might choose to drop sanctioning.

Adel Family Fun Center: This is a small house in the country. Just changed their lanes from wood to synthetics. A kid owns it. It probably would have numerous issues. Each league night there are all kinds of issues with scoring cameras. The pins probably needed to be replaced a while a go. But, the lanes were just redone recently. The owner kinda does work on the place a little at a time as he can afford it. So, an inspection may force him to change things at a pace he can't afford to...and he might have to go non-sanctioned. I don't think he'd close down...he makes a decent amount of money off birthday parties and open bowling...and there's not a lot of options for the country fellas to bowl leagues unless they wanna drive all the way to Des Moines.

So, IN SUMMARY;

Of the 8 centers in this area...1 I don't think is sanctioned now. Five of the remaining seven I think would be willing to lose their USBC sanctioning depending on what work needed to be done. Of those 5, probably only 1 (Warrior) would pass an inspection...because it is newer and well taken care of. So, if the USBC pushed the inspection protocol here...hard...I think we'd have a couple centers that would make some changes (like Phonetek's center)...because they are essentially on top of things anyways...and they are a little bigger...do a LOT of league business, etc...

But for the remaining six...they would have to look at the items from the inspection versus how much money they are brining in and decide how much their sanctioned leagues are worth to them. One of the six centers doesn't have leagues. Two don't really have any sanctioned leagues that I know of. The other only has 1-2 sanctioned leagues this fall and no leagues in the summer. And the final two, of the six, only have maybe 3-5 sanctioned leagues in the fall that they'd lose. That VAST majority of sanctioned leagues are either at Great Escape or Bowlerama.

Phonetek
10-04-2021, 11:41 PM
I can't speak for other centers aside from a handful around me. I can tell you that there are quite a few that are no shows for BPAA meetings. That is considered to be an insult right there. Missing one meeting is one thing but constant no shows is another.

The BPAA is there to help the bowling centers and bowling as a sport. I can only assume if they can't show up for a simple luncheon I have little faith they care much about the USBC.

In my opinion, any place that doesn't certify their lanes shouldn't be allowed to have any USBC competitive play. If they are more worried about family fun then do that. People paying the USBC dues deserve to be bowling on lanes within spec at the very minimum.