It's happening again...

[Phonetek]

A few weeks back when I loaded up the rental bowling shoes, after caring them down I kinda felt a twinge in my shoulder. Thought nothing of it. It was bugging me a bit but nothing that I needed to take anything for.

A couple weeks later I had to bring in all those cases of new bowling pins. It flared up a bit from that but I figured again that given what I had done I wasn't shocked.

Now it's a couple weeks later and man o man, when I lay in bed it's freaking awful! I'm popping Advil and putting anti inflammation cream on and it does squat. It only hurts now and again during the day but it's very miserable at night.

I was able to bowl with my son a few games last week okay but this seems to be very familiar to what happened last time. I have an appointment with my Ortho but it's a few weeks out, he's booked solid. It's the same shoulder as last time but in a different spot and it shoots down the opposite part of my arm as last time.

Kinda ironic that I injured myself about a few weeks before I left that place last time to go work at a different center. Deja Vu. Hopefully this isn't going to require yet another surgery. Maybe just a cortisone shot will work this time? I'm getting too old to keep getting injured and starting over.

[Phonetek]

I bowled 3 games before work yesterday. Yeah... I lost my step a bit and about 3 mph. I can tell my back swing is lower. I wanted to see if it loosened up after a game and it really didn't. The lower speed didn't hurt my game much. I shot high 190's and a 236 so not terrible.

Doc told me to try bowling to see what happens. Ortho appointment is a week a way. If I quit using it then it will likely freeze in place again. It hurts some while bowling but nothing I can't handle. Though it sucked when I went for a ten pin cross lane before I realized I should have took a slice or two of tape out of the thumb hole.

I hung in the ball and THAT did not feel pleasant. So right now I'm damned if I do damned if I don't bowl. Being at a new house of course I want to bowl more. I want to join a couple of the leagues and get into some tourneys. I'll wait patiently now until I see the Ortho

[Phonetek]

Went to orthopedic this morning and it’s bitter sweet news. The good news is, I didn’t tear anything and it’s not any mechanical issue with the shoulder joint. What it is, a nerve in my neck that goes behind the shoulder blade.

They will confirm with MRI and likely treatment will be a simple epidural injection in the nerve. So all and all that’s good news. I expect to be good to go in 3 or 4 weeks, give or take.

I admit I was really worried this time that this was going to be the end of the road. It’s funny how fragile we all really are, more so those of us 40+

I can still bowl if I choose in the interim. I did the other day and shot 3 games. I started with a pitiful 160, I sat down for 10 minutes and rubbed my shoulder then got 258 second game and 246 third game. Cross off that first game I did well. Sadly it took that long to get loose.

[Phonetek]

Since my orthopedic appointment I thought about it and if a nerve is “pinched” the something is out of place. While waiting for my MRI appointment I decided that maybe going to a chiropractor would be something to try. My orthopedic said it couldn’t hurt.

Yesterday I went to one for the first time in my life. I definitely learned a few things. First, chiropractors can be attractive… she was a real head turner! She didn’t have a great sense of humor yet she still cracked me up. WhileI was laying on the table and she was doing her thing, I really felt like I was being manipulated. I always thought that chiropractors were bad and always made things worse… I stand corrected.

Now that I’m done with the bad jokes, I will say that I think it helped. The pain isn’t gone but it’s certainly less. I have a couple more appointments before the MRI so I’ll see how it goes. I’m not ready to hit the lanes but I definitely got a better nights sleep than I have had in a while. It felt good having everything pop. It’s been years since that’s happened.

[RobLV1]

There are two doctors that I trust completely, and both deal with my back issues. Neither one is an MD. One is my chiropractor, and the other is the Chinese doctor to whom I go for acupuncture. These are the only two doctors who know my name without looking at my chart on the door.

[Ryster]

Chiropractors are just physical therapists. If you don't treat the underlying condition that sent you there in the first place, you will be going back to the chiropractor for regular adjustments forever...repeat business is how they make their money.

[Phonetek]

Chiropractors are just physical therapists. If you don't treat the underlying condition that sent you there in the first place, you will be going back to the chiropractor for regular adjustments forever...repeat business is how they make their money.

What sent me there is a pinched nerve. I'm not a doctor but it would suffice it to say that if it's pinched it means something had to move out of place to pinch it. Their job is to move things into place. Seemed like a logical next step.

Today was my second adjustment, I feel even better than the first. I'm in half the pain I started with. I plan on going two more times before the MRI and see what shows up. In concert with that I'm on muscle relaxers and icing my neck and shoulders a couple times a day because I have significant inflammation.

I still have a little numbness which is where I'm going to lean on the Ortho to figure out if it persists. In the meantime I'm staying off the lanes even though I'm feeling better and stronger. No need to exasperate the condition.

By the way... repeat business is where ALL doctors make money. Ask any doctor of anything, there isn't much money in treating healthy people. If nobody has nothing wrong they wouldn't do too well paying the car payment on their Beamers. I'm sure it will take a bazillion visits to the chiro to equal the cost of one MRI and 3 office visits before I get my answer.

That said, I don't think that Chiropractors are for everyone. My wife for example who's disabled would in no way benefit. She's got major problems! She's far too fragile! For minor stuff like this... getting everything lined back up where it should be isn't a bad thing. Especially since I currently have zero arthritis. I'm in those prime years for that to start, is probably better to have things out back where they belong.

Hey Rob, any chance that acupuncturist also practices Voodoo? I can send them a doll that looks like me, they can treat me and it would save me a trip.

[boatman37]

I found a chiropractor that is a one and done type guy. His theory is go once and follow his rules and if you aren't better in a few days the follow up is free. His big thing is stretching your thigh muscles. This is the 3rd chiropractor I have been to. The first 2 wanted to see me a few times a week or 6 months. This guy fixes me and I'm good until the next time I hurt it. And $39/visit. His words were something like 'if they tell you they need to see you more than once a week they are ripping you off'

[classygranny]

I'm a firm believer in the acupuncture. Never found to much help from a chiropractor - except for "issues" out of place ribs, etc. Never on a routine basis like some of them want.

Recently, I've been going to Assisted Stretches. A place called Stretch Lab has technicians that stretch you. Those stretches are more than a person would be able to do on their own.
It has helped my overall health, and kept that arthritic feeling at bay.

If you have the opportunity to check it out, you should.

Good luck in whatever you choose, and hope it works to your satisfaction.

[Phonetek]

I'm a firm believer in the acupuncture. Never found to much help from a chiropractor - except for "issues" out of place ribs, etc. Never on a routine basis like some of them want.

Recently, I've been going to Assisted Stretches. A place called Stretch Lab has technicians that stretch you. Those stretches are more than a person would be able to do on their own.
It has helped my overall health, and kept that arthritic feeling at bay.

If you have the opportunity to check it out, you should.

Good luck in whatever you choose, and hope it works to your satisfaction.

Never heard of a stretch lab before. Stretching is always a good thing. I know my physical therapist used to push and hold my shoulder down while pulling on my arm and it felt great. She never did it long, just a minute or two but I could definitely see getting a 45 minute appointment doing nothing but things like that. Follow that up with a massage I'd be jello.

[Phonetek]

Third appointment today a with a different guy. Their techniques definitely vary. I like this guy better. He did several additional things and man I feel like my skeleton got a lube job.

He saw the range of motion my shoulder has out lack thereof. He said I would benefit from additional physical therapy. He also said my head sticks out about an inch forward from where it should be. Basically from years of sitting in front of a computer, looking down and improper posture. Huh, interesting.

Her actually used a bowling metaphor to my surprise. He said, hold a bowling ball against your chest and you can do it all day. Hold it straight out, it won't be long until it starts to fall. He said heads are heavy (excluding blonds) so it makes sense that eventually they lean forward a bit. That's why you get a stuff neck or pain and it eventually leads to other conditions. I'm learning all kinds of stuff these days!

[boatman37]

So what did he tell you to do to combat the forward head?

I have been told to try acupuncture but juts don't like the thoughts of someone trying to make me look like a porcupine...lol. I have 2 bulging disks from back about 2001 and the front of my right thigh has been numb since then. If I stand too long I get excruciating pain in my leg. If I put my foot up on something that sits about 6" high it feels like a rush of cool going through my leg and it feels great...lol. Doesn't really bother me walking, more standing in one spot

[Phonetek]

So what did he tell you to do to combat the forward head?

Basically they get everything loosened up and into place the best they can. Then I do stretching exercises and try to strengthen it in addition to better posture.

I don't know if there's exactly a "fix" per say but there are things to do to not make it worse and end up like Igor in Son of Frankenstein.

[Phonetek]

I will say that being tall and having to constantly look down to talk to people isn't helping me. LOL

[boatman37]

lol. I sit in front of a computer at least 8 hours a day and notice the back of my neck getting sore

[Phonetek]

lol. I sit in front of a computer at least 8 hours a day and notice the back of my neck getting sore

Yep, things like that. Many have said my head ain’t screwed on straight. I guess they were right. Next person that says it I’ll let them know why. I had the MRI this morning, I find out Friday what the prognosis is. I’m keeping my fingers crossed something can get done and fast. I’ve had enough!

[Ryster]

What sent me there is a pinched nerve. I'm not a doctor but it would suffice it to say that if it's pinched it means something had to move out of place to pinch it. Their job is to move things into place. Seemed like a logical next step.

Today was my second adjustment, I feel even better than the first. I'm in half the pain I started with. I plan on going two more times before the MRI and see what shows up. In concert with that I'm on muscle relaxers and icing my neck and shoulders a couple times a day because I have significant inflammation.

I still have a little numbness which is where I'm going to lean on the Ortho to figure out if it persists. In the meantime I'm staying off the lanes even though I'm feeling better and stronger. No need to exasperate the condition.

By the way... repeat business is where ALL doctors make money. Ask any doctor of anything, there isn't much money in treating healthy people. If nobody has nothing wrong they wouldn't do too well paying the car payment on their Beamers. I'm sure it will take a bazillion visits to the chiro to equal the cost of one MRI and 3 office visits before I get my answer.

That said, I don't think that Chiropractors are for everyone. My wife for example who's disabled would in no way benefit. She's got major problems! She's far too fragile! For minor stuff like this... getting everything lined back up where it should be isn't a bad thing. Especially since I currently have zero arthritis. I'm in those prime years for that to start, is probably better to have things out back where they belong.

Hey Rob, any chance that acupuncturist also practices Voodoo? I can send them a doll that looks like me, they can treat me and it would save me a trip.


I must have a one-in-a-million doctor. Basically says that seeing them once a year for a check-up means that you are doing everything right. They have more than enough business to give them a nice, long career. Every year, the doctor just says see you next year and if anything comes up in the meantime to give them a call. When I had my annual check-up during the height of the pandemic, my doctor literally told me that if I were to test positive for Covid NOT to call them as they wouldn't be able to do anything. They are extremely conservative in terms of diagnosing and prescriptions as well for anything other than basic day-to-day infections (nose, throat, eyes, ears, skin).

I have friends that go to the Chiropractor monthly for the same aches and pains. Since those are considered "maintenance" treatments they are not covered by insurance.

[Phonetek]

So… got my results and it’s not at all what I expected to hear. I have a severely herniated disc in my cervical spine and “moderate” cervical spine degeneration. The degeneration and inflammation in the disc is pinching the nerve. My cervical spine is way out of whack causing my neck and head to be forward like the chiropractor said.

That’s the diagnosis, as far as the treatment goes the Orthopedic said there is nothing more he can do and passed me off to a pain management doctor. 🙄 I have to say I'm not very inclined to go to someone who likely just going to prescribe opioids. They are a mask and in the long run and do more harm than good. I'm not interested.

So since everything in my neck is basically compressed, I'm going to seek out someone who deals with spinal decompression. IMO that's more of a fix vs throwing drugs at it. I know of a place that does this and I'm setting up a consult. I have to find out if continuing the chiropractor would help asking will the decompression or not. For now I'm putting everything on hold until I do.

In the meantime I'll just deal with the pain with Advil and ice. And of course I'm staying off the lanes too as much as I hate to say it. This really sucks, I'm so furious and frustrated! 🤬 I guess this is NOT going to be a quick fix.

[Ryster]

Sorry to hear that. Whatever you do, try to avoid a surgical solution. I have a friend who had inflammation in discs that were pinching nerves. Meds didn't alleviate the issue. Went in for surgery to have the issue repaired which was supposed to open up the area around the nerves and stop the pinching. Part of the recovery was opioids, and they ended up addicted and had to ween themselves off of them. Now they are in more pain than when they started and permanently disabled and unable to work for the rest of their life. Not a good situation at all.

[Phonetek]

Sorry to hear that. Whatever you do, try to avoid a surgical solution. I have a friend who had inflammation in discs that were pinching nerves. Meds didn't alleviate the issue. Went in for surgery to have the issue repaired which was supposed to open up the area around the nerves and stop the pinching. Part of the recovery was opioids, and they ended up addicted and had to ween themselves off of them. Now they are in more pain than when they started and permanently disabled and unable to work for the rest of their life. Not a good situation at all.

I wouldn't do surgery unless I absolutely HAD to. My wife has had 3 spinal fusions and she's completely miserable and worse off than she was before third one. She is disabled for good as a result. I have zero faith in back surgery. I also saw how little the opioids helped. All it did is get her addicted for 6 years. I'm proud to say she has not taken them since last December and reports that she's in no more pain without them than she was on them. To add to it she has 3 tears in her hips and a knee that needs to be replaced but they won't do anything because of her back. Go figure.

I'm going to try this decompression therapy. It make sense after seeing my x-rays and MRI. It's obviously crunched together a little tighter than it should be. Doing therapy to open it up certainly sounds logical to me. I mean I'm not a neurologist but I'll go with logic over drugs and surgery any day.

The pain does suck, I'd say a solid 9 this morning. I used ice in 3 different spots for 20 mins each and it calmed down. I'll deal with it. Pop some Advil if I need to but that's it. I'm just really pissed though. I didn't expect all this. I worked so hard to get back to normal this spring. I was bowling so well too. Now that I'm at a place that I could have done something with it I'm all messed up again. I generally never get angry but this has me angry.

[boomer]

CRAP - I had a post all done and then hit "Reply to Thread" instead of the "Post Quick Reply" button and lost it all.

OK, here goes version 2.

I've lived with pain for decades. My lower back is toast and my left knee is now steel and Delrin. Pain Management helped me a lot - and only prescribed NORCO ONCE.

They have a lot of tools in their toolbox - including manual stretching (I called it "the rack" - looked like the torture device but decompressed my back and WORKED. . . it's akin to the Teeter dealies. . . you might ask about them), steroidal injections to "blast" the inflammation and get to a more maintainable level, point injections of a numbing agent directly to the place needed . . . they have tools!

It's a common misconception that all they do is prescribe opioids - if they do that, LEAVE.

I had the PM doc help me keep my original knee in a usable condition for SIX YEARS (which is good with knee replacement - I can go into reasons later - and the choice was MINE - and my wife's of course, LOL, as to when it was TIME) and they got my lower back to a place where it spasms fairly rarely and I can do self-maintenance on it. I've got a very cool topical anti-inflammatory that works GREAT, and I can get stretched by that machine if I need, etc.

I would strongly advise at least talking to them and being VERY honest about your misgivings and concerns. If they push opioids on you just blankly . . . walk away. If they want to give you something to get the pain and inflammation levels down to where they can work with it from there . . . consider it. I took some very heavy anti-inflammatories but they were on a scaled dosage - worked GREAT - and then we could maintain it from there. It's REALLY difficult to deal with pain when inflammation is causing MORE pain and MORE tightness and MORE inflammation. . .

Anyway - just my two cents . . . again! LOL

[Phonetek]

LOL I've done that too with the reply button many times.

The place I'm going to in a couple weeks for decompression has that device you're talking about, "the rack". They aren't a PM. I'm not sure if they prescribe meds or not.

I'm not going on a misconception about the opioids at least around here. My wife has been to a half dozen different ones over the years and that's all they did. However now that pot is legal in our state, they are pretty quick to suggest that these days too. They have her the medical card to buy it. My wife has no interest in going that direction smoking stuff. She has tried the gummies and said they do help for the most part but not enough for her to exactly enjoy life. Doctors seem to be all on board with that stuff. I'm interested in neither.

Honestly though, I know part of my problem is things that happen with age. That I can accept. I just don't recall being in pain before I did what I did to cause this. If I was, it was nothing that I cared about. Even if the MRI and X Ray's show otherwise. Another words, obviously something I did caused this, not some biological inevitably. I know this because I was fine, I did something, then I wasn't fine.

Spinal degeneration may be part of the problem but that didn't cause it. I'm not expecting that to get fixed. I just don't want to hear from doctors that it is because it's not correct but that's what they will focus on. I did tweak it just right where that degeneration is exasperating the tweak. I've already been down this road with my wife.

All I want is to get back where I was before I did what I did. Which again, all this happened when I brought a 100 pairs of new house shoes down a bazillion stairs then a week later many cases of new bowling pins. Before that I was perfectly fine, deterioration of the spine and all. I hope I'm able to convince the doctors of this. I have high hopes that the place with the rack can just get things back where they should be and I don't need to depend on doctors Cheech & Chong.

This treatment isn't going to be cheap either. It's not covered by insurance and I'm looking at about 5-6k out of pocket at least. I may be making decent money now but that's still going to significantly hurt us financially. Another reason I hope it works. I'd hate to spend that for nothing.

I also love bowling if nobody has guessed. I wasn't great but I was good. What I refuse to accept is that my best days of bowling are behind me. I'm getting back out there hell or high water! That's why I'm not going to deal with morons who are worried about they're bottom line doing pointless procedures and whipping out the prescription pad as a quick fix because they don't know the right way to fix a problem.

[Phonetek]

I've gone for two of the spinal decompression treatments now, continued with the chiro and will soon start PT. After the first decompression treatment I left at a 9 1/2 on the pain scale. I was not very confident.

Strangely an hour after getting home I said "Uh... Wait a minute... Where is the pain?" I mean I was at a complete zero! I still had the numbness in my fingers but no pain! I went to work, felt great. Came home and finally got a really good night sleep. I woke up and I did have some pain but more like a 4. It's gotten a little bit worse, maybe up to a weak 6.

All and all I can deal with that. Today I went for the second treatment and it's maybe a 2 currently. I really think I'm on to something here. Again, not ready to whip out the bowling balls but still.

I did go with wife to HER pain doctor appointment yesterday. I talked to him about my issue. He said what I'm doing is nothing more than a band aid. He said I need a injection into my spine. I asked "That's The cure?" He said "You'll likely have to get them again every 6 months." I said "Can you explain to me how if it isn't a cure that is not a band aid?" He had no reply.

So let me get this straight... Moving things around to get them back where they are supposed to be isn't a fix but injecting drugs into my nervous system to mask the pain and not changing anything is? SMH

I'll probably do the injection to get the relief it's supposed to give. However I'll continue everything else to get Humpty put back together again. From there I'll just continue exercising, stretching, practice proper posture to keep from getting into this situation again.

[boatman37]

Think I mentioned it earlier but I was skeptical of chiropractors before ever going to one. I hurt my back in 1998 or 1999 at work in the steel mill and they sent me to a chiropractor. Went to him for about 6 months. I kept saying I'd love to live in a house across the street from his office cause I literally walked in like a 90 year old man and walked out 30 minutes later perfectly normal. Problem was I'd go to work the next day and jump in a forklift or front end loader and get out all hunched over again. Fast forward to about 2001 and I injured it again and since then the front of my right thigh has been numb and I get excruciating pain like needles shooting through my thigh if I stand too long. Had an MRI and found 2 bulging disks that are pinching a nerve. They suggested surgery but I told them I can live with it.
But yeah, chiropractors have been great for me.

[J Anderson]

My only experience with anything stronger than aspirin, ibuprofen, or acetaminophen was being prescribed Percocet after oral surgery. Took on dose as the anesthetic was starting to wear off and vomited 10 or15 minutes later. That said I understand that there are times when strong pain relievers are needed so a body can get the rest it needs to heal.

It seems really hard to tell if a doctor is really trying to help you or just see how much money he or she can get from your insurance company. My sister in law was once a librarian for a company in the medical industry. What she saw in a few years of employment there completely soured her on traditional western medicine.

[Phonetek]

My only experience with anything stronger than aspirin, ibuprofen, or acetaminophen was being prescribed Percocet after oral surgery. Took on dose as the anesthetic was starting to wear off and vomited 10 or15 minutes later. That said I understand that there are times when strong pain relievers are needed so a body can get the rest it needs to heal.

It seems really hard to tell if a doctor is really trying to help you or just see how much money he or she can get from your insurance company. My sister in law was once a librarian for a company in the medical industry. What she saw in a few years of employment there completely soured her on traditional western medicine.

Yeah I don't put it past them. Wife recently got a gel injection in her knee. It did nothing for her. Next appointment doctor said "There was a study that two years ago that the gel injections don't work." I said "Why the hell did you do it then if you knew it wasn't going to work?" He said "Placebo effect." I said "No, or because you knew insurance would cover it, if they wouldn't then you wouldn't have done it for placebo effect." He quickly changed the subject.

I do hate the games some doctors play. They just want you in and out with a quick fix so they can get to the next patient so they can be in and out so they can go home and collect their money. It's hard to weed them out sometimes so you can find one who takes pride in doing their best for people. That's or world today though.

[boomer]

That's interesting.

Prior to my knee replacement, while we were discussing prolonging my "natural" knee, my two orthopedics discussed a lot of things. I'm a research and experimentation kind of guy and work at a college so I have access to a LOT of info that is behind pay-walls and not accessible to a lot of people - which my docs were surprised at. I can speak at least some of the lingo and understand peer review and how much of things work.

So when we discussed some of the gel injections, I was pleased that they discussed the experimental results (which are mixed - some studies say they work, others say they are no better than placebo) and actually recommended against them. Turns out, with ANY "padding" or "reconstruction" therapies, you must keep completely OFF the knee long enough (weeks at least) for the therapy to take effect and have any benefit. . . which isn't really something we humans can easily do. Sigh.

But I was very pleased that they discussed these with me - especially when I told them I was going to bring stuff TO THEM and then take their recommendations. They're the docs. I'm not. My job is to be as knowledgeable as possible so I can discuss. . .

[Phonetek]

That's interesting.

Prior to my knee replacement, while we were discussing prolonging my "natural" knee, my two orthopedics discussed a lot of things. I'm a research and experimentation kind of guy and work at a college so I have access to a LOT of info that is behind pay-walls and not accessible to a lot of people - which my docs were surprised at. I can speak at least some of the lingo and understand peer review and how much of things work.

So when we discussed some of the gel injections, I was pleased that they discussed the experimental results (which are mixed - some studies say they work, others say they are no better than placebo) and actually recommended against them. Turns out, with ANY "padding" or "reconstruction" therapies, you must keep completely OFF the knee long enough (weeks at least) for the therapy to take effect and have any benefit. . . which isn't really something we humans can easily do. Sigh.

But I was very pleased that they discussed these with me - especially when I told them I was going to bring stuff TO THEM and then take their recommendations. They're the docs. I'm not. My job is to be as knowledgeable as possible so I can discuss. . .

They never once mentioned anything about staying off of it. With placebos they have their place. For hypochondriacs and Munchausen's who think there is a problem when there isn't. When you have documented problems from x-ray and MRI that shows an underlying cause and definitive issue is NOT the time to use them. You don't use them when there is an actual legit treatment to fix the problem.

It's awesome you read up and do your research. I haven't done that for what I'm dealing with. I started all this just because it made sense. It still makes sense. I do know eventually my spine will be out of whack. It's a biological inevitability, life just cause it.

But when a guy says moving things back to where they should be is a "Band Aid" but drugs are a fix, I don't need research, just logic and common sense. Now, if he injects a steroid that would reduce inflammation which CAN be a fix provided what caused it is fixed. Otherwise it's just going to get inflamed again when it wears off hence being a Band Aid. That's where I feel everything else I'm doing will be a fix and not a Band Aid.

I personally just think that he's insulted that people who didn't go to school as long as he did are actually able to do more than he can with non-conventional treatments. Patients should be insulted not the doctors.

Bottom line is, I'm feeling better, sleeping good and that's huge. I'm seeing progress and good results. I think a few in more weeks I'll be in a much better place and hopefully able to hit the lanes soon.
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