Odd rule...

[Phonetek]

I've been told that my son cannot join a league at my new bowling center if he's on his high school league? He also cannot get outside coaching as in anyone on staff or any other certified coach?

His high school league is okay and all, they bowl Monday-Thursday. Monday and Wednesday are practice days and Tuesday and Thursday are meets. As I said in here last season, the coaches aren't actually coaches nor are they even actually bowlers. (At his school)

That being the case the kids aren't getting any practical instruction. They merely get to bowl a lot and against other schools. This year they will be able to go to State if they do welll. So why can they not participate in any outside completive play or instruction?

I would think it could only help as more completive play is good and so is professional instruction. Also the league where I'm at offers scholarship money and additional tournaments throughout the season in addition to qualifying for State.

I'm really on the fence here on what he should do. Should he join one and not the other? If so, which one? Since he starts working at the pro shop tonight he'll officially be an employee which means free instruction from the coaches. I mean, it ashamed to have him miss out on an opportunity either way. Why is this rule a rule since it seems rather impractical, especially in his case.

Incidentally is like to note that there are several kids on the league that address also on his high school league. What happens if they get busted? If perhaps they shoot an honor score or qualified for State on both leagues?

[Phonetek]

One more note I just thought of, the school league does NOT require a USBC membership. Is competing in state not a certified event? If they aren't USBC certified members then how could it be a rule? It seems like apples and oranges to me. Just saying.

[Ryster]

Is this a rule 400 issue where a junior bowler can only maintain junior status by not winning prize money?

In looking at the IL State Junior Tournament rules, it states "High School averages are not sanctioned averages and cannot be accepted." So that makes it sound like high school leagues are not sanctioned which aligns with the school not requiring a USBC membership.

The state tournament is only open to USBC Junior members. Juniors can only keep their Junior status if they do not bowl for money/prizes. The only sanctioned leagues they could bowl on are USBC Junior/Youth leagues, and the average they have on those leagues would be what they use for average verification for states.

[J Anderson]

I've been told that my son cannot join a league at my new bowling center if he's on his high school league? He also cannot get outside coaching as in anyone on staff or any other certified coach?

His high school league is okay and all, they bowl Monday-Thursday. Monday and Wednesday are practice days and Tuesday and Thursday are meets. As I said in here last season, the coaches aren't actually coaches nor are they even actually bowlers. (At his school)

That being the case the kids aren't getting any practical instruction. They merely get to bowl a lot and against other schools. This year they will be able to go to State if they do welll. So why can they not participate in any outside completive play or instruction?

I would think it could only help as more completive play is good and so is professional instruction. Also the league where I'm at offers scholarship money and additional tournaments throughout the season in addition to qualifying for State.

I'm really on the fence here on what he should do. Should he join one and not the other? If so, which one? Since he starts working at the pro shop tonight he'll officially be an employee which means free instruction from the coaches. I mean, it ashamed to have him miss out on an opportunity either way. Why is this rule a rule since it seems rather impractical, especially in his case.

Incidentally is like to note that there are several kids on the league that address also on his high school league. What happens if they get busted? If perhaps they shoot an honor score or qualified for State on both leagues?

Odd is the right word. At the risk of starting something I'd be tempted to ask to see the actual rule.
I'm not quite understanding the bit about no outside coaching. Is this kids from the HS league aren't allowed outside coaching, or kids in the youth league aren't called to get extra coaching?

I think the vast majority of high schoolers that I have coached in Youth League have also bowled for their high schools. Actually since bowling falls just short of qualifying as a varsity sport in Connecticut a number of kids have bowled for other schools if their own school did not have a team. For example A Students from Wright Tech in Stamford was able to bowl with Platt Tech in Milford. One student from Trumbull High was able to bowl for a Parochial high school in the same town.

As for outside coaching, several kids each year will will have their parents pay for lessons from our PSO.

[Phonetek]

From what I've been told at work it's an ISHS rule basically here in Illinois and Michigan🙄

How is a kids supposed to establish a book average this way?

[Phonetek]

Typo.. IHSA

[bowl1820]

I've been told that my son cannot join a league at my new bowling center if he's on his high school league? He also cannot get outside coaching as in anyone on staff or any other certified coach?

The first thing to be addressed here is who said this? Is it the High School League officials saying this or did this come from the house league? I'm assuming this came from the school.



This year they will be able to go to State if they do welll. So why can they not participate in any outside completive play or instruction?

Since they can go to a state competition, I'm going to guess the High school league must be in some state interscholastic organization and it probably has to do with their rules regarding youth participation.

(Possibly Something to do like with a USBC rule 400 type issue where a junior bowler can only maintain junior status by not participating in winning prize money league as stated above.)

As for coaching it's hard to say, I know some rules say you can't have outside coaches during the official practices, games that sort of thing. It all depends on what the High school Org. rules say.

I'd say you need to see the rules themselves and how they are actually worded (Which is something you should do before signing up.)

[bowl1820]

Typo.. IHSA

whoop just seen this update, You need to check their rules thens. Quick look they seem to be USBC bowling so USBC rules.

here's a rule book for IHSA Girls & BoysBowling Manual for Schools and Managers which might have the info.

https://www.ihsa.org/documents/bw/2020-21/school-manual.pdf


Okay taking look there does appear to be rules about this, here's a few excerpts

Understanding the High School Bowling Season page 16

IHSA Season Questions
3Q. When do bowlers have to cease their non-school participa-
tion, competition or involvement with bowling leagues, com-
petition or non-school events?
3A. High School players must cease non-school participation and
competition 7 days after their school engages in its first prac-
tice

Non-school Team Participation Questions (USAB)
1Q. Can a player take private lessons from a bowling instructor
and if so when?
1A. Yes, a bowler can take a private lesson at any time during the
school year, during the season or during summer provided
the person giving the lessons gives lessons to the general
public.
2Q. How is a private lesson defined?
2A. A private lesson is defined as a person receiving instruction
on the skill of the sport or the strategy of the sport with no
more than 2 students from the same high school participating
in any separate given lesson.
3Q. When can a bowler begin his/her involvement with her bowl-
ing leagues?
3A. Only when the high school bowling season is over may a
bowler begin his/her league and non-school involvement


I'd say this all has to do with maintaining junior status.


How is a kids supposed to establish a book average this way?

On the High School league, IHSA appears to be USBC so it would be a USBC Junior average.

If he bowls on "Adult" league in the off season, You would have to make sure to follow the rules to maintain his junior status.

[Phonetek]

Regarding the last part about the average. If the school is ISHA and USBC, why are they not required to be card caring members? Also his average and scores from last school year do not appear on the USBC website. That makes me skeptical.

I would understand that they may not have to pay for membership or dues, it may be included because it's through a school. I would imagine if these were in fact certified through either entity that they would have a card of sort even if it's free?

I did find one loophole though. Apparently what kids are doing who are on the Grand Prix league (non-hs league) who are also on the hs team is pre-bowling each week rather than bowling on Saturday morning. Why that makes a difference I don't know. However by them doing that it allows them to maintain their book average and stay on the league for it's duration. Once school league is over then they can show up on Saturday mornings.

It's all really stupid if you ask me. What do they care how many leagues a kid is on? It's pigeon holding them to either just do the hs stuff or sneak around and all the kids want to do is bowl and get better.

From my understanding a youth would only lose their Junior status of they bowl on an adult league where prize money of any kind is exchanged. They can't even be a pacer if there is so much as mystery pot. It wouldn't make sense to lose Junior status for bowling on another Junior league even during hs league.

Again, these ISHA rules only appear to be in Illinois and Michigan. I think it's ridiculous if that's the case. Geography shouldn't screw with progress. This is all giving me a headache.

[Phonetek]

Another correction... They can bowl on the Saturday morning league IF the prebowl for all the weeks during the hs league. However they have to Prebowl for all those weeks prior to the first day of practice at high School.

I took my son this morning. He bowled the 3 games with league then prevowled for 4 of 8 weeks too. He's got to Prebowl for 4 more weeks tomorrow.🙄 Ridiculous!

[bowl1820]

Regarding the last part about the average. If the school is ISHA and USBC, why are they not required to be card caring members? Also his average and scores from last school year do not appear on the USBC website. That makes me skeptical.

They might not be USBC certified or connected with the IHSA, I don't know. The USBC is just mentioned on the IHSA Homepage. If You and your son want to participate in his High School programs, You should go to them and any relevent Associations and the people involved to get the best possible answers.



I would understand that they may not have to pay for membership or dues, it may be included because it's through a school. I would imagine if these were in fact certified through either entity that they would have a card of sort even if it's free?

I did find one loophole though. Apparently what kids are doing who are on the Grand Prix league (non-hs league) who are also on the hs team is pre-bowling each week rather than bowling on Saturday morning. Why that makes a difference I don't know. However by them doing that it allows them to maintain their book average and stay on the league for it's duration. Once school league is over then they can show up on Saturday mornings.

It's all really stupid if you ask me. What do they care how many leagues a kid is on? It's pigeon holding them to either just do the hs stuff or sneak around and all the kids want to do is bowl and get better.

From my understanding a youth would only lose their Junior status of they bowl on an adult league where prize money of any kind is exchanged. They can't even be a pacer if there is so much as mystery pot. It wouldn't make sense to lose Junior status for bowling on another Junior league even during hs league.

Well not being there, We can only guess. Some of this sounds like conflicting league schedules. Say if the Grand Prix league bowls on Saturday and so does the High School team that's probably going to be a problem.


Again, these ISHA rules only appear to be in Illinois and Michigan. I think it's ridiculous if that's the case. Geography shouldn't screw with progress. This is all giving me a headache.

Since the ISHA only appears to be a State or local regional association and not a "National Organization" it rules only appearing to be in Illinois and Michigan make sense.

Just do your do diligence and ask the School, Association etc. They are the ones that can properly answer these questions.

[Phonetek]

We're just going to play the game and follow the rules. He'll finished prebowling for the league to comply with their dumb guidelines. As far as getting outside coaching... We have 7 coaches that are either bronze or silver level at my disposal. He's GOING to utilize them as much as possible no matter what anyone says. They can bite me. For all anyone knows if they see them, they are talking about work or another bowler.