Any of you still find bowling exciting?

[Phonetek]

Do you look forward to getting on the lanes anymore or is it more of just something to do? I don't know what it is, maybe being at this center and really being in the thick of things, constantly learning new stuff, my son doing well, getting physically better and being around all these enthusiastic kids in these college tournaments?

I look forward to hitting the lanes, I look forward to going to work and even when I'm home I love taking about bowling. Obviously I'm on here and I'm all over the web reading everything I can get my hands on. Am I the only one who pretty much surrounds every aspect of my life and this?

[J Anderson]

For the first 30 years that I bowled it was more social. I bowled with my dad and generally it was just the three games each week and no practice games in between. No doubt there were moments of excitement in a close game or match, or if the team was near the top of the standings going into the stretch but I was there mostly to hang out with Dad and the rest of the team.
I started to work on my game about 12 years ago. Started bowling in more leagues and got into coaching in the youth program. There is still a big part that’s social, but there is definitely more excitement, whether coaching a U-12 team in a USA Bowling regional tournament or testing my skills in the local sport league against some of the best bowlers in the state.

[Ryster]

Bowling is my primary hobby. I do not have the same verve for it that I did 26 years ago. I would classify it as a "something to do once-a-week" kind of thing now. There was a time where I couldn't wait to get to the bowling center to either practice or bowl in leagues (at one point that was a few times a week.) I still love to watch the college tournaments, PBA, and PWBA on TV and online. I listen to bowling podcasts. I keep up with the new ball and equipment releases. I check the Lanetalk App every night to see how people at my bowling center are bowling in their leagues.

I used to love getting new bowling balls. Now I dread it and only buy new stuff if I can get it really cheap on eBay or on closeout. The bowing ball industry is a giant scam.

I am not always excited to go bowling on my league night. There are nights where I could be perfectly happy not going. This attitude became more prevalent after our center was acquired by Bowlero. The family atmosphere went away. Bowlero wants leagues in, done, and then out as soon as possible. There are only a few of the legacy employees remaining, otherwise it is all new faces. The legacy employees are stressed beyond belief and just not themselves these days. The equipment is not being maintained so there are constant lane breakdowns. The facility has a fresh coat of paint and new furniture, but it is not being kept clean simply because they cannot find enough people to hire.

I went in an practiced for the first time in a very long time yesterday morning right when they opened at 11am. There were already 40-50 customers in the center. Lanes 1-33 were in the dark for glow bowling. Lanes 34-48 were fully lit up for the serious practice bowlers and pre-bowlers. I finally checked in, paid for my games, and went to my assigned lane. The carpeting hadn't been vacuumed from the night before and was covered in crumbs, food, etc. The vinyl chairs were covered in greasy/dirty hand prints, so they aren't wiping down the chairs. There was no soap in the soap dispenser in the bathroom (who knows how the kitchen staff is washing their hands properly!) The lanes had been oiled, but it was a totally different condition than league night and was absolutely flooded. The person bowling next to me, who happens to bowl on my league, made a comment that they frequently practice on Sunday mornings and the lanes are always flooded. On the weekends they oil heavily once in the morning and that is it for the entire day. This experience reinforced why I do not come in and practice as much as I used to. In fact, I probably will not be going in to practice again any time soon. I don't mind a challenge, but I also don't want to have to maintain a league arsenal and a practice/open bowling arsenal.

My entire family bowls and we talk about it frequently. But it just doesn't hold the same space in our hearts that it used to.

[RobLV1]

I look forward to the two leagues I bowl more now than ever before. Despite this, I rarely go to practice like I used to. I think that the reason for this is that the bowling center has totally changed it's focus. There used to be leagues every night, most of which filled the entire 60 lane center. Now they have eliminated all of the night leagues in favor of open-play glow bowling at $7 per game. There are still morning and noon leagues, some of them very large, but I wouldn't be surprised if they too are eliminated in the next couple of years. Open bowling for league bowlers has gone up to $4 per game. When I'm not bowling league, I am playing golf if the weather is nice, or playing my guitar. I do miss bowling seriously like I used to, but the state of the game is just too depressing.

[Ryster]

...Now they have eliminated all of the night leagues in favor of open-play glow bowling at $7 per game. There are still morning and noon leagues, some of them very large, but I wouldn't be surprised if they too are eliminated in the next couple of years. Open bowling for league bowlers has gone up to $4 per game... but the state of the game is just too depressing.

This is the direction I see our center going over the next couple of years as well. While I think it is a little presumptuous to assume that you can fill all of your lanes on a weeknight with open bowlers paying $6-$8 per game, I understand the lure of the potential profit in such a plan. Why have 100 bowlers in the center paying $16 for lineage for 3 games and 3 hours of bowling, when you can potentially have 100 bowlers in there paying $7 per game plus $5 for shoe rental, bowl for 1-1.5 hours, then immediately turn the lane to another open bowler also paying that amount? Open bowling for league members is $2.75 per game here. but I expect that to increase as well.

The state of the game is kind of depressing. It is definitely heading in a recreation/arcade game type of direction. It is starting to remind me of miniature golf. Dedicated facilities for it, but more of an entertainment endeavor than a serious sport. League scoring around here on house shots is off the charts. Our center sees several 300 games each week. I remember the days where there would be maybe 1 or 2 per week. Now when someone gets one, it isn't a big deal other than someone grabbing their phone and recording the last 3 shots to send to the bowler so they can post it on social media.

[Phonetek]

I find it kinda sad guys. I do love the use of the word "Verve" Ryster. You don't hear it much anymore. It's sad because it seems to be getting more common for people to feel like you guys do than how I feel.

The worst part about it is that the industry itself seems to be causing it more than the actual sport. I was discussing this with my boss yesterday. It seems that in the 70's the average pro bowlers average was 190 then 210 in the 80's. 300’s were rare and the got pomp and circumstance that was deserved. Today it's old hat and anyone with modicum of dedication can average 210 or shoot 300. It's no big deal.

I can see why people question themselves on what they are doing it for since even honor scores have lost the "Joie de vivre" they once had. This sounds like it could have been a great article for Rob to have written about.

[boatman37]

I find it kinda sad guys. I do love the use of the word "Verve" Ryster. You don't hear it much anymore. It's sad because it seems to be getting more common for people to feel like you guys do than how I feel.

The worst part about it is that the industry itself seems to be causing it more than the actual sport. I was discussing this with my boss yesterday. It seems that in the 70's the average pro bowlers average was 190 then 210 in the 80's. 300’s were rare and the got pomp and circumstance that was deserved. Today it's old hat and anyone with modicum of dedication can average 210 or shoot 300. It's no big deal.

I can see why people question themselves on what they are doing it for since even honor scores have lost the "Joie de vivre" they once had. This sounds like it could have been a great article for Rob to have written about.

I was just talking about this to a guy the other day. When I quit back in 2002 I was bowling on wooden lanes with a Brunswick Cobalt Rhino and averaging 193. I was in a smaller league but high average was 205 and I was about 5th highest average in our league. Back then I rarely missed spares...lol. Now today we have about 4 guys over 220 and me at 195 am maybe 25th highest out of about 80 bowlers. In 2002 if you averaged 200 you were a rockstar. Today you are just a decent league bowler (ala Dick Allen...lol)

[SRB57]

I still look forward to my 2 league nights. I enjoy the challenge even though I know house shots give you help. It is still a challenge as I don't have the ball speed or rev rate I had when I was younger. I see if I can figure out how to get the ball to go through the pins and increase my carry and try to go 30 clean. Steve

[Timmyb]

It's the one day of the week I absolutely look forward to. After the rest of the week spent "adulting", I think I deserve a night off!

[Ryster]

Oil pattern is everything these days. I bowl with someone who, if bowling on our typical house pattern, will shoot a guaranteed 700+. If there is just a slight difference in the pattern their series will always without fail drop to 600-630...and complain about it all night.

[RobLV1]

Oil pattern is everything these days. I bowl with someone who, if bowling on our typical house pattern, will shoot a guaranteed 700+. If there is just a slight difference in the pattern their series will always without fail drop to 600-630...and complain about it all night.

Unless your bowling center changes the pattern weekly, I think that the differences that you are seeing have nothing to do with the oil pattern. Topography can make two lanes that were oiled exactly the same play totally differently. The fact that the USBC stopped using local associations to inspect and certify the lanes two years ago with a vague promise that the National Association will "take care of it" sometime after 2022 is resulting in topographic issues that are totally out of control.

[Ryster]

Unless your bowling center changes the pattern weekly, I think that the differences that you are seeing have nothing to do with the oil pattern. Topography can make two lanes that were oiled exactly the same play totally differently. The fact that the USBC stopped using local associations to inspect and certify the lanes two years ago with a vague promise that the National Association will "take care of it" sometime after 2022 is resulting in topographic issues that are totally out of control.

Our local association is too busy with their "inside politics" and general inefficiencies to even have time to certify lanes. They can barely distribute tournament entry forms other than to post on Facebook to go to their website for forms. We have more dedicated bowlers who aren't even on the Board going around with printed entry forms (that they print themselves at home) trying to recruit teams for association tournaments. It's kind of sad.

Our league is only 8 teams, so we cross the same lanes frequently. Recently, with end of season and position rounds, we bowled on the same pair 2 weeks in a row. The lanes played totally different one week to the next [although the same exact pinsetter/lane breakdowns occurred on the lanes both weeks.] We have been told our center uses the least expensive oil they can find at the time they reorder, and many times it isn't always the same oil. There are also times where they are finishing oiling the lanes just a few minutes before we start bowling, so the lanes don't have a chance to settle before they are used...other times they are able to oil the lanes 30-60 minutes in advance.

Several of the bowlers on our league recently bought new equipment. Most purchased very aggressive, asymmetrical solids because of the increase in oil volume being put down. For the bowlers not in a position to be able to just go buy another ball it has really impacted their scores. They are doing their best to adjust with what they have but are still struggling.

Lane topography is certainly a consideration, but there is more than that going on at our center lately.

[Aslan]

I've definitely lost a lot of excitement for it.

I think from 2014 through 2017 I was watching my average steadily move from the high 160s to the mid-190s. I was learning everything I could about the sport and the equipment. I was getting high quality instruction on a regular basis. And, my health was good. My knee was a struggle...especially if I was practicing 10-12 games or bowling a long tournament...but other than that, I was 25-50 pounds lighter and health was above average. I also had a 6-figure income to support my bowling obsession.

From 2017 through 2022 I've watched that average drop steadily from the mid-190s to the high 170s. My income fell 49%. Even if I could afford good coaching, the quality of coaching available in this area is questionable. And, I developed an Achilles injury in my right leg that I've had to go to physical therapy to deal with...not sure if that's a temporary solution and I'll eventually need surgery or what.

Things are looking up. I got a new job I'm supposed to be starting in February that may allow me to go back to taking lessons again and being in 2 leagues per season.

But, for me...it's all about trying to get to that next level and accomplish that next goal. If I'm making progress and getting better...even if the "dream goal" of someday bowling in the PBA50 is nothing more than a punchline...I'm gonna be excited about bowling! But, if I'm getting worse or not making progress... If I've become just some 170s average bowler that on a bad night shoots a 420 series and on a good night manages to bowl a 620...then I'm not gonna be very excited about bowling and may ultimately re-assess whether I want to go back to some of the hobbies I abandoned to spend so much time bowling (tennis, hockey, taekwondo, golf, running, etc...).

[Phonetek]

Nothing wrong with having a dream about PBA50. I had a chance when I was in TN to try to qualify, unfortunately life got in the way which has happened more than once including multiple bad decisions in the past. Don't give up, you have a much longer way to go as you're still young.

I don't know at this point what "Goals" I have for myself with bowling. Physical issues tend to keep popping up. This is why I'm primarily focused on my son. I do want to get on a league and get re-established and enjoy making and bowling with new teammates and potential friends.

Then likely just get into any tournament I can find moving forward. It's not glamorous but maybe I can just enjoy the competitive nature of it and maybe win some cash to boot?

Nonetheless, I still enjoy just throwing practice, taking and analyzing videos of myself to try to be there OCD person I am to become the best I can be.

[Aslan]

I'm not saying "for sure" that I'd drop bowling if I no longer could improve...but I would definitely re-evaluate things.

I love to bowl...but there are other activities I could be doing that provide a lot more consistent activity...where I'm not taking one shot and then sitting at a table for 10 minutes waiting for my turn to come back up. For example:

- I used to be a decent tennis player in high school. Granted, that was when dinosaurs walked the Earth long ago...but it allows me to hit a ball and get exercise and I wouldn't mind getting back into that if time allowed.

- I played ice hockey from about 1991 until about 2012. Last time I tried to play...I realized I need to really devote myself to getting back into shape and ease myself back into it if I'm gonna try and play again...I don't fall and get back up as well as I used to. But, if I wasn't bowling twice a week....there's a lot of great adult hockey in Michigan and I could get back into that. It's much more contstant activity and great workout.

- I did taekwondo from about 1992-1996...and it was great exercise and really good for flexibility. The problem is that it takes a TON of time commitment and I just never had much free time...much less enough free time if I'm bowling regularly.

- And, while paintball has lost a lot of popularity from back in the 2003-2012 timeframe when I used to play...I could see myself getting back into that as well. One thing I like about bowling is the technical side of the equipment and maintenance...but paintball allows me to do quite a bit more "tinkering" with valves and air lines and o-rings and circuit boards...all kinds of fun stuff like that.

I've kinda fallen in love with bowling...but I need to constantly be getting better and improving. If I get to a point where bowling is "just another thing to take up time and money"...then it suddenly has a LOT of competition.

[Phonetek]

If you're dedicated and getting coaching then there is no reason you should peak and not get better. Unless somehow you become the greatest that ever lived. Keep at it

[Ryster]

I love to bowl...but there are other activities I could be doing that provide a lot more consistent activity...where I'm not taking one shot and then sitting at a table for 10 minutes waiting for my turn to come back up.


This is why I prefer doubles and trios leagues. It is simply intolerable for it to take almost 3 hours to bowl 30 frames. 45 minutes actually bowling and 2 hours standing around/sitting.

[boatman37]

I look forward to going each week except when I'm in a slump. Oddly I seem to bowl my best when I'm not really feeling up to going. After 2 bad weeks in a row (lanes were crap and both teams bowled bad) and after struggling Sunday in the sport shot tournament, then shoveling snow 1/2 the day Monday then putting new brakes on my wifes car Monday night I was sore and didn't really feel like going last night. Then proceeded to bowl a 648 and we won all 3 games.
But I agree with what someone said earlier. I'm going to be 53 in a few weeks and although I'm not too bad physically right now I have 2 bulging discs in my lower back, shoulder impingement, bone spurs and bursistis in my bowling shoulder. I know it's a matter of time before my game starts to go downhill. Maybe 2 years, maybe 5, maybe 20. But at that point I would have to consider giving it up. I'm extremely competitive and if I get to the point I am hurting my team and not having fun then I'd have to consider hanging it up. That's part of the reason I'm so 'obsessed' with getting my average over 200 and hopefully higher. I know my best years are behind me and I have to work extra hard to get better now.

[djp1080]

I look forward to bowling each week.
Previously for several years I'd bowl in two leagues. Senior league in the morning and men's league at night, both on Wednesdays.
I always thought of it as a warm up in the morning and the real league was at night. Of course, my average and highest scores were in the morning even though I seldom feel like I'm awake in the morning sessions.
I kind of miss bowling in the men's league, but it's nice not bowling twice in the same day. Been thinking about joining another league elsewhere, but don't look forward to a longer drive to places 15 or 20 miles farther away.
I'm bowling a bit better this year as my spare shots have improved. Perhaps I'm not leaving lots of washouts or impossible splits.
Look forward to improve my game each time I get out and have made some friends along the way.

[boomer]

I SHOULD have not bowled last night - had just driven 1000 miles the weekend, finishing at 5:00 last night, then unloaded, pushed the beetle into the back, etc. grabbed a bite than drove in and delivered a solid TURD of a performance. . .

But no - I was excited. :) And who else would have run brackets for everyone?

[Aslan]

And who else would have run brackets for everyone?

I've thought about running brackets...especially if I ended up injured and couldn't bowl...just to be in the alley and around the game. Seems like a lot of work and not much reward...but I think it enhances the league night experience for the bowlers that participate.

[Ryster]

Card games and "high game pots" are all that people run in leagues around here. No one ever runs brackets...way too much work and hassle.

[Phonetek]

It's especially a hassle for those who don't win LOL

[boomer]

Actually people are waking up to the fact that brackets give more people a chance to at least money . . . you're only bowling one person at a time and that's luck of the draw! Side pot - you have to beat EVERYBODY. Cards - complete luck. We've had FAR more excitement with my little brackets game going than cards or side pot. I'm to the point of having to limit entries (at their suggestion). They're only $2 brackets - I pocket a buck, first pays $10 and second pays $5.

It's a bit of a hassle, but it's getting a lot smoother as I get things worked out. :)

[Hammer]

I have been bowling for 38 years in leagues. I still love bowling to this day and look forward to league night and practicing at least one day a week. I will be 75 very soon and my body is okay with it and I can make a swing and release and even post my shot. So my balance is still okay for an old guy. I have always been the anchor guy also. Because I am I never look at the score to see how far ahead or behind we are. It puts too much pressure on you then. I still can get high games. On one league day I bowled a 176, 201 and a 203. My average is 159. Good thing I bowled good because my partners were having trouble. My score let us take all three game and the series. I will bowl as long as I can.

[Ryster]

Actually people are waking up to the fact that brackets give more people a chance to at least money . . . you're only bowling one person at a time and that's luck of the draw! Side pot - you have to beat EVERYBODY. Cards - complete luck. We've had FAR more excitement with my little brackets game going than cards or side pot. I'm to the point of having to limit entries (at their suggestion). They're only $2 brackets - I pocket a buck, first pays $10 and second pays $5.

It's a bit of a hassle, but it's getting a lot smoother as I get things worked out. :)

That's another factor of why brackets aren't popular around here. People getting in the side games want the cost of entry to be returned 100%. They tend not to participate in activities where the person running it is keeping a certain amount for themself. The person running the brackets should get something for their trouble, I agree, but most around here don't see it that way.

We had a guy at work that ran a Super Bowl block pool every year. There was an "understanding" that the winner was to tip him some of their winnings as a thank you for running the pool. So if someone won $500 there was an expectation to give $25-$50 of it back to the guy. Some years people would do it, others not. The guy running it would get upset if he didn't get anything from the winner. The person that didn't tip him would simply say that the guy shouldn't profit from the pool. It was the craziest thing.

[boomer]

That's another factor of why brackets aren't popular around here. People getting in the side games want the cost of entry to be returned 100%. They tend not to participate in activities where the person running it is keeping a certain amount for themself. The person running the brackets should get something for their trouble, I agree, but most around here don't see it that way.

We had a guy at work that ran a Super Bowl block pool every year. There was an "understanding" that the winner was to tip him some of their winnings as a thank you for running the pool. So if someone won $500 there was an expectation to give $25-$50 of it back to the guy. Some years people would do it, others not. The guy running it would get upset if he didn't get anything from the winner. The person that didn't tip him would simply say that the guy shouldn't profit from the pool. It was the craziest thing.

I actually asked people if they'd mind - and I typically use it to enter myself which I really only do to fill a spot if needed. It also made it even - 10 and 5 when 2*8=16 . . . every single person was strongly in favor, which I didn't expect but was happy with.

and I do tend to get some tips. Not much, but some - I don't do it for the dinero. I kind of enjoy being the fun moderator! LOL