Friction

[RobLV1]

In years past, bowlers were always looking for ways to increase friction; to get the ball to hook. Modern bowling balls are designed to hook using powerful cores, powerful cover materials, and lots of surface. I truly believe that most league bowlers that I see, as well as the posters that I see here, are still caught up in the fallacy that you need to find more friction to get the ball to hook. As a coach, I can honestly tell you that 90% of the problems that I see with league bowlers come as a result of using balls that are too strong in terms of core, drilled to be stronger yet, and then they add surface to compound the problem. Does this sound familiar?

[boatman37]

I'm 1/2 of what you describe. I look for the dry but use pearls with some shine on them. I think for me the dry gives me a little room for error whereas if I'm n the oil and my speed or accuracy is off a little my ball reacts too soon or too late. Maybe with more surface I would have a little room for error in the oil? Been waiting on an Idol Helios for about a month now but when/if it ever comes I plan to try that in the oil. I could add surface to one of my pearls but want to drill the Helios with a controlled layout where most of my pearls are skid/flippy

[RobLV1]

I'm 1/2 of what you describe. I look for the dry but use pearls with some shine on them. I think for me the dry gives me a little room for error whereas if I'm n the oil and my speed or accuracy is off a little my ball reacts too soon or too late. Maybe with more surface I would have a little room for error in the oil? Been waiting on an Idol Helios for about a month now but when/if it ever comes I plan to try that in the oil. I could add surface to one of my pearls but want to drill the Helios with a controlled layout where most of my pearls are skid/flippy

What most bowlers don't understand is that while a polished ball will skid further through the oil, they will also react more violently to dry areas of the lane. Since many, many house bowlers choose to play much further outside than they should, this means that by using a polished ball, they are creating their own over/under condition. Rather than using polish, try using a 5000 surface to get the extra length without the over-reaction. I have long believed that bowlers should use one, or at max two, layouts to allow them to really use and understand the differences between their bowling balls. For this reason, I'll refrain from commenting on your plan to use a "controlled" layout on your new ball.

[SRB57]

In years past, bowlers were always looking for ways to increase friction; to get the ball to hook. Modern bowling balls are designed to hook using powerful cores, powerful cover materials, and lots of surface. I truly believe that most league bowlers that I see, as well as the posters that I see here, are still caught up in the fallacy that you need to find more friction to get the ball to hook. As a coach, I can honestly tell you that 90% of the problems that I see with league bowlers come as a result of using balls that are too strong in terms of core, drilled to be stronger yet, and then they add surface to compound the problem. Does this sound familiar?

I personally have been using a little more surface on solid covers than in the past and stay in the oil a little more. The house shot I am on can be to dry outside at times and is easier to stay near the shim line. I don't have the ball speed or rev rate anymore to cover a lot of the alley like when I was young which is ok until I don't carry like last night. I have also found out polished stuff can have a over/under reaction but if the lanes are right I can really open up the lane but more often than not it hasn't worked out so been sticking with the solid with surface. Steve

[boatman37]

What most bowlers don't understand is that while a polished ball will skid further through the oil, they will also react more violently to dry areas of the lane. Since many, many house bowlers choose to play much further outside than they should, this means that by using a polished ball, they are creating their own over/under condition. Rather than using polish, try using a 5000 surface to get the extra length without the over-reaction. I have long believed that bowlers should use one, or at max two, layouts to allow them to really use and understand the differences between their bowling balls. For this reason, I'll refrain from commenting on your plan to use a "controlled" layout on your new ball.

I would agree with the polished comment. None of my stuff is polished anymore except my Squatch which I haven't thrown in over a year. My Altered Reality was polished OOB and I used it for about 30 games like that but it is now at 5000 no polish. My Raw Hammer pearl is still OOB and I think is polished but I was just thinking last night about throwing it on the spinner with a slightly worn 3000.

As for layouts, I remember you saying that before about only using 1 or 2 layouts. The only ball I have that I knew the layout on was my Altered Reality as I never knew my PAP with all of the other balls so I have about 8 different layouts now. Still trying to come up with a plan for layouts but my plan is to stick to only 2 layouts. Nights like last night I think a solid with a controlled layout would have worked well. I'm sure others would have worked well too but I either didn't have it or couldn't find it...lol. In hindsight I wish I had tried my Conspiracy solid at 2000 and moved in a little more but it didn't cross my mind until I got home.

But back to your original post...based on my experience I think many think if they want a big hook they need a dull ball. When I left bowling 20 years ago I was throwing a Cobalt Rhino. Nothing hooked huge back then. I came back and saw people hooking the lanes and 'assumed' I needed a dull ball and play the dry part of the lanes, not understanding the 3 phases or burn up, etc. so I went to my PSO and picked a Kingpin solid figuring that would help get me the big hook. Not sure what your demographic was for this post but I find the average league bowler knows nothing of skid, hook, roll, or balls burning up. When they leave a flat 10 it's the lanes fault. So most aren't at the level most of us on here are so have the mindset I did 4 years ago when I bought the dullest balls I could find and if I threw it in the driest part of the lane it hooked more.

[classygranny]

What most bowlers don't understand is that while a polished ball will skid further through the oil, they will also react more violently to dry areas of the lane. Since many, many house bowlers choose to play much further outside than they should, this means that by using a polished ball, they are creating their own over/under condition. Rather than using polish, try using a 5000 surface to get the extra length without the over-reaction. I have long believed that bowlers should use one, or at max two, layouts to allow them to really use and understand the differences between their bowling balls. For this reason, I'll refrain from commenting on your plan to use a "controlled" layout on your new ball.

Interesting. Please help me with my dilemma if you would. Our Bowlero lanes have changed the "brand" of oil and what most of us are seeing is that if you miss (or throw) outside of 8-10 that the balls seem to over react. Inside around 15 is very slick until some of the straighter ball bowlers have absorbed some of the oil and then you may see a little more movement. So the choice is to play somewhere between 10-15 and either straight or some belly to the ball depending on speed and revs.

Since my elbow surgery, I have had to drop in weight. Although my speed and revs are still considered matched, I lean toward the rev dominant. I have two Storm Tropical Surge balls. One is drilled to go a bit longer than the other. Both are polished. Both over react to the outside. Although I don't want to play on the outside I would like a board or two of miss area without the ball crossing and taking out the 7 pin. Which TS would you suggest I go to a 5000 surface on? My other choice is a Twist which hasn't been "replugged" to my new grip, although I wouldn't be opposed to doing that if that would be the better choice. I just need something that will be more controllable in more areas of the lane.

[RobLV1]

Many bowling centers have made changes to either their brand of oil or how they oil. Bowling centers are hurting and often can't get things that they need... the center where I bowl went about three months with a malfunctioning oil machine because they couldn't get replacement parts. Also, since the USBC quit with their three units rule, some centers are leaving the outside part of the lane bone dry. This certainly adds to the potential for over/under. The 5000 surface would work on either Tropical Storm and should probably be put on both. How is the TS drilled to go longer?

[Ryster]

What most bowlers don't understand is that while a polished ball will skid further through the oil, they will also react more violently to dry areas of the lane. Since many, many house bowlers choose to play much further outside than they should, this means that by using a polished ball, they are creating their own over/under condition. Rather than using polish, try using a 5000 surface to get the extra length without the over-reaction. I have long believed that bowlers should use one, or at max two, layouts to allow them to really use and understand the differences between their bowling balls. For this reason, I'll refrain from commenting on your plan to use a "controlled" layout on your new ball.

Someone I bowl with has been going through this. They bought a super strong asymmetrical solid ball, and a lower/mid level symmetrical pearl. Both have the same layout. I am getting really tired of hearing the same comment each week. "How is it that the supposedly less hooking pearl ball hooks more than the stronger solid ball? It makes no sense!!" At one point I looked at them and said "The pearl is reacting faster off the dry. It is hooking later, not more." They looked at me like I had 2 heads, and just said "No. It is hooking more." I just walked away.

[boatman37]

Many bowling centers have made changes to either their brand of oil or how they oil. Bowling centers are hurting and often can't get things that they need... the center where I bowl went about three months with a malfunctioning oil machine because they couldn't get replacement parts. Also, since the USBC quit with their three units rule, some centers are leaving the outside part of the lane bone dry. This certainly adds to the potential for over/under. The 5000 surface would work on either Tropical Storm and should probably be put on both. How is the TS drilled to go longer?

On that note Rob...have you or anyone else heard anything about a bowling pin shortage? I ask cause a girl my wife works with bowls in a league at a crappy place and she said the carry has been horrible cause they can't get new pins. It could just be that this place hasn't replaced their pins in forever since I don't think any of their leagues are sanctioned there

[Ryster]

On that note Rob...have you or anyone else heard anything about a bowling pin shortage? I ask cause a girl my wife works with bowls in a league at a crappy place and she said the carry has been horrible cause they can't get new pins. It could just be that this place hasn't replaced their pins in forever since I don't think any of their leagues are sanctioned there

https://www.nny360.com/communitynews/business/temporary-production-halt-layoffs-at-bowling-pin-manufacturer-qubicaamf-caused-by-supply-chain-issues/article_2dfcfca3-643e-50f3-b1fc-da522ab25425.html

[RobLV1]

Someone I bowl with has been going through this. They bought a super strong asymmetrical solid ball, and a lower/mid level symmetrical pearl. Both have the same layout. I am getting really tired of hearing the same comment each week. "How is it that the supposedly less hooking pearl ball hooks more than the stronger solid ball? It makes no sense!!" At one point I looked at them and said "The pearl is reacting faster off the dry. It is hooking later, not more." They looked at me like I had 2 heads, and just said "No. It is hooking more." I just walked away.

One of the most confusing things about modern bowling is how we define hook. Traditionally, hook has been measured by the number of boards being covered from the letdown point, out to the breakpoint and back to the pocket. The problem with this is that a ball that hooks earlier will cover more boards than balls that hook later. This is why bowlers generally believe that one ball hooks more than another. If, however, you measure hook by the angle of the change of direction, you will see that within the same category of balls (reactive resin, for instance), the change of the angle of direction is totally dependent on the bowlers release. Just understanding and accepting that fact, will do more to help league bowlers to raise their averages than anything else I can think of!

[J Anderson]

On that note Rob...have you or anyone else heard anything about a bowling pin shortage? I ask cause a girl my wife works with bowls in a league at a crappy place and she said the carry has been horrible cause they can't get new pins. It could just be that this place hasn't replaced their pins in forever since I don't think any of their leagues are sanctioned there

On Sunday I was bowling in a tournament at Amity Lanes and overheard someone saying that they have been trying to get new pins for months and were wondering how Nutmeg bowl managed to get a new set.

[Phonetek]

I waited months for new pins at the last place. Here we seem to get what we need faster. I think there is definitely some priority based distribution involved. A larger center with more important stuff going on vs the beer league open bowl type centers.

There is also the "Who you know" and for how long thing too. In addition to who has the money vs who's scraping to get by. There is definitely a shortage but who gets what in when has a lot of politics involved at this time until things get caught up.

[RobLV1]

I find it very interesting that the my main premise for starting this thread, the FACT that one ball does not hook more than another ball, has been virtually ignored and was replaced by bowling centers' inability to get new pins. It kinda seems to me that examining our fascination with trying to improve our bowling by buying new bowling balls, something that we can control, is less important than something that we cannot control.

[Phonetek]

I find it very interesting that the my main premise for starting this thread, the FACT that one ball does not hook more than another ball, has been virtually ignored and was replaced by bowling centers' inability to get new pins.

BOATMAN DID IT! All his fault this time! See what you did now Boaty, Dad's mad! Good thing you're recovering from surgery or you'd be in trooooouble!

In all fairness regarding the original subject, Sport shots seem to be the main reason for buying a bunch of bowling balls. In addition to lane transition that begins extremely fast. The days of bringing one ball or two and adapting are gone.

The hard part is figuring out what to buy to use on x pattern then what to switch to when x pattern changes. Since the transition happens either from carry down or absorbing (two different things) there is no way to know what to use until you know which has happened.

Marketing on bowling balls is very confusing, at least to me. What was believed in the old days regarding balls has evolved where the same thing has a different meaning today.

Back in the day the term "friction" was used to describe tension between two players not bowling ball reaction. It was all about "hook" which now seems to be more appropriately mention when talking about what's on the end of a fishing line.

It's no wonder it's confusing what to buy, what not to, what to use and what not to for the lament. It's just not easy to understand anymore because it's not black and white.

On THS, you can get away with just about any bad choice, any ball and not get punished all that much. On sport, it will make you or break you.

[classygranny]

The 5000 surface would work on either Tropical Storm and should probably be put on both. How is the TS drilled to go longer?

So hoping for some help here. Decided this made a lot of sense to me. Tonight I went to resurface the Tropical Storm, and now I'm in a dilemma.

1. My instructions don't show how to do a 5000 surface. Would I follow the 4000 and then just add the 5000? Or are there different steps? I think my "cheat sheet" is from Storm.

2. I also realized that I have no 5000 pads so I need to order. In the meantime, I surfaced to a 4000. How much difference should I see between the 4000 and 5000?

Also, in answer to the drill, I will tell you what little I know. My PAP is 5 3/8" over and 1/2-1" up (I don't have the exact up figure recorded and so this is to my best memory-I know it wasn't much). I am right handed. Rev rate is 125 and speed averages at 11.

The pink TS has the pin 2" above the fingers and 1/2" right of the center.
The purple TS has the pin 2-1/2" above the fingers and 1-1/2" right of the center.

Thanks!

[RobLV1]

classygranny: There are no rules. Try using a used 4000 pad; it should be very similar to 5000. This is bowling; try different things until something makes YOU happy. LOL

Phonetek: I don't know, I see dozens of league bowlers loading up on bowling balls for a house shot. Today I get to bowl against a high speed bowler who believes that he needs LOTS of friction to get his ball to hook, so he puts a 500 surface on everything!

[boatman37]

classygranny: There are no rules. Try using a used 4000 pad; it should be very similar to 5000. This is bowling; try different things until something makes YOU happy. LOL

Phonetek: I don't know, I see dozens of league bowlers loading up on bowling balls for a house shot. Today I get to bowl against a high speed bowler who believes that he needs LOTS of friction to get his ball to hook, so he puts a 500 surface on everything!

Exactly what I mentioned earler Rob. When I returned from my hiatus and used to wood lanes and pancake blocked urethanes I assumed I need the most friction I could find to get the ball to hook, whether the friction came from the lanes or from the ball, I felt I needed that friction to get hook so I feel it's moer of an inexperience thing.

[Ryster]

Motiv offers the following guide for getting a 5000 grit finish:

500 grit for 15 seconds per section, then
1000 grit for 15 seconds per section, then
2000 grit for 15 seconds per section, then
polish for 30 seconds per section

[Ryster]

classygranny: There are no rules. Try using a used 4000 pad; it should be very similar to 5000. This is bowling; try different things until something makes YOU happy. LOL

Phonetek: I don't know, I see dozens of league bowlers loading up on bowling balls for a house shot. Today I get to bowl against a high speed bowler who believes that he needs LOTS of friction to get his ball to hook, so he puts a 500 surface on everything!

We have people here that take 6-9 balls with them for a house shot. That seems like a recipe for confusion and disaster. I take 4 balls, 3 performance and 1 plastic. I usually end up using just 1 of the performance balls and the plastic ball for spares.

There are also those bowlers that seem to be members of the "ball of the week" club. They get EVERY new ball that comes out. I don't know how they afford it, but I guess if that is what they want to spend their money on more power to them.

We still have the people that throw dull equipment during warm ups to quickly create a track area and then switch to a polished solid/hybrid or pearl when competition starts. Kind of an old school approach I suppose, but seems like overkill for house shots.

[Phonetek]

Phonetek: I don't know, I see dozens of league bowlers loading up on bowling balls for a house shot. Today I get to bowl against a high speed bowler who believes that he needs LOTS of friction to get his ball to hook, so he puts a 500 surface on everything!

It's because nobody REALLY knows what to do. There is so much to the game now, there is so much information required if you want to get to the next level. Problem is you almost need a 6 month class to get a true understanding of what's what. Otherwise, you ask 20 different people you get 20 completely different answers.

The guy with the 500 grit is a perfect example. That's HIS understanding of what's what, is it the correct understanding? Umm... No. Sadly, sanding the crap out of the ball enough it will hook earlier than without sanding it so in his mind that's the fix. When one ball gets lane shine, switch to the next one, why not, he's got 6? The problem is he's firing it like a cannon which that's the problem he should focus on fixing. He's squirting oil on a worn out part on his car to stop the squeak instead of fixing the cause. That's only going to get him so far.

You're fortunate to be one of the few that does understand all the different facets and know how to utilize them correctly. Being on the other side of it Phil Collins described it best as "The land of confusion."

I'm really trying hard to get a grasp on this stuff as are several members here on BB but it's not coming easy. We're grasping at straws trying to understand and making the best guesses we can. Sadly, those guesses are usually wrong. I don't think most of us really get it. I know for sure I don't.

[Ryster]

When it comes to bowling, I have always believed that people tend to make it way harder than it needs to be. "Analysis paralysis". There is a lot to be said for not over-analyzing every aspect of the game and just keeping things simple.

For example, when people talk about moving 1/2 board or 1/4 board, I am thinking "you haven't hit the same board twice yet and you are not at that level to even claim you can precisely and repeatedly hit a 1/4 board difference on the lane...and it is a house shot. 1/4 board doesn't matter!"

Then the bowlers that make a ball change every 5 frames because they can't find the right "look".

Meanwhile, the once-a-week casual bowler using their 10 year old entry level ball going straight up and hitting anywhere between 5 and 10 is watching their ball walk right in to the pocket.

[RobLV1]

What bowlers need to do is to learn to WATCH their ball reaction. It's not so much the result, as how the ball gets there. Is it still hooking as it enters the pocket? Is it losing energy as it enters the pocket? Is it going over/under, missing light once, and high the next time? Does it start to hook, straighten out or wiggle, and then continue to hook? Seeing what the ball is doing will tell you everything you need to know, if you just learn to pay attention... with an open mind!

[SRB57]

We have people here that take 6-9 balls with them for a house shot. That seems like a recipe for confusion and disaster. I take 4 balls, 3 performance and 1 plastic. I usually end up using just 1 of the performance balls and the plastic ball for spares.

There are also those bowlers that seem to be members of the "ball of the week" club. They get EVERY new ball that comes out. I don't know how they afford it, but I guess if that is what they want to spend their money on more power to them.

We still have the people that throw dull equipment during warm ups to quickly create a track area and then switch to a polished solid/hybrid or pearl when competition starts. Kind of an old school approach I suppose, but seems like overkill for house shots.

I am like you 3 performance and 1 plastic. I have guys in my leagues that seem to get a new ball every week and also bring 2 3 ball rollers in with them. 3 is plenty to choose from on a house shot. I get use to what I have and make it work. I will buy a couple of balls a season just because and also will bring out older stuff I have for fun to. Steve

[SRB57]

What bowlers need to do is to learn to WATCH their ball reaction. It's not so much the result, as how the ball gets there. Is it still hooking as it enters the pocket? Is it losing energy as it enters the pocket? Is it going over/under, missing light once, and high the next time? Does it start to hook, straighten out or wiggle, and then continue to hook? Seeing what the ball is doing will tell you everything you need to know, if you just learn to pay attention... with an open mind!

I am with you on that one and at times I miss the transition and pay for it. I watch everyone around me also to see what there balls are doing and what they are leaving. I also watch how my ball goes through the pins to see if I am loosing energy. Steve

[boatman37]

What bowlers need to do is to learn to WATCH their ball reaction. It's not so much the result, as how the ball gets there. Is it still hooking as it enters the pocket? Is it losing energy as it enters the pocket? Is it going over/under, missing light once, and high the next time? Does it start to hook, straighten out or wiggle, and then continue to hook? Seeing what the ball is doing will tell you everything you need to know, if you just learn to pay attention... with an open mind!

I take 3 balls and my plastic. I focus more on where the ball hits the pocket and where it drops off the pin deck. If I see deflection then I either change my line or ball. I wait for confirmation cause maybe I missed my mark or not enough hand, etc.

[RobLV1]

I take 3 balls and my plastic. I focus more on where the ball hits the pocket and where it drops off the pin deck. If I see deflection then I either change my line or ball. I wait for confirmation cause maybe I missed my mark or not enough hand, etc.

Watching where the ball hits the pocket and where it drops off the pin deck will tell you what the ball is doing. Watching the ball get there will tell you WHY!

[Hammer]

In years past, bowlers were always looking for ways to increase friction; to get the ball to hook. Modern bowling balls are designed to hook using powerful cores, powerful cover materials, and lots of surface. I truly believe that most league bowlers that I see, as well as the posters that I see here, are still caught up in the fallacy that you need to find more friction to get the ball to hook. As a coach, I can honestly tell you that 90% of the problems that I see with league bowlers come as a result of using balls that are too strong in terms of core, drilled to be stronger yet, and then they add surface to compound the problem. Does this sound familiar?

So are you saying that after we get a new ball we should never surface it and just keep it clean or surface it when necessary with higher grits like 3000 to 5000? I bought a Raw Hammer ball recently that came from the factory with a 2000 surface. After I used it for quite a few games I hit it with 1500 grit for bowling balls. It seems like this grit works great for me with the speed and rev rate that I have. It has a controlled hook and hits the pocket hard. It doesn't over hook without control.

[J Anderson]

So are you saying that after we get a new ball we should never surface it and just keep it clean or surface it when necessary with higher grits like 3000 to 5000? I bought a Raw Hammer ball recently that came from the factory with a 2000 surface. After I used it for quite a few games I hit it with 1500 grit for bowling balls. It seems like this grit works great for me with the speed and rev rate that I have. It has a controlled hook and hits the pocket hard. It doesn't over hook without control.

I don’t think that’s what Rob is saying at all. Many bowlers buy balls that do not work with the lane conditions they bowl on. They compound the problem by then sanding the ball with coarse grits.

In many other posts Rob has advocated resurfacing new balls before you even try them. This gives you a surface you can recreate as necessary if it works. If it doesn’t you just try different surfaces until you find what works.

[RobLV1]

I don’t think that’s what Rob is saying at all. Many bowlers buy balls that do not work with the lane conditions they bowl on. They compound the problem by then sanding the ball with coarse grits.

In many other posts Rob has advocated resurfacing new balls before you even try them. This gives you a surface you can recreate as necessary if it works. If it doesn’t you just try different surfaces until you find what works.

Correct on both accounts!