Do you need a lot of balls for THS patterns?

[Hammer]

According to ROBLV1 the answer is no. As far as I'm concerned I agree with that. I have used three balls only for a long time. The balls I have now are a Raw Hammer orange/black with a 1500 surface and a urethane Blue Hammer that I don't usually surface and a Columbia plastic ball. All of the balls are 14#. I have been bowling at this center for a long time. So I know how each ball reacts on what the pattern is giving me that day of league bowling. I am fine with staying with just these three ball. My newest one in the Raw Hammer hybrid reactive that I bought a couple months ago. Believe it or not the Raw Hammer replaced my Columbia yellow dot that I bought in 1978. I had it sitting in the closet and decided to try it at league and it worked great. It was 15# and I wanted to drop to a 14# ball because of a slight wrist problem.

The OOB surface on the Raw Hammer was 2000. After I wore that out I decided to put a 1500 surface on it. That matched great with my speed and rev rate. Depending on the pattern sometimes I have to play kind of straight up the boards and other times on can stand with the arch of my slide foot on board 30 throwing out to board 10. There are times when I can use my Blue Hammer for my first ball and the Raw Hammer for picking up pins that I left from the five pin to the ten pin. My plastic ball is used for going after seven pins. I am left handed by the way, So new balls are fine and sometimes you just want a new ball like any bowler.

My Blue Hammer I haven't surfaced it in a long time and I like it that way. I know how it works for me for certain things that I use it for and see no reason to change it. The only one I surface is the Raw Hammer and it always gets a 1500 surface. So for me the three balls that I have are fine and I see no reason to get anymore balls. I know how the ones I have work in our house and I see no reason to change anything other then the surface on the Raw Hammer when it needs it.

[SRB57]

For me on a THS I don't need a lot of different equipment. I recently found my best layout for me and have used it on the last 2 balls I drilled a Roto Grip Gem and Idle Helios. I can use the gem on the fresh and have to get out of it in the second game typically and go to the helios which works. So once you find the best layout and ball choice just execute. I have never use the modern urethane balls yet but see a lot of them being used and may experiment with one. I used a lot of urethane in the 80's and 90's starting with the original black angle. On a house shot it's getting the ball to go through the pins and knowing when to move or change balls during transition. Steve

[Trex]

I started Bowling in 1969 at age 7. From 1969 to 1996 all I ever used was an old black beauty rubber bowling ball & an AMF all star, & an AMF Pro roll classic. I eventually got a galaxy 300 soft polyester bowling ball that i used until 1996. In 1997 I bought my first reactive bowling ball which was a Columbia Boss Pearl. Off of a 150 average with plastic & rubber, I began using the reactive bowling ball and started shooting much higher scores. My previous high game with rubber bowling balls was 278. After getting the reactive bowling balls my 2nd being the original Track Triton Elite, I bowled and won a few tournaments. I eventually bowled my first 300 with a Brunswick Rhino Pro teal. I still have that bowling ball and it still works just fine as long as i keep the surface up.

How ever I did begin to invest into bowling equipment after I stopped smoking due to cancer. I then started spending the money I once used for tobacco on buying bowling balls. Over the next 25 years I would spend in total over $45000 on bowling balls...Testing bowling balls & layouts from every ball company to see what works best for me on THS & Sport shots.

Then the sport shots got tougher & tougher until now I sit with too much invested into bowling equipment that is no longer effective due to the ever changing oil and oil pattern design. Due to this fact, I simply am about to retire from bowling as it is time to give it up when i can no longer get a reactive ball too hook much less anything else.

[Phonetek]

I agree with Rob, why would you need a lot of balls for THS? Your benchmark ball on fresh oil and one maybe two for when the pattern breaks down. It's not going to vary much week to week so why vary the balls? If they work they work.

People who bring two 3 ball totes to THS crack me up. They apparently love to spend money and spend more time fidgeting with balls than they do actually bowling. They generally stink anyway then blame the ball or the lanes.

Sport shot, completely different animal all together. It seems you can never be fully prepared no matter how many balls you bring.

[SRB57]

I agree with Rob, why would you need a lot of balls for THS? Your benchmark ball on fresh oil and one maybe two for when the pattern breaks down. It's not going to vary much week to week so why vary the balls? If they work they work.

People who bring two 3 ball totes to THS crack me up. They apparently love to spend money and spend more time fidgeting with balls than they do actually bowling. They generally stink anyway then blame the ball or the lanes.

Sport shot, completely different animal all together. It seems you can never be fully prepared no matter how many balls you bring.

There are some that drag in two 3 ball rollers then the backpack with shoes and stuff for our THS which has changed the last few weeks without a league bowling ahead of us. I bring in 4 balls and that is confusing enough plus I don't know how they get both bags in in the winter when there is snow on the ground.

On a positive note last night was the last night for my league and finished the season with a 30 clean 730 set and the front ten the last game before a wrap 10 stopped me for a 289 so I was happy. Steve

[Phonetek]

There are some that drag in two 3 ball rollers then the backpack with shoes and stuff for our THS which has changed the last few weeks without a league bowling ahead of us. I bring in 4 balls and that is confusing enough plus I don't know how they get both bags in in the winter when there is snow on the ground.

On a positive note last night was the last night for my league and finished the season with a 30 clean 730 set and the front ten the last game before a wrap 10 stopped me for a 289 so I was happy. Steve

The rollers do make a mess with the snow for sure. We frequently announce to leave them on the carpet away from the settee area because the snow clogs in the wheels and melts all over the floor. Of course we get ignored more often than not.

The guys with backpacks usually have the totes because they don't have shoe or accessory pockets, they only hold balls. The only upside to those is they stack well for storage on a bus and in the paddock area. Basically they are good for travel especially for the college kids and likely the pros. The backpack is for shoes and accessories.

I personally like the standup 3 ball rollers. It pulls easy, holds everything and I have the elastic thing for the handle to hold 4th ball. That's all I ever need. My son has two totes and I hate dragging them in the center, the feel much heavier to me and when I put them down I feel like I'm dragging my knuckles like a gorilla. Plus they flip over easy when you're pulling them.

My son is young and strong, he can deal with that. I'll keep my roller lol.

More on topic, I guess if there has a drastic change to your house shot bringing a 4th ball isn't a biggie. I'm a little surpassed you don't get fresh oil before you bowl though. Especially if it's a certified league. Usually it's in the league contact.

All our leagues get fresh oil as well as a breakdown pair set aside plus a buffer pair between open bowl. Not all centers have enough lanes for that luxury though. Fresh oil is a must.

[SRB57]

The rollers do make a mess with the snow for sure. We frequently announce to leave them on the carpet away from the settee area because the snow clogs in the wheels and melts all over the floor. Of course we get ignored more often than not.

The guys with backpacks usually have the totes because they don't have shoe or accessory pockets, they only hold balls. The only upside to those is they stack well for storage on a bus and in the paddock area. Basically they are good for travel especially for the college kids and likely the pros. The backpack is for shoes and accessories.

I personally like the standup 3 ball rollers. It pulls easy, holds everything and I have the elastic thing for the handle to hold 4th ball. That's all I ever need. My son has two totes and I hate dragging them in the center, the feel much heavier to me and when I put them down I feel like I'm dragging my knuckles like a gorilla. Plus they flip over easy when you're pulling them.

My son is young and strong, he can deal with that. I'll keep my roller lol.

More on topic, I guess if there has a drastic change to your house shot bringing a 4th ball isn't a biggie. I'm a little surpassed you don't get fresh oil before you bowl though. Especially if it's a certified league. Usually it's in the league contact.

All our leagues get fresh oil as well as a breakdown pair set aside plus a buffer pair between open bowl. Not all centers have enough lanes for that luxury though. Fresh oil is a must.

There is fresh oil just seems like there is less volume as there was before. The house takes very good care of the league bowlers and am not complaining just a observation on my part. I could be wrong but just seems I am starting deeper than I was during the earlier part of the season. Steve

[NewToBowling]

I'm still using my Rotogrip Haywire on league night.

[Phonetek]

There is fresh oil just seems like there is less volume as there was before. The house takes very good care of the league bowlers and am not complaining just a observation on my part. I could be wrong but just seems I am starting deeper than I was during the earlier part of the season. Steve

Being that it's spring, humidity and warmer temperature could be playing a factor. I'm not sure where you are from Steve but it could be why you have to play deeper than usual? Just a guess.

[boatman37]

So can someone elaborate on this? I have never really noticed a difference but I texted my buddy the other night telling him how bad I bowled the 2nd set of games for first night of summer league and his response was that you can't use the same ball in summer league? Yeah I know humidity, etc but have never really noticed much difference. Either way my 2nd set issues were caused by no oil on the lanes for whatever reason, wasn't me...this time...lol

[RobLV1]

Some centers change how or how often they oil for their summer schedule. This combined with humidity and temperature changes can cause the lanes to play totally differently than they do during the winter league months. Depending on the part of the country, winds may also kick up during the spring and summer months. This year in Vegas, we've had what seems like two months of wind advisories which, with the desert terrain, results in lot of blowing dust that settles on the lanes and really adds to an over/under ball reaction.

[J Anderson]

Last summer I subbed two weeks in a row in a senior league and averaged about 20 pins less than I had the previous season. The summer before I did a doubles league with my friend Tom. Overall we were both about 10 pins less than the previous season and it seemed like we took turns being lousy, maybe one week where we both bowled decent.

[boatman37]

in tracking my scores i have always been about the same in summer league but haven't bowled a full summer in 2 years, only subbing now

[RobLV1]

Funny how this thread has shifted from "Do you need a lot of balls on a THS" to how the shot changes during the summer.

Please allow me to relate a story about what happened in my league this morning. One of my teammates, a very good bowler when he doesn't trip over his own brain, had a somewhat typical morning. His first game was 249, then he got totally lost on one lane, and finished with a 178. During the third game, he lost his carry on one lane, found it again and finished with a 240. I asked him after we were done why it was that it took him so long to "find" a lane that had changed for him. He replied honestly (there is hope for him yet), that as much as he reminds himself that you have to follow what the lane tells you, it takes him too long to remember that, when you are playing the right line, you don't have to be perfect. Instead he beats himself up for throwing less than perfect shots.

By the way, I shared this story because this bowler used to show up for league on a THS with nine bowling balls. Now he brings three. There is hope for him yet!

[boatman37]

So back to the topography issue.

What would be the answer to shooting on that pair of lanes?

I see the finals will be on the same lanes (9-10). Could prove to be an interesting match.

Also, what does "race to three points" format really mean? If one bowler wins the first two matches, it's over? If so, what happens to the other hour of airtime? I absolutely can't listen to RP fill an hour.

To answer the first question I'd say avoid that area of the lane. TJ seemed to do that pretty well by staying straighter up near the 15 board.

As for the 2nd question if the same bowler wins the first 2 then it's over. If they split then they only bowl the 9th and 10th frame rolloff until there is a winner so they aren't bowling a whole 3rd game

[boatman37]

Funny how this thread has shifted from "Do you need a lot of balls on a THS" to how the shot changes during the summer.

Please allow me to relate a story about what happened in my league this morning. One of my teammates, a very good bowler when he doesn't trip over his own brain, had a somewhat typical morning. His first game was 249, then he got totally lost on one lane, and finished with a 178. During the third game, he lost his carry on one lane, found it again and finished with a 240. I asked him after we were done why it was that it took him so long to "find" a lane that had changed for him. He replied honestly (there is hope for him yet), that as much as he reminds himself that you have to follow what the lane tells you, it takes him too long to remember that, when you are playing the right line, you don't have to be perfect. Instead he beats himself up for throwing less than perfect shots.

By the way, I shared this story because this bowler used to show up for league on a THS with nine bowling balls. Now he brings three. There is hope for him yet!

It takes me too long because I wonder if maybe I missed my mark or something so then I lose another frame to be sure it wasn't me. Then I wonder if I should change balls or move. In the past it was usually a ball change but since I have been more comfortable in the oil I have no problems moving in now

[boatman37]

For you Rob...lol

Watch at the 1:23 mark. Throwing across the middle arrow


https://youtu.be/7aVCfMEZn4Y

[RobLV1]

For you Rob...lol

Watch at the 1:23 mark. Throwing across the middle arrow


https://youtu.be/7aVCfMEZn4Y

The 1:23 mark of what? There's nothing here.

[boatman37]

The 1:23 mark of what? There's nothing here.

you don't see the youtube video?

[RobLV1]

you don't see the youtube video?

Nope!

[boatman37]

Nope!

Try this link > https://youtu.be/7aVCfMEZn4Y

[RobLV1]

Finally saw the video. A couple of comments: First, you keep talking about where you are targeting, and never once mentioned where the ball is at the end of the pattern. Are you aware of the exit point from the end of the pattern? This is what I was talking about in the thread about seeing the lanes from front to back rather from side to side. I didn't see much variation at the end of the pattern, just heard a lot about how tight the lanes were (BTW, I didn't really see that much at all). Also, I don't think your lack of carry has as much to do with the line you are playing or the ball you are using. From what I could see from the one angle on the video, it appears that your timing in very late, and that is what is causing you to hop after release. It's also really limiting your ability to roll the ball rather than throwing it. This lack of power in the roll is keeping you from carrying the corners. IMHO

[boatman37]

Finally saw the video. A couple of comments: First, you keep talking about where you are targeting, and never once mentioned where the ball is at the end of the pattern. Are you aware of the exit point from the end of the pattern? This is what I was talking about in the thread about seeing the lanes from front to back rather from side to side. I didn't see much variation at the end of the pattern, just heard a lot about how tight the lanes were (BTW, I didn't really see that much at all). Also, I don't think your lack of carry has as much to do with the line you are playing or the ball you are using. From what I could see from the one angle on the video, it appears that your timing in very late, and that is what is causing you to hop after release. It's also really limiting your ability to roll the ball rather than throwing it. This lack of power in the roll is keeping you from carrying the corners. IMHO

As to the timing...that girl coach that my wife works with said the same thing. Said my timing looked very late and she thinks that will resolve most of my problems. She said to push away at the start of my first step. I drop the ball straight down. To me it seems like my ball moves as soon as my foot moves but watching the video it seems my ball doesn't move until my 2nd step.
As for the corner pins, I don't typically leave too many of those but in this video I certainly did so 'assumed' it was the ball or my line.
2nd part as to the lanes being tight, I was referring to the pair we bowled league on after this practice game.
Now the next part...where the ball exits the pattern. I know you won't like this answer but I don't look at that...at least I haven't been. Been trying to pay more attention to that recently though. I watch what board it rolls over at the arrows then where the ball exits the pin deck and that's about it. I know 1-2 MPH doesn't seem like much but when I throw mid 16's or higher I have a hard time even seeing where the ball exits the deck. I have been trying to slow it down more to get my speed more in line with my revs. The guy that drilled my Altered Reality is a PBA guy and watched me and gave me that tip so been trying to do that and it is easier to focus more on the ball but I just have never watched the breakpoint enough to notice anything.

Been trying to get with wifes co-worker to get some coaching but haven't been able to get our schedules lined up. I tried to get her to team up with me for summer league but she lives an hour away...lol

[RobLV1]

Two things:

Where your ball exits the pattern is the most important thing for you to notice. If you don't see that, nothing else matters.

I grew up in L.A.. An hour on the road is NOTHING!

[boatman37]

Two things:

Where your ball exits the pattern is the most important thing for you to notice. If you don't see that, nothing else matters.

I grew up in L.A.. An hour on the road is NOTHING!

L.A.? I couldn't do that. I have worked from home for about 6 years now but when I was in the office I had about a 75 minute drive on a good day. There were a few times where it took me 2.5 hours to get home. When I first started I told my wife they drive like idiots. After a few months I told her 'I'm one of those idiots'...lol.

But I have a hard time seeing the end of the pattern, or at least understanding it. Is it the breakpoint? Because the way I used to throw I didn't feel I had a breakpoint (even though I know I did). My ball rolled a perfectly straight line up the 7 board then hooked so since it never arc'd out it was hard to see a breakpoint. But lately I'm throwing more inside and throwing it out so I can see a defined breakpoint better. I assume the breakpoint is what you are referring to?
A guy in my league always throws his first practice ball about 2/3 speed and I never knew why. One day I was watching a youtube video and a guy mentioned he does the same thing. Says it's easier to see the end of the pattern when it's rolling slower.
So why is it important to see where it exits the pattern? That might help me to understand better.

[RobLV1]

Don't get hung up on semantics. Whether it's the break point or the end of the pattern really doesn't matter. Just see where the ball is when it makes the turn toward the pocket. If you can learn to control THAT point, everything else will fall into place. Bowlers want to see where the ball is at the arrows and at the pins... they miss the most important thing; where it is when it makes the turn!

[boatman37]

Don't get hung up on semantics. Whether it's the break point or the end of the pattern really doesn't matter. Just see where the ball is when it makes the turn toward the pocket. If you can learn to control THAT point, everything else will fall into place. Bowlers want to see where the ball is at the arrows and at the pins... they miss the most important thing; where it is when it makes the turn!

Thanks Rob. I'll try to take a look next time I'm out there but in the meantime I'll try to recognize it in my videos too

[J Anderson]

Don't get hung up on semantics. Whether it's the break point or the end of the pattern really doesn't matter. Just see where the ball is when it makes the turn toward the pocket. If you can learn to control THAT point, everything else will fall into place. Bowlers want to see where the ball is at the arrows and at the pins... they miss the most important thing; where it is when it makes the turn!

By some odd coincidence, I spent two practice games Wednesday trying to observe my ball all the way through the pins. As you might guess I could write something down for where the ball crossed the arrows and where it hit the pins. Seeing where it exited the pin deck was probably one shot out of three. If the shot was a big miss I stopped watching when it hit the pins. I also tended to lose focus if it either struck or left a ringing ten pin. Seeing the break point was a complete failure. It may be that there aren’t markings to use as a reference in that area of the lane, or it my be that I was playing a line that was close to parallel to the boards. For what ever reason I wasn’t really seeing what board it was getting out to, nor was I noting how far down the lane it went before starting to hook.
Any suggestions on how to train my brain pick up on where my breakpoint is?

[RobLV1]

By some odd coincidence, I spent two practice games Wednesday trying to observe my ball all the way through the pins. As you might guess I could write something down for where the ball crossed the arrows and where it hit the pins. Seeing where it exited the pin deck was probably one shot out of three. If the shot was a big miss I stopped watching when it hit the pins. I also tended to lose focus if it either struck or left a ringing ten pin. Seeing the break point was a complete failure. It may be that there aren’t markings to use as a reference in that area of the lane, or it my be that I was playing a line that was close to parallel to the boards. For what ever reason I wasn’t really seeing what board it was getting out to, nor was I noting how far down the lane it went before starting to hook.
Any suggestions on how to train my brain pick up on where my breakpoint is?

It's more a matter of forcing yourself to remember to notice. I've had to do this in the opposite direction. For many years now, I've looked at the reflection of the pins on the lane surface when I bowl. I've had to force myself to notice where my ball crosses the arrows even though I don't "aim" there. I do find that some of the most significant differences between individual lanes occur because of topography differences at the breakpoint. The most difficult condition comes when there is a bulge at that spot on one lane and a depression at that spot on the other. If you try to play both lanes the same, you will hit negative topography on the bulge, and positive topography on the depression. As you migrate left as the night progresses, you start to hit positive topography on the bulge, and negative topography on the depression. This can really play with your head as it appears that the two lanes are transitioning in opposite directions!

[boatman37]

I'm kind of like John. Alot to look at in about 2.3 seconds but I'll give it a try. And like he said, no reference marks so kind of hard to 'guesstimate' what board it is on or how far downlane it is

[RobLV1]

I'm kind of like John. Alot to look at in about 2.3 seconds but I'll give it a try. And like he said, no reference marks so kind of hard to 'guesstimate' what board it is on or how far downlane it is

Just like I use the reflections of the pins as an aiming device, you can use them to calibrate where the ball is when it begins to hook. Look for the start of the hook and don't worry about how far it is down the lane.

[boomer]

and I think you're looking for "relative" versus "absolute" - you're no way going to be able to see the exact board 45' down the lane . . . but if you get "I'm at that reflection which is about 10 board-ish and the break point was a bit left of it. . ." then you can base yourself on that. Maybe the vertical hook point was CLOSER than that reflection vs farther away. . .

Yeah - with 2 and a half seconds, you have to strategerize what you look at and remember. As we work on that, we can start to see more things.

[boatman37]

i'll try the pin reflection next time out. sounds do-able....lol