Bowling Ball Surfacing (grit ratings)

[Aslan]

So, I have a ball spinner and all the pads, compounds, and polish.

What perplexes me...is that the compounds are given grit ratings that seem to equate to the pads...yet the balls are alot shinier when using compound.

For example:

I would think that the grit, from lowest to highest would look like this:
180, 240, 360, 500, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000

and the compounds/polishes:
Storm Step 1, Storm Step 2, Royal Compound, Storm Step 3, Polish

And, I would add the compound list to the end of the pad list like this:
180, 240, 360, 500, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, Step 1, Step 2/R. Compound, Step 3, Polish

HOWEVER...the compounds have grit ratings...and if you use those grit ratings...the list looks like this:

180, 240, 360, 500, 800/Step 1, 1000, 1500/Step 2, 2000, R. Compound/Step 3, 3000, 4000, 5000, Polish

This doesn't make much sense to me. When I use an 800 pad, the ball looks like a matte finish. When I use Storm Step 2, it comes out shiny. And how is Storm Step 2 1500 and Royal Compound 2500...when they both look, feel, and smell the same?

According to the 'numbers', my Pyramid Force finished to a Storm Step 2 finish would be at 1500 while my Trident Odyssey is at 3000 (Abralon). Yet, they certainly don't 'look' like the Force has more surface.

Any pro shop guys out there who can shed some light on this?

[J Anderson]

Not a pro shop guy but I have an idea of what may be happening. Abralon and Siaair use a particular scale to label their pads. If I recall correctly it is not exactly the same as scale for regular sandpaper. Polish might use a different scale as well. On further thought I would guess that the grit rating of polish would reflect the ratio of particles to a given volume of polish.

[Aslan]

I tried to go online to find an answer, but any search for surfacing answers seems to direct to CTD sales videos. While I like CTD products, none of the videos answer my question. For example, there are numerous videos about the effects of sanding vs polishing...when the ball makes a turn and the sharpness, etc..

But, I already know all that. I'm looking at compounds (like Storm Step 1, 2, 3)...and they list the grit on the front of the bottle. But, I find it very hard to believe that surfacing a ball to a matte 800 finish is equivalent to surfacing with Storm Step 1 compound. The balls look totally different when you use pads vs compound...so there has to be a difference.

Most every piece of advice or video I've seen says you start surfacing with pads, then can add polish. Okay, duh. You're not gonna polish and then sand...you'd sand off the polish. Polish is different than compound (I think) and pads...because polish generally leaves a "coating" where as sanding pads (and compounds) tend to directly affect the surface. So you wouldn't polish and then sand. But would you use a Step 2 or Roayal compound and then sand with a higher numbered pad?

Maybe I can send a message to someone at Storm, Brunswick, or even CTD and see if they can answer the question directly.

[RobLV1]

After all of these years, you're still trying to over-think everything. Personally I don't like polishes for the simple reason that, even though they increase length, they also increase reactivity to friction. Stick to one set of pads and, if you insist, one polish. Find out what it does for you and find the reaction that works the best for you and stick to it. Simple!

[Aslan]

After all of these years, you're still trying to over-think everything. Personally I don't like polishes for the simple reason that, even though they increase length, they also increase reactivity to friction. Stick to one set of pads and, if you insist, one polish. Find out what it does for you and find the reaction that works the best for you and stick to it. Simple!

I get what you're saying. I'm just trying to figure out the difference between an 800 SiaAir pad and Storm Step 1 800 grit compound. If I ask "what's the difference? They're both 800-grit?" The answers could be:

"Obviously there's no difference. You're not comparing industrial sandpaper to bowling grit finishes...it's 800-grit vs 800-grit...it's the same thing. One is in a $35 bottle that you can likely use on about 50 balls. The other is a pad that'll cost ya just shy of 10 bucks...but won't last as long as the bottle of compound. The only difference in "shine" is because you're running it on the faster HP when you use compound...so it looks 'shiner'...but it's the same 800-grit surface."

The OTHER answer...just as simple and to the point:

"Of course there's a difference! Surface with 800 SiaAir and look at the result. It's primarily a matte finish. Now surface with Step 1. It's 'shinier'."

And the reason behind the question is, if I have a ball and I use a 3000-pad...but I want to even out the line...I try to end with 4000 instead. But, lets say I want even MORE length...would I finish with Step 1 instead? Or would that result in a ball that hooks earlier? Maybe a more angular motion?

I was trying to decide if I should go from 4000 to Step 1...or (since Step 1 = 800), start with Step 1 and then finish with 4000.

It's not a question of "polish"...like you said, that's going to add distance but more reaction to the dry at the breakpoint. I'm asking about "compounds" versus pads...polish is a whole different animal. Is it possible to have a ball that is at a very low grit (800), yet still "shiny'? Or does the fact that its shiny mean, by default, its going to give you more length than a smooth, matte 4000 finish?

I was all set to take my Odyssey to a Step 1/Step 2/4000 finish. But, now I think maybe I'll take it to a 500/Step 1/Step 2 finish instead. Does that mean I've added some length (now it's shinier) or did I take away length because I ended with a 1500-grit compound (vs a 4000 grit pad)?

[Timmyb]

Stick to one set of pads and, if you insist, one polish. Find out what it does for you and find the reaction that works the best for you and stick to it. Simple!

Agreed. I've used one cleaner at the lanes now for 5 years. Only one bottle of polish (Motiv) in my work area For the last 5 years. It makes my choices so much easier, and since I'm prone to over-thinking in the first place, my ball maintenance regimen is basically one-stop shopping. On top of that, it works. K.I.S.S.

[boomer]

Aslan

there is a difference between polish (automotive) and polish (bowling ball) - I'm assuming you know this, but just so all cards are on the table, we NEVER use "polish" on our balls as that introduces a wax surface and is bad. I'm assuming you know this but I'm just establishing it. :)

From what I've seen, the liquid compounds are actually equivalent to about double their grit in dry pads, but close to their grit in wet pads. I always do wet and have found that 1500 on a wet abralon (and I'm talking significantly wet) is close to 800 in the liquid (I used to use 3M).

[Aslan]

Aslan

there is a difference between polish (automotive) and polish (bowling ball) - I'm assuming you know this, but just so all cards are on the table, we NEVER use "polish" on our balls as that introduces a wax surface and is bad. I'm assuming you know this but I'm just establishing it. :)

From what I've seen, the liquid compounds are actually equivalent to about double their grit in dry pads, but close to their grit in wet pads. I always do wet and have found that 1500 on a wet abralon (and I'm talking significantly wet) is close to 800 in the liquid (I used to use 3M).

Well, I'm not so sure automotive and bowling polishes are as different as you think. Trucut actually utilizes Turtle Wax in their polish...so I doubt Turtle Wax made a completely different type of polish just for bowling balls. Also, I have an automotive resin polish...literally the exact same feel, smell, consistency as bowling polish and even Storm Step 3 compound. The only difference is the price. A tiny bottle of Storm polish costs about half what a resin polish costs for a bottle 4-8 times as large.

But, the point wasn't polishes (per se).

I also wet sand...and it certainly creates a more uniform and shinier appearance than dry sanding. Dry sanding is not only more hazardous (breathing), but tends to really just scratch the heck out of the surface. Wet sanding provides a more "even" sanding result.

And there is the dilemma. If I wet sand to 4000...then use Step 1 compound (gritty, greenish paste), am I know taking the ball back down to 800? Step 1 says it is 800 grit on the front of the bottle. It seems shinier with Step 1 than 800 SiaAir wet sanded.

I also read somewhere that the compounds create a surface that isn't as course as the grit on the bottle. For example, Step 1 (800) results in a 1200 surface (vs 800). Still, if I want a 3000 or 4000 surface...adding compound at the end is going to bring that surface "down", not "up" if compounds are simply liquid sanding pads.

I dunno. It's interesting. I'd like to experiment with it, but I can't afford a $700-$6,000 roughness tester just to satisfy my curioisity.

[Aslan]

I got an answer from Storm. It wasn't 'quite' the answer to the question, but it sort of confirmed my theory.

The response was that 800-grit sanding pads and Storm Step 1 (800-grit on the bottle label) are not the same thing. The compounds (and polishes for that matter) contain a mixture of grit and polish. Thats why a ball surfaced to 800-grit using a sanding pad will be (duller) than a ball finished to Step 1...even though the "grit" is the same.

There's a website (I can't remember where) that gave the rough conversions of what surfaces you actually end up with when using compounds:

Step 1 (800) = 1280
Step 2 (1500) = 2400
Brunswick Royal Compound (2500) = 4000
Step 3 (2500) = 4000
Resin Polish (500*) = ?

I don't know how accurate those numbers are given that Storm Step 2 and Royal Compound are nearly identical (color, smell, consistency, etc...) and Storm Step 3 very similar to an automotive resin polish (smell, consistency, color, etc...). I would definitely say Royal Compound is much closer to Step 2 than Step 3.And I don't have the conversion from automotive grits to bowling grits...so I don't know what the ultimate grit is. It's gotta be > 3500...it leaves the ball shinier than Storm Step 3 and adds noticeable length to the shot.

So, that kinda answers the question I had. It wasn't as high quality of an answer as Bowl1820 could give...but we'll try to do the best we can.