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dougb
09-11-2009, 12:19 AM
In the last few weeks, I've had my first few experiences with carry down, as I've had the opportunity to bowl on freshly oiled lanes (I'm used to playing second shift leagues).

The first few games no problem getting to the pocket, but I guess I'm pushing the oil down as the ball stops moving on the backend, forcing me to move right and move my target left. Today I was throwing it almost straight across the third arrow to the pocket. I assume that's the right adjustment?

It's been interesting to see which balls in my arsenal respond better to these conditions. So far the Hy-Road stands out (1500 polished), followed closely by a rico-drilled Brunswick BVP Wizard (800 polished) and my Columbia 300 Rival (4000 abralon). I haven't tried my Lane #1 Agent Orange, which at 500 grit is made for heavy oil.

Any thoughts and tips on how to deal with carry down, whether lane adjustments or equipment changes, are appreciated.

JaxBowlingGuy
09-11-2009, 12:27 AM
sanded solids... get the ball into a roll before it hits the carry down.. But it depends on how the heads are playing as well... If they are burnt up then you will have to go to a pearl or something with a little polish but yet still has some surface to it.. This is what works for me

Stormed1
09-12-2009, 01:06 AM
or find something particle pearl

JaxBowlingGuy
09-12-2009, 01:08 AM
or find something particle pearl

I love particle pearls.. The X-Factor Ace, Pyro, Shift.

aussiedave
01-30-2013, 05:26 PM
In the last few weeks, I've had my first few experiences with carry down, as I've had the opportunity to bowl on freshly oiled lanes (I'm used to playing second shift leagues).

The first few games no problem getting to the pocket, but I guess I'm pushing the oil down as the ball stops moving on the backend, forcing me to move right and move my target left. Today I was throwing it almost straight across the third arrow to the pocket. I assume that's the right adjustment?

It's been interesting to see which balls in my arsenal respond better to these conditions. So far the Hy-Road stands out (1500 polished), followed closely by a rico-drilled Brunswick BVP Wizard (800 polished) and my Columbia 300 Rival (4000 abralon). I haven't tried my Lane #1 Agent Orange, which at 500 grit is made for heavy oil.

Any thoughts and tips on how to deal with carry down, whether lane adjustments or equipment changes, are appreciated.
A friend of mine said my ball doesn't have any carry. It is a urethane ball which I want as I dont have a lot of pace and want a more consistent arc, so I know it ain't gonna hook much and will go straighter once it hits oil. Is my friend strictly speaking of the oil or is he referring to hitting power or something else possibly?
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billf
01-30-2013, 06:58 PM
Wow, talk about dredging up an old thread!

Carry is usually referring to pin action. Urethane balls at low speeds are notorious for this. To combat it you just have to be very precise with targeting.

aussiedave
01-30-2013, 07:36 PM
Wow, talk about dredging up an old thread!

Carry is usually referring to pin action. Urethane balls at low speeds are notorious for this. To combat it you just have to be very precise with targeting.
Yeah sorry about that - didn't think it was worth a whole thread just to ask one short question.
Thanks for your answer btw - you are saying urethane doesn't get the same pin action?
I also use a blue hammer which is said to hit "like a truck" - so would that offset the difference?
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billf
01-30-2013, 07:51 PM
I don't have any proof other than my own use with urethane but the ball hits hard but the pins don't seem to fly like they do with reactive resin.

The question was totally legit. What got me was reading the posts and thinking "wow those are some old balls". Then I saw the date and it clicked. I was actually surprised how few replies there were for this thread.

aussiedave
01-30-2013, 08:24 PM
I don't have any proof other than my own use with urethane but the ball hits hard but the pins don't seem to fly like they do with reactive resin.

The question was totally legit. What got me was reading the posts and thinking "wow those are some old balls". Then I saw the date and it clicked. I was actually surprised how few replies there were for this thread.
You've got me to thinking about the urethane vs resin issue - what do you think of a Brunswick Slingshot? I am thinking of this one as it is one of the most popular entry level balls out there and reads well for me as I only bowl around the 13 m.p.h. mark and is inexpensive. You may have a better suggestion?
(I have been bowling for a few years - right handed 3/4 stroker)
Thanks.
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billf
01-30-2013, 08:34 PM
The Slingshot would be a good choice as would the Cyclone.

ssclary
01-30-2013, 09:27 PM
My experience with my own urethane(new blue hammer, original black hammer and seismic desperado LE), seems that they do hit hard and I get some really solid strikes that clear all the pins of the deck. That being said I don't get the crazy pin action with pins helicoptering around and wiping out other pins, like my buddy that only throws reactive resin.

aussiedave
01-30-2013, 10:08 PM
My experience with my own urethane(new blue hammer, original black hammer and seismic desperado LE), seems that they do hit hard and I get some really solid strikes that clear all the pins of the deck. That being said I don't get the crazy pin action with pins helicoptering around and wiping out other pins, like my buddy that only throws reactive resin.
I think you are right - I use urethane exclusively and find that messengers are rare and that the strikes are usually clean with no spinners on the deck like you say - and it's not necessarily pure pace that generates the messengers either as my team mate bowls slower than me and gets them with his resin Track 300C fairly regularly.
Got me thinking now!
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GeoLes
01-30-2013, 10:58 PM
Ya gotta play around with stuff.

I start with 3-1 adjustment (move 3 boards left, throw 1 board right) and move back to original spot when necessary. Sometimes more early roll (cupped release), or more slide (less cuuped release). If that fails, I go less agressive on the revs with more outslide line-usually coupled with a slower delivery to give the ball time to "bite".

Practice on lanes by taking a wrong ball to practice sesson an try to make it work.

75lockwood
01-30-2013, 11:06 PM
On the topic of carry down:

there is a difference between wood and synthetic lanes when it comes to oil displacement correct? i would think wood lanes would be more apt to carry oil down where as synthetic would push to the side. any information on this?

aussiedave
01-31-2013, 05:17 AM
On the topic of carry down:

there is a difference between wood and synthetic lanes when it comes to oil displacement correct? i would think wood lanes would be more apt to carry oil down where as synthetic would push to the side. any information on this?
You may be right - I think that wood lanes will dry out quicker as well, depending on the condition of the lanes themselves, like how long since they were resurfaced, etc,.
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75lockwood
01-31-2013, 08:04 AM
You may be right - I think that wood lanes will dry out quicker as well, depending on the condition of the lanes themselves, like how long since they were resurfaced, etc,.
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my thinking was that a synthetic surface is completely flat and only appears to be made up of boards where as a wooden surface would be uneven with channels and certain boards would be higher or lower than the one's beside it, creating channels where the oil would only be able to move down as apposed to off the the sides....

ssclary
01-31-2013, 08:46 AM
Questions:

Carry down is the effect from oil being carried/pushed further down the lane?

What happens to the lane condition when this happens? Changes the breakpoint?

Does one type of ball cover cause carry down to happen quicker?

Urethane doesn't soak up oil just picks up and drops it off?

Resin just soaks oil up?

Thanks in advance.

ecub
01-31-2013, 01:19 PM
Carry down is the effect from oil being carried/pushed further down the lane?
Yes


What happens to the lane condition when this happens? Changes the breakpoint?
Yes


Does one type of ball cover cause carry down to happen quicker?
Urethane/Plastic, polished balls, and unmaintained bowling balls.


Urethane doesn't soak up oil just picks up and drops it off?
Doesn't pick up the oil, just pushes it down.


Resin just soaks oil up?
Resin, unpolished balls that are maintained properly will soak up oil. Polished balls don't soak up oil as much. Resin balls are like sponges and will soak up to a point. This is where it's necessary to remove the oil from the ball after certain number of games.

Tampabaybob
02-01-2013, 09:03 PM
Lots of ideas on carry down but Lockwood hit the nail on the head. On synthetic lanes, with these new balls, the oil is pushed aside as opposed to being carried down the lane. What you're experiencing is the oil drying out in your track, so when you move right or left you're now moving into oil again. The trick here is to try and find the ridge of the oil.

One of the best articles you can read on the subject was done by Joe Slowinski in Bowling This Month. Here's the link to it. Let me know your thoughts after you read it.

http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinski_oct_for_slowinski.pdf

J Anderson
02-01-2013, 11:16 PM
my thinking was that a synthetic surface is completely flat and only appears to be made up of boards where as a wooden surface would be uneven with channels and certain boards would be higher or lower than the one's beside it, creating channels where the oil would only be able to move down as apposed to off the the sides....

Nothing is completely flat. All USBC certified lanes are flat and level within certain tolerances, measured in thousandths of an inch, at the time of certification.

Wood lanes are constructed so that each board is interlocked with the adjacent boards. While extreme changes in humidity could cause the lane to go out of spec, under normal circumstances they stay flat. The fact that most bowlers are right handed leads to more wear on the lane surface around tenth board. Eventually this requires the lanes to be resurfaced to bring them back into compliance.

I'm sure that this extra wear on the right side has some effect on synthetic lanes. I don't know what that effect is, whether it changes the surface texture of the lane or causes an actual low spot as with a wood lane.

Tampabaybob
02-03-2013, 03:53 PM
Nothing is completely flat. All USBC certified lanes are flat and level within certain tolerances, measured in thousandths of an inch, at the time of certification.

Wood lanes are constructed so that each board is interlocked with the adjacent boards. While extreme changes in humidity could cause the lane to go out of spec, under normal circumstances they stay flat. The fact that most bowlers are right handed leads to more wear on the lane surface around tenth board. Eventually this requires the lanes to be resurfaced to bring them back into compliance.

I'm sure that this extra wear on the right side has some effect on synthetic lanes. I don't know what that effect is, whether it changes the surface texture of the lane or causes an actual low spot as with a wood lane.

John, you're correct in assuming that even synthetics eventually will show some wear. There was just an article somewhere in one of the magazines about that. Of course some areas of the lane will always get more usage than others. But they're still a lot better than the old wood lanes. It was very expensive to resurface every few years and some houses used to wait too long and by then the shot would be totally screwed up.

billf
02-03-2013, 04:05 PM
I have to disagree slightly on the urethane not taking oil. My Natural will come back dripping at times and still needs to be cleaned (de-oiled). It's just not as often.

ecub
02-03-2013, 08:27 PM
I have the Natural Pearl. The oil isn't absorbed though. It just remains on the surface.

Tampabaybob
02-13-2013, 11:15 AM
You've got me to thinking about the urethane vs resin issue - what do you think of a Brunswick Slingshot? I am thinking of this one as it is one of the most popular entry level balls out there and reads well for me as I only bowl around the 13 m.p.h. mark and is inexpensive. You may have a better suggestion?
(I have been bowling for a few years - right handed 3/4 stroker)
Thanks.
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Dave, the slingshot, made by Brunswick is a great ball for beginning and intermediate bowlers. It is not a urethane ball though, it's a reactive resin. i have recommended this ball to many people over the last couple of years with great success. It's just aggressive enough for someone to get a good roll out of and you can't beat the price.

bowl1820
02-13-2013, 12:57 PM
I have to disagree slightly on the urethane not taking oil. My Natural will come back dripping at times and still needs to be cleaned (de-oiled). It's just not as often.

I have to agree, urethane balls absorb oil. In the years I've been bowling, I've seen plenty of urethane balls sweat oil. You leave one out in a hot car and pull it out of the bag and it would drip.

Plastic will absorb oil, just look at the original clear wolf ball. They would get cloudy and discolor do to oil absorption.

The thing with urethane and plastic is they just don't absorb it as fast as resin does. Bowlers don't keep and use balls as long as they use to. And if you follow a good cleaning regimen on your resin balls and use the same regimen on a urethane ball you would probability never much if any oil in the cover of it.

Mike White
02-14-2013, 02:48 AM
All balls will pick up oil.

A flaring ball will redistribute a very small amount of the oil in the back end at the points where the "bow tie" crosses.

Non flaring balls (usually Plastic and Urethane) will redistribute a larger amount of the oil.

I would expect that in Slowinski's experiment, the bowlers were using flaring balls.

GeoLes
02-20-2013, 04:51 PM
Oil pushed aside? I never thought of it, but that makes pefect sense and explains why a 3-1 adjustment works. move target 1 board right to get off the oil-displaced board. Move 2-3 boards left to adjust entry angle needed to maintain strike zone.