Generic Drilling VS Drilling Based on PAP

[Drano]

What's the different in reaction when a bowling ball is drilled based on your PAP vs being drilled randomly pin-up or something similar?

What do you get out of drilling it based on PAP?

[Graaille]

Generic drillings are fine for the beginning/intermediate bowler. For those who are consistant enough to have a PAP, and can pay attention to ballpath/reaction, a drilling based on PAP can allow for drilling a ball for a predictable reaction.

[Stormed1]

As stated above they aare fine for beginners etc. But critical as bowlers become more advanced ad consistant.. An exampleis Ebonites generic drilling for the one sefies. I have on costomer that wound end up with a 6 x 5 drilling with that layout. nother who would end up 3 3/8 x 2 1/5. Would these balls react the same? Not even close!The more complex the core the more important layout becomes. But all that considered cover and surface prep is still the major factor in ball reaction

[123seeyah]

i agree. for beginners it will be of minimal effect since they'll probably be drilling a plastic ball or an entry ball which we know has very little RG differential so drilling a ball without knowing the PAP would not be much of a problem.

consider this, a bowler with 5 1/2" over PAP(assume that this is unknown to bowler and driller) so driller might consider a more general 4" PAP

drilling a ball with a PIN-to-PAP distance of 4.5". a 4.5" distance would actually be 6" PIN-to-PAP distance here considering the driller assumed a 4" PAP opposed to the actual 5 1/2" PAP

imagine what would be the effect on:
a. a beginner having it drilled in a plastic ball or an entry ball i.e Tropical Storm
b. a more advanced player having it drilled in a more agressive ball i.e Virtual Gravity

i know it's not that much but a 4.5" PIN to PAP on a virtual gravity would react way differently than a 6" PIN to PAP

[Strike Domination]

i agree. for beginners it will be of minimal effect since they'll probably be drilling a plastic ball or an entry ball which we know has very little RG differential so drilling a ball without knowing the PAP would not be much of a problem.

consider this, a bowler with 5 1/2" over PAP(assume that this is unknown to bowler and driller) so driller might consider a more general 4" PAP

drilling a ball with a PIN-to-PAP distance of 4.5". a 4.5" distance would actually be 6" PIN-to-PAP distance here considering the driller assumed a 4" PAP opposed to the actual 5 1/2" PAP

imagine what would be the effect on:
a. a beginner having it drilled in a plastic ball or an entry ball i.e Tropical Storm
b. a more advanced player having it drilled in a more agressive ball i.e Virtual Gravity

i know it's not that much but a 4.5" PIN to PAP on a virtual gravity would react way differently than a 6" PIN to PAP
Your information is mostly correct, but I think there's a misconception. A PAP of 4" and one of 5 1/2" over doesn't mean the difference between the two bowlers with the same "pin position" will be 1 1/2". For example, I don't believe 4 1/2" pin under ring finger for the 4" PAP means it will be 6" for the 5 1/2" PAP. It will probably be close, depending on vertical measrement of the PAP as well, but not exact. It will be less, probably around 1/4".

I understand the point you were trying to make, just thought I would clarify that. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[123seeyah]

@SD

sorry for that. i forgot to say a 4.5" PIN-to-PAP 12 o'clock layout

if it was the layout you'll end up with 5.87" PIN-to-PAP with the 5 1/2" over PAP compared to 4.5" PIN-to-PAP on a 4" PAP

solved this using pythagorean theorem

I\
I \
I_\
(drawn not to scale)
with a 4.5" PIN-to-PAP and 4" PAP(which the driller has assumed), you can calculate for the vertical distance which is approximately 2.06"

having the 2.06" as constant because the PAP is 4" (assumed) and 5 1/2" (actual), you can solve for the hypotenuse(PIN-to-PAP) with the actual PAP(5 1/2"). you'll end up with 5.87" rounded to 6"

[Stormed1]

It is truly amazing at the lack of knowledge that still exists with some drillers. Even though manufacturers seminars discuss "best' drilling for their equipment and make strong points about mass bias location on asymetrical equipment. We have one shop in the area still uses pin and cg on an asym ball. i can't count the number of balls i have plugged that they drilled and don't work. There is another shop that drills 90% of the balls pin under because that what works for nim, Unless it's for a beginner i drill every ball off teir pap. It's the only way to maximize the balls performance. If the PAP is not known ( such as a first tip drill) ball manufacturers recomend using a generic pap of 5 over and 1 up

[poflobo]

Now y'all have got me curious... the two used balls I have, I just had the thumb redrilled. Hmmm. So , from what I am picking up, The pin may not be placed in the proper location, because my PAP is probably different from the guy I bought it from. Well, back to the "Study Hall".:rolleyes:

[Graaille]

Now y'all have got me curious... the two used balls I have, I just had the thumb redrilled. Hmmm. So , from what I am picking up, The pin may not be placed in the proper location, because my PAP is probably different from the guy I bought it from. Well, back to the "Study Hall".:rolleyes:

As long as the pin is on the ball - it's in the right position ;) Seriously tho, many people make quite a bit over a pin being 3-3/8ths away from their PAP vs. 3-3/4th's vs. 4 inches - and say that they can see a major change between the three drillings. Well if they're an exempt player on the PBA, I'll believe them. However if they're king of their own THS league (who complain if the volume of oil isn't to their liking - or heaven forbid a different pattern altogether is put out) - I'm less likely to believe that they can detect the difference between a pin being off by a half inch vs. dry heads vs. dealing w/carrydown.

I'll gladly be proven wrong, but most people know (generally) where a good pin position is for them whether they know their PAP or not. Furthermore, very good bowlers can make a ball work no matter where the pin falls in relation to their PAP. Two bowlers may have the exact same PAP, but the ball will react differently if they bowl on two different lane surfaces, have two different speeds, and/or two different rev rates.

And if this post doesn't make a whole lot of sense - my pain meds are wearing off and the icepick is slowly sinking back thru my eyesocket - so read the intent instead of the exact wording please.

[JAnderson]

To take the previous posts a step further, until a bowler learns and understands how to make good adjustments to lane conditions, worrying about ball layouts is of no benefit to that bowler. Again, understanding is key. (For a righty) "Move left when the lanes hook more" is not understanding. If the bowler can not articulate why that move is made, that bowler will likely not be able to understand the physics and theories behind core dynamics of modern bowling equipment. For these bowlers, a "generic" layout is all they need until they've progressed further.

That's not to say pro-shop operators shouldn't take the time to observe a client bowler on the lanes whenever possible and tailor the ball layout appropriately. If that isn't an option, the bowler can always borrow a video camera and take video to the pro shop.

Layouts and the physics involved are complex beasts too often over-simplified.

To fill in a couple of the holes in previous posts, Pin to PAP (Positive Axis Point) distance is the most important factor in a ball layout. However, it is not accurate to say that - everything else being equal - there will be a "huge difference" in ball motion if one ball - say a Hammer Sauce - is drilled with a 5 inch Pin to PAP distance and another Hammer Sauce is drilled with a 1 inch Pin to PAP distance. In terms of pure physics, it depends on the Rg (Radius of gyration) differential of the ball in question. Rg differential is often just referred to as "differential" or "diff". Balls with a small differential, say less than .020, will show less variation in ball movement with variation in pin position (as related to Pin to PAP distance). For instance, a plastic ball with a pancake (low differential) weight block: move that pin around all you want, you're not going to change the ball motion except minutely. Balls with larger differential, more than .040, will show more variance in motion with smaller changes in pin position related to PAP.

Rg Differential translates to flare potential. Pin to PAP distance is what determines how much of that potential is used.

For my advanced readers, you may note that I make a distinction regarding "changes in pin position related to PAP". That's because one must understand that putting holes in a bowling ball to the degree where core material is removed changes the shape and dynamics of the core. This is not a simple "drill out the middle of the core and it has a higher rg diff" (aka "pin down") or "drill off an end and it has a lower rg diff" (aka "pin up"). The reason why it isn't that simple is because many balls produced today have multi-density cores or asymmetric cores with spokes or arms etc. Drilling out the "middle" of a core with a low-density center and one high-density spoke isn't going to change ball motion as much as drilling out that high-density spoke and drilling "pin down" can actually make the ball go longer in that case instead of hooking sooner.

[Stormed1]

Pin to PAP determines the flare potential of the ball. The #1 factor in ball reaction is coverstoc. Both composition and surface prep.As an example take the Fast, Furious and the natural. All 3 use the same core but 3 different covers. There is a major difference in reaction of the 3 balls with the same drill on them. The"average" bowler, whether they average 120 or 220 cannot tell the difference between a 3 3/8 pin and a 3 3/4 because it's minimal. The main reason you drill off the PAP is to be able to create a desired reaction shape to try and match the bowler. Layout affects the points on the lane where the "skid,hook and roll " occur

[JAnderson]

Pin to PAP determines the flare potential of the ball.

Core weight distribution - namely the variance between the core's low Rg and high Rg - determines flare potential. That's why balls, before they are drilled, have a listed flare potential. The pin to PAP distance, when the ball is drilled, determines how much of that flare potential is used.