legaly cheating.

[wseidl515]

In league play last season one team had a sixth man listed on the roster. through out the season this team would continually hold out a player and bozo there sixth man who was carrying a 215 average. this was allowing them to beat other teams. according to the rules book there is not an official rule stating that this is a rules violation, it is strictly just a down and dirty legal way of cheating. we have lost six teams from this league due to the fact that this team is retuning again this year. are there any suggestions for how we could make a bilaw ruling as a league to prevent this from happening again this year?

[greggas]

was the sixth man actually bowling, or were they using his absentee (blind) score? if they're using an absentee score, they have to use the absent bowler with the most games (assuming the league is sanctioned). if he's actually bowling, then they're not doing anything wrong. 3 possiblities: 1. if his average is above your league's handicap base, you could try to get it raised; 2. establish a team average cap; 3. apply negative handicap to him and other bowlers over the base(i've heard of this, but never seen a league actually using it).:)

[Strike Domination]

I'm not seeing anything wrong here. The 6th man is legal, it sounds. So the only way there could be cheating is if the opposing team is not getting more handicap due to the (assumed) higher average of that 6th man. That's wrong, change the handicap accordingly.

That's what I assume is happening.

[DanielMareina]

There is nothing wrong with that. Bringing in a different bowler on certain nights doesn't improve their chance of winning. Each bowler that night still has to bowl well. If you don't want this to happen, the league can make any rule they want. Even if he wasn't a roster member, he could be a sub and only say yes to sub for that team. I don't agree with negative handicap, but I would raise the percentage and handicap base. Most leagues go off 90% of 220 or 210, so if he averages 215 make the handicap 100% of 220 or 95%. That will make it slightly easier for lower average bowlers to beat him. I don't believe that it is fair to dock him pins for being a great bowler.

[bowl1820]

I basically agree that it is legal (with out seeing the league rules) and it's not really cheating either.

If you want to keep a team from doing that though, you would have to limit the team roster size making it the same as the playing strength of a league team.

( a lot of players don't realize "Roster size" and "Team size/Playing strength" are two different things.If you don't specify a roster size a team can have as many people as they want on their roster. This can be used to get around some rules regarding sub's. But those people can't play on anyone's else team then either.)

From the sound of it the playing strength of a team your league is 5 players. So in the league rules it would have to say roster size is limited to 5 players.

Then if they wanted the other guy to play, it would fall under the league substitute rules.

[wseidl515]

The sixth man was not bowling. the team was just using his score.

[bowl1820]

The sixth man was not bowling. the team was just using his score.

Now that is a different situation, and is covered by USBC rule 105 E. They can do it if he meets the these conditions.

2. Teams with additional players on the roster shall use the absentee score of the absent player
with the:
a) Most games bowled.
b) Lowest absentee score when the absentees have the same number of games bowled.
c) Next highest number of games bowled when two scores are needed.

[wseidl515]

Thank you that is a big help.

[jimgilmore]

I understand exactly what you are complaining about.
I'm presently one of two bowlers on a team that is short 2 bowlers.
my avg is 144, my other partner has a 204 right nowwe get a 150, and 120 to add to ous score
total that give us a team avg of 616. if we bowl a team with a 700 avg we get 68 pins. which brings us up to 674.
but if the other team bowls their avg we got a lot to mak up to win.
Looking at the team high game without hcp We cannot even touch it even if me and my partner each bowl a 300.
But I'm just bowling for fun....I'd like to see a league where the teams are made randomly. That would defeat the loaded teams I see. and subs should be able to float if they are going to be just subs in my opinion.
It just seems like If your going to bowl for the competitive way your going to lose all the people that are out for fun.

[Big Dog]

I understand aboutan on loaded teams. But, that can be fixed by league rules concerning handicap and average cap. If you went to the other suggestion it would hurt several teams and leagues without justification. I have bowled with several for more than one season. Some of my team mates are now my personal friends. They have watched my children grow. I guess what I am trying to say is breaking up teams into random assignment would do an injustice to more than correct a problem.

[jimgilmore]

So you.. as an average joe bowler have no problem if the leage you joined was like you in every way but 1 team consisted of pete weber, del ballard, jonny petraglis and marshal holman all in their prime ?