Swinging around my body

[Brian]

Hi guys, I'm new here (as you probably know already) and I have a rather specific question regarding my swing. I tend to bring it behind my back and swing it around my waist, and I follow through towards the left. I believe this is due to my body type/shape. I am over weight and I have naturally wide hips. If you drew a line straight up from the edge of my waist, it would slice my shoulder in half. Does anyone here have a similar body type/problem and how did you fix your swing? I'm trying to keep it to the right throughout my entire swing, but it really feels stiff and muscle-y.

[The Mayor]

Welcome to the site Brian! Usually when bowlers swing the ball behind their back it's because they are pulling the ball back into the backswing. In other words, the swing is forced. It also can be caused in part by your pushaway. If you make a long exaggerated pushaway, this can cause the swing to not stay on it's intended path. Bill O'Neill said on the PBA show last week that the best tip he ever received was that once you start your swing, you let the weight of the ball take it from there. No muscle should be used to pull the ball back or to push the ball forward. This helped him because he had the same problem you're having (an to an extent still comes behind his back). It's hard to really give you any specific advice without watching you bowl (a video would be great!), but we will help as much as possible!

[kev3inp]

You also may be aided by doing a crossover step on your second step of a 4 step delivery to clear your hip out of the way of the ball on the backswing. Another thing to consider: every time you make a change it feels weird. Keep in mind that weird is good when trying something new. It's not what you're used to doing so it feels odd. With practice it stops feeling strange and becomes the new normal, but it takes time.

[Brian]

I'll probably be able to get a video for some better words of advice on my overall game sometime this week. The place where I usually bowl isn't crowded most of the time. Of course that also means the lanes are about as slick as they come, the "friction" that is supposed to be next to the gutter really isn't there. I suppose that is a very good thing though.

[JAnderson]

Whiskey and Kevin have hit too major points: push away direction and the cross-over step. One other thing that will help clear the hip is the position of your trailing leg. If, at the end of your slide, you imagine yourself standing on the dial of a large clock with your slide foot on the center of the dial and the head pin at 12 o'clock, your trailing leg (for righties) should be somewhere in the 7 o'clock to 9 o'clock position (opposite, 5 o'clock to 3 o'clock for lefties). 6 o'clock is not good - your hip will be in the way of your forward swing and your body won't let you hit yourself in the back of the slide leg. The swing will go out and around.

[aussiedave]

Hi Brian. If you are a big guy, it will be harder for you to get down lower into your release stride, which is my suggestion. What getting down lower does is allow you to swing your trailing leg back to the side out of the way - which is a consideration of most who stand in a more upright release position, hence the tendency to chicken wing it.
The other suggestion is to hold the ball up against the body in your stance and to push it out higher and allow it to "swing" by itself. The motion of moving forward at the same time as the ball is beginning its backward arc developes a good natural backswing with plenty of speed.
If you try all this, you might end up with timing issues! I hope it doesn't and works out for you.
ad.

[martin]

i had the same problems.. but only a little bit behind my back (about level with my right leg).. but pushing the ball out and letting it swing naturally seemed to solve all the problems..

[aussiedave]

i had the same problems.. but only a little bit behind my back (about level with my right leg).. but pushing the ball out and letting it swing naturally seemed to solve all the problems..
Good for you Martin.
What this "pendulum" swing does is generate enough swing/power to prevent you from "muscling" the ball so much - as the brain is telling you "hey, I don't want to drop this ball..." so you instinctively put less effort into your swing. It also allows you to concentrate on other basics like good body release position and a good release and follow through.
ad.

[martin]

Good for you Martin.
What this "pendulum" swing does is generate enough swing/power to prevent you from "muscling" the ball so much - as the brain is telling you "hey, I don't want to drop this ball..." so you instinctively put less effort into your swing. It also allows you to concentrate on other basics like good body release position and a good release and follow through.
ad.
well the problem of going round the back is gone, but my release and follow through still sucks though..

[aussiedave]

well the problem of going round the back is gone, but my release and follow through still sucks though..
For your release, are you trying hard to give the ball a good rip? If so, relax a lot. If your hand position at point of release is about 4:30 that is good - it should come up to a handshake position just after release and up into the follow through. Don't roll the wrist over!
A smooth, easy, fluid follow through aimed directly at your target arrow is what you should work on. Keep the arm straight.
ad.

[martin]

For your release, are you trying hard to give the ball a good rip? If so, relax a lot. If your hand position at point of release is about 4:30 that is good - it should come up to a handshake position just after release and up into the follow through. Don't roll the wrist over!
A smooth, easy, fluid follow through aimed directly at your target arrow is what you should work on. Keep the arm straight.
ad.
not really.. my arm is pretty relaxed.. but the angle is not quite right.. i think if i'm not wrong, my hand position is already at a handshake position at point of release.. my arm turns too early it seems..
and probably i'm standing way too inside.. i'm sliding at the 30th board when my aim is actually 12th-13th board.. and my Anaconda seems to struggle to hook back in fresh oil conditions

[aussiedave]

not really.. my arm is pretty relaxed.. but the angle is not quite right.. i think if i'm not wrong, my hand position is already at a handshake position at point of release.. my arm turns too early it seems..

Just guessing a bit here, but sounds like you aren't getting enough turn into the pocket? If so, you are likely putting the action on your ball too early and there's nothing actually on the ball when you release. You need to ensure you are holding the ball flat longer through the swing and only come around it at the last possible moment to get that turn on it. This takes a bit of concentration - try practicing it without a ball in your hand. I would suggest holding onto a rail or something with your left hand, getting down into your release position and swing your arm practicing that late turn a few times every day to get that into your routine automatically so it becomes second nature and you don't have to think about it. This obviously requires a bit of work, but if you wish to retain your current style as much as possible, and want to get that ball turning sharper, this may be a solution. The other one I will explain on your next paragraph.


and probably i'm standing way too inside.. i'm sliding at the 30th board when my aim is actually 12th-13th board.. and my Anaconda seems to struggle to hook back in fresh oil conditions

Try moving to the right two boards keeping the same lane target, but try it for a full game before you make another adjustment. These are practice games of course. If you are still not happy with that, try another two boards. Small adjustments are best.
If this works, it will save you some of the work that I mapped out for you above. Of course, getting that later work on the ball will give you more turn on it regardless.
Good luck Martin, I hope some of this helps you.
ad.

[martin]

Just guessing a bit here, but sounds like you aren't getting enough turn into the pocket? If so, you are likely putting the action on your ball too early and there's nothing actually on the ball when you release. You need to ensure you are holding the ball flat longer through the swing and only come around it at the last possible moment to get that turn on it. This takes a bit of concentration - try practicing it without a ball in your hand. I would suggest holding onto a rail or something with your left hand, getting down into your release position and swing your arm practicing that late turn a few times every day to get that into your routine automatically so it becomes second nature and you don't have to think about it. This obviously requires a bit of work, but if you wish to retain your current style as much as possible, and want to get that ball turning sharper, this may be a solution. The other one I will explain on your next paragraph.

u're right.. i don't get enough turn into the pocket.. especially when there's heavy oil.. thanks for the tip anyway.. i think i'm really turning my wrist way too early and as such my ball lacks RPM and hook..


Try moving to the right two boards keeping the same lane target, but try it for a full game before you make another adjustment. These are practice games of course. If you are still not happy with that, try another two boards. Small adjustments are best.
If this works, it will save you some of the work that I mapped out for you above. Of course, getting that later work on the ball will give you more turn on it regardless.
Good luck Martin, I hope some of this helps you.
ad. thanks.. hopefully i can find a proper strike line

[kev3inp]

What he said. It always seems the harder you try to put turn on it, the less you get.

You could also work on your release by throwing a toy football underhanded. You see you can throw a spiral, which emulates the release, as well as that you can make it go straight with that turn. If you try to crank on that there's no way you keep your swing direction straight and your release timing gets really squirrelly.

[martin]

seems like the suggestions are working.. thanks guys.. and certainly one website 1 found, bowl4fun.com, has great tips.. my game's improving..

[kev3inp]

Congrats on finding Ron Clifton's website. His Magic Carpet is a product I swear by. He writes regularly in Bowling This Month. We've driven to NC to see him every summer for the last 6 years at the Gathering. He's also appeared on the Let's Go Bowling show.

[martin]

yes.. his tips are brilliant.. :)