Once again.. I manage to confuse even my pro shop guy >.>

[Jake0110]

I have my Marvel Pearl on order, it will be here tomorrow. Its my second ball purchase, so I was excited to go in and get my PAP calculated on my Tropical Heat and get my Marvel drilled exactly the way I want it to roll.

Sounds simple enough right? Wrong. We encountered a problem when we found my PAP. It is extremely low. Lower than anything my pro shop guy's ever seen before. It is 4 11/16" over and 1 9/16" down. He doesn't have a clue how to drill a ball with my PAP correctly. He says he has a friend he can call that might have an idea of how to work with a PAP like mine, but if his friend doesn't have a clue, it's all going to be guessing.

He wants to try a 2" pin ball, but it won't have the backend that I want out of a 3-4" pin.

He told me I could try looking up some dual-angle layouts online and see if I can find anything that I would like to discuss with him, so naturally I came on here to see if any of you guys have any suggestions.

Has any of you Pro Shop owners, or advanced bowling enthusiasts ever encountered this before? Is there a proper way to drill my ball to get some form of skid/flip motion, or am I destined for more arc-like hook?

Or maybe my only way of fixing this problem is to simply (or not) figure out how to put more axis tilt on my ball?

Edit: I forgot to mention. I have medium-high rev rate and about 14-15mph speed.

[Trex]

To make a long story short, My PAP has changed and is now similar to yours Jake.

I find that the layout that works best for me is to use a ball that has a 3" to 3.5" Pin to cg distance, and drill the ball with the Pin above the bridge, and cg below the bridge....Straight up!! Meaning the cg is not right or left but dead center of grip with Pin above bridge!!

With a ball setup this way I can play a deep inside line with more axis tilt and less speed, or I can play down and in with more speed and less axis tilt, or I can play the track with a little axis tilt and medium speed...All with great results!!

But that's just me.... It may or may not work for others.

Just my 2 cents.

BTW......My span is 4" cut to cut from finger holes to thumb hole, you might get by with a shorter Pin to cg distance if your span is shorter than mine. I could give details to the exact measurement, but anyone with drilling experience should get the idea from what I have described above as how to give you the same type layout according to your PAP and span...etc.

Below is a diagram so you can see what this looks like:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q307/NeoTheNeo/Drilling4.jpg

Hope this helps.

[Jake0110]

Yeah, I've been doing some research online and I'm thinking of drilling with my pin closer to the VAL to get the pin above (or atleast beside) my fingertips for the length I want. I know this is going to cause a very strong breakpoint, so I was wondering if I could counteract the strength by pushing my MB closer to the track of my ball (near the thumb hole)?

Something like 3 3/4-4" pin to pap with a 15-20*x55-60* dual angle.

I'm an amateur at this so my angles may be off. I'm just using my head to picture as I don't have any measuring devices.

[Trex]

With out trying to talk about exact measurements, .....Sounds like you have the right idea as to how you want the ball to roll. ...I was thinking you wanted that go long and flip hard (90 degree) sharp type look, guess I was wrong...sounds like you want more of a long and strong type look..strong but not as much flip on the backend.

If it were me I would Just stay away from the double thumb layout!! That layout did not work for me the way they say it is supposed to. ...For me the double thumb layout was way too weak!! I had that layout on a Mutant Cell and it made that ball react like a lane #1 XXXL plastic ball!!

I drilled another one with the layout I was talking about with the Pin above fingers and cg below, and it was a much stronger ball for me drilled that way. All you can do is try the layout you are talking about, then if you don't like the reaction, you can then plug the ball and have it re-drilled with another layout until you find the one that gives you the look that you are looking for.

I have tried every layout there is and there is only about three that give me great results, but like I've said every bowler is different and what works for one may not work for another.

keep us informed as to what works for you. That type of info is always of interest to me as it helps me understand even more that what works for me does not mean it works for everyone. :)

Thanks, and Good luck.

[The Mayor]

For your driller to say he doesn't know how to drill a ball for someone with a unique PAP is a bit ridiculous, in my opinion. Especially if you're using a dual angle layout. You just lay the ball out like you would for any other PAP. It may "look" different than that layout would with a more standard PAP measurement, but it will react the way you want it to. You have that PAP for a reason, because that's how you throw the ball! Sure, your layout isn't going to look like it does in the picture of Storm's 4x4x2 layout, for example. But that's how far ball drilling has come in the modern era. People tend to put too much emphasis on where the pin and CG/MB are in relation to their finger holes. A ball with the pin over the bridge for me is going to react much differently than it will for you. Take some time and go speak with some other ball drillers in your area, you may be able to find someone who will work better for you.