So much to learn! [Archive] - BowlingBoards.com

trickysocialwkr

11-16-2011, 02:52 PM

Looking for a lot of info here. First time post, hoping some people can give me some direction here.

Some background. Started bowling at about age 10 (now 23), took about a 3 year brake while in college but i'm bowling regularly again in leagues now, for about the past 2 years.

As far as styles go, I tend to prefer a gradual hook over a sharp one, and like a more controllable shot than go deep-brake hard toss across the lanes. I'm currently using a Twisted Fury Solid strike ball, drilled however the pro-shop guy would for somebody who has no knowledge of drilling styles. I'm holding a 176 or so average in my current league, and I'm looking to increase consistency.

My biggest issue is simply lack of knowledge. I have almost no idea what PAP, rev rate, differential, coverstock, or any of the other vast number of bowling terminology means and how it affects my game. Trying to do my own google research proves more confusing than anything, so hear I am.

Can anybody give some idea or direction on how best to learn some of these more advances aspects of the game so I can start using them to improve?

Also, I'm interested in looking at ways (or new balls to invest in) to deal with carry down. I feel like my Twisted Fury Solid deals very well for the first game or two, but then tapers off in game 3 when the oil spreads downlane. Any tips for carry down issues? Should I bite the bullet and buy something better for late game situations?

Thanks for reading my overwhelming attempt to self-educate!

BallBuster

11-16-2011, 10:05 PM

A 176 is a fine average, but consistency IS the most difficult part of the game. To gain that part you will need ONE thing; PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! The gentle curving shot you throw is very effective on most house oil patterns. I'm guessing towards your third game your hook gets very weak. The solution isn't going to come from buying another ball. Consistency comes from knowing how to adjust yourself to the lanes' deterioration throughout the series. The oil gets dried up/pushed down to the back of the lane reducing the friction between your ball and it. The proper response is adjustment on your part.

ADJUSTMENTS FOR SUCCESS:
1. When the lanes break down and you aren't hooking, move your feet to the right a few boards and throw at the same mark. If the ball tracks better towards the pocket then move another board or two left or right to perfect it.
2. Ensure that your hand is staying behind the ball, wrist stays tight, and you are getting proper rotation, a 16lb ball DOES wear on your wrist as the night goes on. Along with that needs to come a strong follow-through.
3. FOCUS - Don't let your mind get lazy, concentration is key. It takes many elements all happening correct at once to achieve consistency. While high scores are the main focus of us all, closing each frame is equally important. One shot at a time

All of these things you have to practice. And not just in league; you have to get out and practice with or without friends or teammates. I'm fortunate that my league gives out free passes so I use them at least once a week just to practice. No one ever got any better just bowling their 3 league games a week. I hope some of this will aid you in achieving more consistency. Add to this post after your next league series and tell me how it goes. KEEP ON ROLLIN'

J Anderson

11-17-2011, 08:52 AM

Your questions about PAP, rev rate, differential, etc. have more to do with choosing a new ball than actually bowling. Your PAP, rev rate, and ball speed can be used by the ball driller to determine the best layout for your ball. the lane conditions that you normally bowl on influence the coverstock selection,as well as whether you need a high or low RG or a high or low differential.

Without investing in new equipment, you can work on developing:
A free arm swing
Good timing
A consistent release
A pre-shot mental routine
Good focus on your target
A spare shooting targeting system that works for you.

It really helps to have someone else watching you and giving you feedback.

bowl1820

11-18-2011, 03:35 PM

If your wanting info Get this PDF its called
Click here "Chapter 6 – Bowling Ball Parts and Dynamics" (http://www.athletics2000.com/andrew/Documents/USBC%20Bowling%20Ball%20Parts%20and%20Dynamics.pdf )

"Chapter 6 – Bowling Ball Parts and Dynamics"

Its appears to be from a USBC Bronze Certification coaching manual. Its 58 pages long and
has most of the basic information you could want. Everyone should read this

Info on proper/improper fit, span & pitches, coverstocks, surface adjustments
Ball Construction and Dynamics
Basic bowling ball math
Weight blocks
Pin
Center of Gravity (CG)
Pin-in/pin-out
Radius of Gyration (RG)
Preferred Spin Axis (PSA)
Differential
Track flare
Static weights

and more.

also get
click here for chapter 8 USBC Lane Play pdf (http://www.athletics2000.com/andrew/Documents/USBC%20Chapter%2008%20Lane%20Play.pdf)

click here for chapter 7 USBC Fine Tuning the Physical Game pdf (http://www.athletics2000.com/andrew/Documents/USBC%20Chapter%2007%20Fine%20Tuning%20the%20Physic al%20Game.pdf)

click here for Matching the Ball to the Bowler pdf (http://www.athletics2000.com/andrew/Documents/Matching%20the%20Ball%20to%20the%20Bowler.pdf)

trickysocialwkr

11-19-2011, 09:00 PM

All of these things you have to practice. And not just in league; you have to get out and practice with or without friends or teammates. I'm fortunate that my league gives out free passes so I use them at least once a week just to practice. No one ever got any better just bowling their 3 league games a week. I hope some of this will aid you in achieving more consistency. Add to this post after your next league series and tell me how it goes. KEEP ON ROLLIN'

172, 128, and 174 in league this afternoon with a 172 average. I was happy with a couple of average games, but obviously my consistency is all over the place. My strike shot was on the money the first game, but my lacking spare game killed the possible 200. By game 2, the strike shot was dead and I wasn't getting any curve on my shot, even playing as far out as I could. Practically had to throw it straight, but I think the lanes were more oily than normal, since it seemed like others were having a rough time with getting any grab. Game 3 the strikes were still gone, but I had a decent spare game which brought the game up.

I talked to my pro shop guy both before and after the games to try and learn something from him. He took a look at my ball and figured out that the drill layout on the ball was basically all wrong for my hand size now. I'm guessing my hand grew in between, since I have had the ball for probably 4 years now. So I'm getting the thumb filled and redrilled, and then fitted with a thumb slug.

So aside from doing all of the form things I already know to do, I just don't know how else to get that consistency back, let alone improve the average. Thanks for the help thus far!

BallBuster

11-19-2011, 11:48 PM

I'm guessing that throughout your series you had 8-12 open frames. Those spare pickups are essential, if you can cut that number in half you will see your average jump 10-20 pins, and your "bad game" will be average compared to your better ones . Like I said before take it one frame at a time and concentrate. Develop a pre-shot routine and stick to it whether it's a strike or spare shot.
Do you use your reactive ball to pickup spares or a plastic ball?

If your curve goes dead:
Ensure you are staying firmly behind the ball and not coming around the side.
Hold the ball lower in your set-up stance, thus making a shorter pendulum and slower ball speed to give it more time to gain friction.

Today I found a great tool on youtube, checkout the channel "http://www.youtube.com/user/RSvirtualbowling" Today I watched every video and took notes to take with me to my next practice/league session. This guy really did open me up to elements of my game I hadn't considered.

4 BIG C's For Success
- Control
- Confidence
- Consistency
- Concentration

trickysocialwkr

11-20-2011, 12:38 AM

Do you use your reactive ball to pickup spares or a plastic ball?

For spares, it really depends on the shot. If i'm hitting something that requires some hook, then typically I will (i.e. any appropriate spares with the pocket intact, or like 1-2-4 spares, etc). For 6, 10, or 6-10 I'm using a 14lb (instead of 16) very old Zone ball I had from high school that goes almost completely straight, and I'm fairly accurate with it, though I've though about swapping it out for just a house ball. At league today, I almost had to use the 14lb Zone for any of my spares because my reactive ball was just getting nothing from the lanes. Started to get better at the end, but even some of those spares were from the Zone, and carrydown was killing my reactive (I have a general problem with carrydown at this point). I'm waiting to get my Twisted Fury back from the shop after the redrilling and thumb slug. I'm curious to see how much it changes

BallBuster

11-20-2011, 01:06 AM

Fixing your spread length will make a big difference for you. I know it did for me. I had a thumb hole moved in my Messenger Titanium and 3 games later I shot 277! The difference was that I had a better spread and was able to get more hand on the ball and thus getting more revs. On top of that I started tucking my pinky so I am getting much more back end hook.

trickysocialwkr

11-21-2011, 10:58 PM

Ok, so I got the Twisted Fury back earlier today. My pro-shop guy basically had to re-teach my to throw the ball properly because I have apparently gotten used to throwing it so poorly. He told me that because drill pattern for the ball made the grip to small for me that I was actually gripping the ball instead of holding it, which sort of made me force my shots and my rotation. With the newer, properly fitting re-drill, I had to learn to keep my thumb relaxed so it actually came off my hand. After about 3 or 4 practice releases in the pro shop, it felt fairly comfortable. So I took it out.....and went 9/12 strikes with a 256 game! I haven't seen scores like that in over 5 years. I was floored. Can't believe that stupid ball was set wrong this whole time haha. I'm taking it out again tomorrow because I want to test it out some more.

I know aside from the re-drill, he said he did something to help with oil saturation (no clue what that's called in pro-shop language) and he roughed the ball down some (something like a 600-grit? Again, not fully understanding of the language and terms) so he did say those would help the ball roll sooner, and I deffinetly know I noticed it almost right away.

Any tips on how I should maintain my ball now as I continue to use it? I've thought about buying some sort of polish or rough buff, but I have literally no idea how to use either product properly or what would be best to buy. I just would rather not see the ball decline again over time when there are ways I can maintain it easily. Recommend any products? perhaps tell me how/when to use them?

BallBuster

11-21-2011, 11:41 PM

Definately a ball maintenance question for google or your pro-shop guy. Today I got my Storm X-Factor Vertigo back after getting the spread remeasured and the thumb moved just an 1/8 inch. From that adjustment tonight I threw 184-226-198 for a pleasing 608. My average being 175. You are probably getting much more hand on the ball, same as me giving you better angle of the roll. I opened 5 frames that could have all been made :'-( Let's hope next week is even better :-).

KEEP ON ROLLIN'

vgw

11-22-2011, 12:20 PM

Do you use a ball cleaner after you bowl? That would be a good first start. You can just spray the cleaner on and wipe it off the ball. That should help remove the surface oil. That will help on a short-term basis, then after you bowl a lot of games, you can take it back to the pro shop to have it resurfaced or do the oil saturation thing when you start feeling a noticeable decline in performance. I have only had resurfacing done at the shop and have not tried the saturation methods. I also give the ball a good soak every month or so in warm water and dish washing liquid, using a microfiber towel to wipe off the oil.

trickysocialwkr

11-22-2011, 09:36 PM

I just bought ball cleaner today and started using it after i'm done with a session. I also asked my pro shop guy abotu buying a sanding pad to use to rough up the cover stock, but he basically said it was better for me to let him do it. I think i'm planning on taking it to the pro shop every couple of weeks to be revitalized. is soaking the ball like that a safe way to remove the oil? i just didnt know if the water would damage the ball.

i'm noticing that with the new, more full drill pattern i'm still having release issues, like coming aroudn the ball on the release instead of staying under it. I was having a hard time with my strike shot leaving single pins today, and producing the kind of curve i'm looking for on the ball. still feeling very new to how the ball feels after the redrill

BallBuster

11-23-2011, 03:15 PM

Now that your ball is drilled to fit you better you have to work harder to stay behind it. That's how you get the best axis rotation. Also make an effort to keep your elbow straight. Coming around the side is your body's way of compensating for the lack of muscle mass in the wrist. Yes it gives you a sweet hook, but a very inconsistent shot altogether because it makes you articulate more at the shoulders and hips when both should remain fairly square with the foul line. The answer is simply practice to build the muscles. Stay behind the ball and release as if you were throwing a football underhanded in a spiral motion. And no, soapy water will not harm your ball. I've recently gotten into the habit of washing it with warm/hot water and dish soap. And yes, it does help remove oil from the ball. Especially with a microfiber towel and a little rubbing alcohol to dry up the water. This can be done multiple times.

trickysocialwkr

12-05-2011, 01:07 PM

i have been practicing alot more lately, really trying to build up muscle memory of keeping my hand under the ball, since coming around it was a big issue for me. one problem i'm still encountering though is a general lack of curve, which is exactly what I was finding before my balls recent redrill and discovering I had to relearn my release.

typically and ideally speaking, I prefer to play the mid lane with my Twisted Fury. I release at around the right 17 board, cross the arrows at roughly the 13 board, and then break in. most of the time now though I find myself only able to play the outside of the lane and throw in much straighter, with only slight curve.

previously I controlled curve by adjusting starting height of the ball before pushaway and how close I was to the foul line before pushaway, but my reading and instruction from others makes it sound like I shouldn't be relying on this as much. what else can i do or practice to get more out of my ball? thoughts?

on a positive note, i'm noticing some more consistency when I actually focus on and concentrate on my game. spares are getting better.

vgw

12-05-2011, 03:36 PM

Sounds like you are making real good progress. Spares are what keeps you alive, the strikes will win it, but I've seen lots of guys who can throw monstrous strikes, only to die because they can't hit a 10 pin or multiple-pin spare. As you become more accustomed to bowling on various lane conditions, you can think about adding another ball to handle a situation a little better.

littlelegs

12-06-2011, 01:24 PM

tumblebug1949

12-06-2011, 01:32 PM

Littlelegs, I totally agree with you. Thanks bowl1820 for providing the wonderful links. Excellent reading and something everyone should devote some time to.

Tom

trickysocialwkr

12-07-2011, 10:16 AM

so any tips for putting more revs on the ball or getting more curve? i don't want to feel like i'm forced to play the 4th board every time I go to the lanes simple because that's the only way I get any reliable curve

littlelegs

12-07-2011, 10:37 AM

This may help coming from the perspective of someone who struggled with this part of the game. I'm finally getting there but it was an uphill struggle as so often guides, articles and advice miss basic pointers. Some of the stuff I knew I should be doing but didn't realize I wasn't until I videoed it and/or had got people to watch me. Other bits and pieces I gradually learned...

One of the most obvious things - make sure your thumb is snug (but not too tight to get out of the ball). There should be no pressure needed on your thumb during the swing, it being there just to help guide the ball in the right direction.

Ensure your thumb is coming out of the ball first and early enough. If it isn't you're probably still gripping it. It's easy to do without realizing.

Keep your arm relaxed and loose. This really is pretty vital for a accurate, repeatable release with good revs. Tightening the muscles really can reign the revs in and make you lose accuracy.

Stay behind the ball. DO NOT come up the side of the ball with your arm if looking for good revs with accuracy. So then you ask how to get movement in the right direction instead of forwards? This was my biggest problem area for ages as so few guides explain it simply and it really is pretty simple (although getting the execution right takes time and practice). Just rotate your fingers and wrist at the time of release but NOT the rest of your arm. Google some Tommy Jones release videos to see what I mean, as his exaggerated release helps highlight this. His arm stays the same direction throughout. It's the the wrist that rotates to create spin in the right direction. It also helps with getting the thumb out of the ball just that little bit earlier.

Keep your wrist strong until the moment of release (cupped if you can for higher revs). This sounds simple but you're essentially trying to completely relax the arm muscles on the downward swing whilst keeping the wrist muscles tense which takes some getting used to.

Follow through with the arm all the way over the head. It really does make a difference.

Try not to lean too far forward when you release. Getting low by bending the knee is good but dipping forward can kill revs and accuracy.

And as has been said before keep the ball clean between frames and after each session.

*an edit to add something as I think of it* Use the maximum back swing that you can control. I say this for two reasons. Try to copy someone like Tommy Jones and you may just find you're simply missing everything. That's a hard style to bowl and something I believe you need to 'feel' comfortable doing before trying to learn it. However, I struggled for a year with getting my thumb out of the ball early enough to get revs. Whatever I tried it simply wasn't happening. Then one session I tried something slightly new and it was like the light coming on for the first time...I simply took my back swing ever so slightly above horizontal as opposed to quite a bit below. Suddenly I had revs. Then the practice kicks in as you learn to control the direction of the revs and the accuracy of the ball with the higher swing.

Along with the above I switched from a 4 to a 5 step approach as I find with the higher swing I needed the extra step for the timing, otherwise it was always just a little out.

I hope that helps a little and I'm sure I'll be corrected by some of the very good bowlers and coaches kicking around here if they see anything wrong. As I say all the above is from the POV of someone having the same problems and steps that worked for me to help overcome them. All of the above has made a big difference to my game. Currently I'm still settling down and trying to get proper muscle memory going for all the changes as there's been a lot of them over the last 18 months or so.

littlelegs

12-07-2011, 10:39 AM

I apologize for the lack of paragraphs. I put them in and quick reply seemed to ignore them. I also can't seem to edit the post in IE or Firefox. I simply get a permanent loading wheel graphic over the edit button when I try to.

Scrub that. I got editing to work by copy/pasting the edit URL into the browser :)

tumblebug1949

12-07-2011, 10:59 AM

HI ALL,

You have an interesting thread going and I am struggling with the same problem. Not enough revs and inconsistency in release to boot.

Question: Do any of you use support grips to help control hand position and release. If so, which grip do you think is the best?

Do you know of any good articles or videos about these items?

Thanks in advance for any information
Tom

JerseyJim

12-07-2011, 11:32 AM

trickysocialwkr

12-07-2011, 11:35 AM

if you are referring to finger tip grips for the ball, which I assume you are, then I personally like them. Everything I have heard from more knoweldgeable players suggests they are a good thing to use. As a side note, i'm only just now learning that i've been releasing my ball incorrectly for 3-4 years due to a poor drill layout, so i'm relearning this aspect of my form. That being said, i'm clearly no expert haha. I do think that the finger tip grips I use help my fingers to get that smooth roll off of my hand.

littlelegs

12-07-2011, 01:03 PM

Try going to Joe Slowinski's website, http://www.bowlingknowledge.info. He's one of the top coaches in the country, and he's published numerous articles in Bowling This Month magazine. Also Susie Minshew has a bunch of stuff floating around the web, http://www.strikeability.com/learn.php.

Thanks for the links. A few nice little nuggets on Susie's site and some very informative stuff on Joe's. Some of the technical articles he has are fascinating especially the one about carry down being a myth and the real reasons behind it.