Need More Ball Rotation

[cdnewsome3]

I know that its all in how you throw a ball, but I need some help getting more rotation. I have a Infinite Theory (2.49 rg and 0.058 diff). The ball rotates good until it gets about 3/4 down the lane then it just loses its rotation and just starts rolling strait (no back end hook). I bowl on medium to oily lanes most of the time. I was wondering if a ball with different rg and differential and/or coverstock would help hold my rotation thru the back end. Im not a pro, 165-185 avg. What values (low/high rg and diff) do I need to look for to give me this action? And also does symmetrical vs assymetrical have any difference in this matter?

Thanks

[DaveAyotte]

sounds like your ball is rolling out. do you know your ball speed by chance? It may not be the revs at all, because if you're not bowling with enough speed on all that oil, you could throw it with 1000rpm and all its going to do is spin and spin and spin, and burn all of it's energy before it hits the dry, then go straight. So, I would start there. Tell us a bit about yourself, and how heavy this ball is.

[bowl1820]

here check out Talk bowlings info on ball roll out

http://www.talkbowling.com/talk-bowling-episode-0038-what-causes-bowling-ball-roll-out/

[DaveAyotte]

very nice! something I can listen to at work. :D why had I never come across this before?!

[J Anderson]

Because we are all sworn to secrecy, and never divulge this to the uninitiated.

[cdnewsome3]

I throw 14lbs and my ball speed is usually 15-16..A local pro said i needed to actually slow down, to be about 14.5-15 mph???

[DaveAyotte]

are you laying it down at the line, or are you getting some lift with your fingers? Next time you're on the lanes, stay in your release form, and look at your hand. Where is it in reference to your head? Where is your thumb pointing? is your back straight, or are you hunched over? Some of these may be factors to a dead roll, because if your releasing the ball down, or into the lane - this will also cause it to lose it's energy. I don't think slowing it down is going to help anything in your case... but i'm not watching you bowl, either. I have a guy on my team that throws probably 18-19 consistently, and that thing moves like a truck.

[bowl1820]

Taking a guess here.
The pro there advised you slow your speed some. So I'm guessing that whats really happening is your throwing it through the breakpoint. (to fast for the amount of revolutions "revs" on the ball.) So by slowing your speed some, I think he feels that it will allow the ball to work and grab the lane earlier.

[bowl1820]

I want to add Rotation and Revolutions are two different things.

Revolutions or "Revs" are how much the ball spins around its axis. the more revs you have, the more potential energy the ball will have.

Rotation on the other hand most of the time refers to Axis Rotation which is basically what direction the ball is spinning (Rotational direction of the ball) and the direction its traveling (Linear direction of ball travel)

Heres a chart that shows Axis Tilt and Rotation.
http://www.innovativebowling.com/pro%20shop%20info/Measuring_Axis_Tilt_And_Rotation.gif

So what your wanting is more "Revs" Revolutions not Rotation.

[DaveAyotte]

1820, I mean - don't get me wrong, I'm no certified coach or anything, but don't you think that slowing it down would just lead to more issues? Not all the time, don't get me wrong, but if it's happening on a consistent basis - I highly doubt the issue is with the THS, unless he's gunning it up the middle and not reaching a deep enough breakpoint. I mean, slowing is a fix for the problem, but if he's not correcting the root issue then it's not a true solution.

By no means am I trying to belittle your information, I just don't want the guy to go out there and think he has to rip the snot out of the ball for it to do anything, if there is another issue on the release that is causing it. Please don't take offense. I'm in a slump myself - so I know how frustrating it is trying to find out where the issue(s) are that need to be corrected, rather than just making small fixes here and there that screw up your normal rhythm and timing.

[bowl1820]

I take no offense Dave. But I didn't recommend throwing it slower or faster. I just gave my thoughts on why I think the Pro suggested he slow the ball down.

Depending on what the conditions are.I might suggest He might just need to put a little more shine on the ball (polish). It will get through the heads a little cleaner, retain more energy and maybe come off the breakpoint better.

[DaveAyotte]

no, I know <b>you</b> didn't suggest it... I just was trying to clarify that it may not be the best advice.

[cdnewsome3]

Yeah, ur right..revs is actually what im wanting to increase...I think the pro was suggesting since i didnt have alot of revs, by slowing down it would have a chance to catch more, but from what u guys are saying that isnt going to fix my core problem of not reving it enough. I tried slowing down and it seems when i slow my throw, the revs also drop proportionally. Again, im almost sure its something IM doing in my release, and not the balls fault. Just wondering if sanding, core type, coverstock would help any.

Its kind of confusing...If I increase the polish, this will help make the ball slicker, store more energy, help with my revs. But If i go too much (too slick of a ball surface) do i run the risk of it not catching at all and missing the pocket altogether?

[cdnewsome3]

Also, if i do increase my grit to make it smoother to increase revs, wont this decrease my overall amount of hook? Seems like if i gain in one area itll hurt my somewhere else. I want to increase my revs but not at the expense of lessening my hook, if possible

[bowl1820]

Now if your looking to increase Revs, take a look at this Joe Slowinski article.
Click Here Simple Method to Change the Amount of Revs (http://bowlingknowledge.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=62)

[striker12]

one thing is if your ball is losing its energy at the backend there is a way to help that do a little loft keep it low soo you will be avoiding alittle part of the first part of the lane soo then your ball will still have some energy left when it gets to the backend and it will beable to hook but also another thing thats helps is by shooting is almost streght up or right streght up depends on how u want to do it cause also remember this crossing boards u can useing alot more lane then streght up cause it crosses out and then has to move back in soo you could be losing energy going cross the lanes best thing that i was told was even out your speed and revs dont have one faster then the other or your ball will just slid even threw the dry soo i hope this helps you out and i hope you find out a solution soon

[DaveAyotte]

Make sure your wrist is straight too, like a continuation of your forearm.

[striker12]

well dave if your wrist is streght then u will have less revs but if you cup your wrist u can get alot more revs out of the ball and make it hook bigger and still have more energy going down that lane but if you dont want much hook dont streghten out your wrist or cup it your your wrist right behind the ball u will get mid revs and a nice smooth hook instead of a sharp snap when it gets to the backend