Looking for a new ball

[Dopamine]

I am currently searching for a stronger arching ball than the one I currently have, my Onyx Vibe. For my style (16-17mph/medium rev) I am having difficulty throwing the high end balls without trying to give too much hand and throwing off my timing. I had a Hell Raiser drilled similar layout to my vibe and I noticed my Vibe will out-hook the hell raiser relatively easily. I have had similar problems with a virtual gravity as well. I've tried changing the cover, and ultimately in the end the ball doesn't finish and I end up leaving lots of buckets.

What I've come to as a conclusion is that I need more of an arching vs. skid-snap ball that can get through the heads, and would rather have it more of a polished finish as opposed to a matte finish. Anyone have any ideas/opinions I could try out?

[striker12]

well the ball you should look at are solid balls they give as much skid and if your looking for good backend itdose depends on the ball and also the layout that u get it drilled.

soo i would recommend the roto grip defiant it is a strong ball its also solid and not pearl soo it wont slid down as much and if you are looking for a strong arc u should get it drilled for length with a sharp backend or something that your pro shop recommends caue they know what they are talking about cause they want to give u a good ball that gives a good ball that u are happy with.

also remember most bowling bals u have to adjust too to get it to work at it best

[JerseyJim]

I am currently searching for a stronger arching ball than the one I currently have, my Onyx Vibe. For my style (16-17mph/medium rev) I am having difficulty throwing the high end balls without trying to give too much hand and throwing off my timing. I had a Hell Raiser drilled similar layout to my vibe and I noticed my Vibe will out-hook the hell raiser relatively easily. I have had similar problems with a virtual gravity as well. I've tried changing the cover, and ultimately in the end the ball doesn't finish and I end up leaving lots of buckets.

What I've come to as a conclusion is that I need more of an arching vs. skid-snap ball that can get through the heads, and would rather have it more of a polished finish as opposed to a matte finish. Anyone have any ideas/opinions I could try out?

What it sounds like is that you're throwing on a lower volume of oil than the Hell Raiser, or VG needs. It's using up most of its energy before it gets to the breakpoint. The Vibe is a much better match up. When you changed the cover on the Hell Raiser, and VG what did you change the surface to?

[Dopamine]

What it sounds like is that you're throwing on a lower volume of oil than the Hell Raiser, or VG needs. It's using up most of its energy before it gets to the breakpoint. The Vibe is a much better match up. When you changed the cover on the Hell Raiser, and VG what did you change the surface to?

Always dull, I never did attempt to polish the ball. The ball did hook more initially, but between game 1 and 2 the ball would soak up the oil and burn out again.

[bowl1820]

What it sounds like is that you're throwing on a lower volume of oil than the Hell Raiser, or VG needs. It's using up most of its energy before it gets to the breakpoint. The Vibe is a much better match up. When you changed the cover on the Hell Raiser, and VG what did you change the surface to?

I agree with JersyJim, this sounds like another case of how "less can be more" because of the conditions.


You answered the question yourself when you said about Hellraiser & VG, "The ball did hook more initially" then when the line burnt up, it quit working. When that happens, it's time to try a less aggressive ball.

Early loss of bowling ball energy or ball speed, usually happens when you have chosen a ball with a coverstock that is too aggressive for the lane conditions.

Here's a good article that talks about this.
http://www.kegel.net/library/foArticles.asp?iKodYazi=49

So you might try polishing some not just dulling.

Me I think I'd leave the Vibe the way it is, its working ok as is for the drier stuff.

The Virtual Gravity, I'd try going back to the OOB (Out of Box) finish (4000-grit Abralon), then hit it with a little polish or maybe 2000 Abralon followed with a coat of polish. For the mediums/THS.

For the Hell Raiser,I'd have it setup for the oil. The OOB for it is (500; 1,500 Siaair Micro Pad; Rough Buff Finish). Depending on what passes for a lot of oil there. You may have to go to a higher grit 2000-4000 and/or some Rough Buff or Factory finish polish.

[Dopamine]

I agree with JersyJim, this sounds like another case of how "less can be more" because of the conditions.


You answered the question yourself when you said about Hellraiser & VG, "The ball did hook more initially" then when the line burnt up, it quit working. When that happens, it's time to try a less aggressive ball.

Early loss of bowling ball energy or ball speed, usually happens when you have chosen a ball with a coverstock that is too aggressive for the lane conditions.

Here's a good article that talks about this.
http://www.kegel.net/library/foArticles.asp?iKodYazi=49

So you might try polishing some not just dulling.

Me I think I'd leave the Vibe the way it is, its working ok as is for the drier stuff.

The Virtual Gravity, I'd try going back to the OOB (Out of Box) finish (4000-grit Abralon), then hit it with a little polish or maybe 2000 Abralon followed with a coat of polish. For the mediums/THS.

For the Hell Raiser,I'd have it setup for the oil. The OOB for it is (500; 1,500 Siaair Micro Pad; Rough Buff Finish). Depending on what passes for a lot of oil there. You may have to go to a higher grit 2000-4000 and/or some Rough Buff or Factory finish polish.

I will try and polish the balls for practice and see how they work. Any ball you could suggest that is less aggressive than the VG/Hell Raiser but would still work better on fresher patterns than my Vibe? I guess overall the house I bowl at is considered dry, but oil burns up so fast by the middle of the first game everyone is moving. My Vibe doesn't really shine till second game.

[bowl1820]

I will try and polish the balls for practice and see how they work. Any ball you could suggest that is less aggressive than the VG/Hell Raiser but would still work better on fresher patterns than my Vibe? I guess overall the house I bowl at is considered dry, but oil burns up so fast by the middle of the first game everyone is moving. My Vibe doesn't really shine till second game.

As for a ball suggestion.
I'd go with a ball that had a symmetrical core and a hybrid or pearl coverstock. They'll get down the lane and retain a lot of energy.

I'm using a Rotogrip Nomad Dagger, which is a hybrid with a symmetrical core. I can use it all 3 games 95% of the time.

There is also Storms Tropical Heat black/silver , which is a hybrid with a symmetrical core. Good for the Med. to Med. light conditions. Has the turbine core like in the fast and furious.

[Dopamine]

As for a ball suggestion.
I'd go with a ball that had a symmetrical core and a hybrid or pearl coverstock. They'll get down the lane and retain a lot of energy.

I'm using a Rotogrip Nomad Dagger, which is a hybrid with a symmetrical core. I can use it all 3 games 95% of the time.

There is also Storms Tropical Heat black/silver , which is a hybrid with a symmetrical core. Good for the Med. to Med. light conditions. Has the turbine core like in the fast and furious.

Tropical heat is too mild for me. I was thinking symmetrical core balls with weaker covers (reckless, victory road) and I've also heard good things about c(system) balls too. Is the nomad a stronger ball as far as hook rating is concerned?

[bowl1820]

Tropical heat is too mild for me. I was thinking symmetrical core balls with weaker covers (reckless, victory road)
Thats kind of a contradiction, the tropical heat B/S (Hybrid) is a symmetrical core ball with a weaker cover! Well weaker than the VG, but stronger than the vibe. The Vibe is the weakest ball of all these here.

(I just thought, you understand the Tropical Heat ball I'm talking about is the Hybrid one, not the "Tropical Heat" pearl one. The pearl one is closer to your Vibe)

(Using BTM's Rating's here)
The Tropical Heat "hybrid", Nomad Dagger"hybrid", Victory Road"pearl" and Reckless"pearl" have almost identical ratings
Hook 48
Backend 15-16
length 14-15
torque 7

So if the Heat is too mild, then the Victory Road"pearl" and Reckless"pearl" would be too.

As a comparison your Virtual Gravity has a
Hook 53
Backend 16.5
length 11
torque 7

and the Onyx vibe has a
Hook 45
Backend 14.5
length 15.5
torque 6.3


I've also heard good things about c(system) balls too. Is the nomad a stronger ball as far as hook rating is concerned?

In regards to the Rotogrip Nomads, there are three. The Nomad, The Nomad Pearl and the Nomad Dagger. The rating s are basically the same , they just have different coverstocks. The "Nomad" is the strongest with a 51 hook rating.

As for the C-systems most are Asymmetrical cores, the Symmetrical one the "C-(System) 4.5" and is a pearl.
heres the numbers for it.

"C-(System) 4.5"
Hook 48
Backend 15-16
length 14-15
torque 7

as you see its not really any different than the others.

After looking at these numbers, of the balls mentioned above. I'd go with the Dagger or the Victory Road, because they have a little higher flare potential than the Heat and because the reckless's hook rating is mostly because its sanded at 500 grit with some rough buff on it.

[Dopamine]

Thats kind of a contradiction, the tropical heat B/S (Hybrid) is a symmetrical core ball with a weaker cover! Well weaker than the VG, but stronger than the vibe. The Vibe is the weakest ball of all these here.

(I just thought, you understand the Tropical Heat ball I'm talking about is the Hybrid one, not the "Tropical Heat" pearl one. The pearl one is closer to your Vibe)

(Using BTM's Rating's here)
The Tropical Heat "hybrid", Nomad Dagger"hybrid", Victory Road"pearl" and Reckless"pearl" have almost identical ratings
Hook 48
Backend 15-16
length 14-15
torque 7

So if the Heat is too mild, then the Victory Road"pearl" and Reckless"pearl" would be too.

As a comparison your Virtual Gravity has a
Hook 53
Backend 16.5
length 11
torque 7

and the Onyx vibe has a
Hook 45
Backend 14.5
length 15.5
torque 6.3



In regards to the Rotogrip Nomads, there are three. The Nomad, The Nomad Pearl and the Nomad Dagger. The rating s are basically the same , they just have different coverstocks. The "Nomad" is the strongest with a 51 hook rating.

As for the C-systems most are Asymmetrical cores, the Symmetrical one the "C-(System) 4.5" and is a pearl.
heres the numbers for it.

"C-(System) 4.5"
Hook 48
Backend 15-16
length 14-15
torque 7

as you see its not really any different than the others.

After looking at these numbers, of the balls mentioned above. I'd go with the Dagger or the Victory Road, because they have a little higher flare potential than the Heat and because the reckless's hook rating is mostly because its sanded at 500 grit with some rough buff on it.

No clue how you got to that hook rating but do you mind posting one for the Frantic? My two favorite balls of all time were the Thunder Storm and Red Hot. So I'm looking for something similar, and since they are from the same line I don't think I can go wrong. From what I've read the Frantic has a "hook" rating more than the victory road/Crossroad but from the reviews states it goes longer. Any info on what your sources say?

And thank you again for all the help.

[resstealth]

Correct me if im wrong, but I believe you're saying you're getting too much hook? If that's the case, Id try a ball a little less strong then a vg. Im throwing the VG NANO, extremely high ball speed and extremely high revs and I can't get close to the pocket on dry lanes, its just an absurdly strong ball. A good ball that ive thrown that I believe would suit you would be a Hammer Brick. Fairly strong but still controllable on a dry lane.

[bowl1820]

No clue how you got to that hook rating but do you mind posting one for the Frantic? My two favorite balls of all time were the Thunder Storm and Red Hot. So I'm looking for something similar, and since they are from the same line I don't think I can go wrong. From what I've read the Frantic has a "hook" rating more than the victory road/Crossroad but from the reviews states it goes longer. Any info on what your sources say?

And thank you again for all the help.

Okay, the hook rating and other numbers are from a magazine called "Bowling This Month" (BTM).

It's about the best bowling information magazine out used by about everybody now. In it they test and review all the balls.
They give ratings for hook,backend,length,torque,flare,rg and the OOB surface.
They also rank the performance on oil,medium,dry and sports conditions for strokers,tweeners and crankers. Plus other information.

The Storm Frantic is in issue 10/2011
It's a Symmetrical core Hybrid ball
Hook is 49
Backend is 15.5
Length is 13.5
Torque is 7
Flare 6.6
It's ranked all 9.0's for the Mediums, thats good.

The Storm Victory Road is in issue 2/2011
It's a Symmetrical core Pearl ball
Hook is 48
Backend is 16.5
Length is 15
Torque is 7
Flare 7.5
It's ranked all 9's also for the med.

As for the Crossroad It's review isnt out yet. But from looking the mfg. info it looks pretty close to the above ones. As for the Red hot thats a old ball from the 90's and is not in my database (it only goes back to 2000) I'll have to look it up in the back issues I have. Theres a lot of storm balls with thunder in the name, I would need the exact name for it.

Overall every ball mentioned here, has pretty similar numbers. They are all symmetrical, hybrids or pearl and a lot have the same OOB finish on them.

So basically any would be a good pick, so if you like the Frantic.

Once you pick a ball, discuss with the proshop what the best layout for what you want the ball to do is.

[bowl1820]

Correct me if im wrong, but I believe you're saying you're getting too much hook? If that's the case, Id try a ball a little less strong then a vg. Im throwing the VG NANO, extremely high ball speed and extremely high revs and I can't get close to the pocket on dry lanes, its just an absurdly strong ball. A good ball that ive thrown that I believe would suit you would be a Hammer Brick. Fairly strong but still controllable on a dry lane.

The Brick for Dry! Think not.

While it's not as strong the Nano, The ball's numbers are similar to his virtual gravity, so it wouldn't do for drier conditions for him.

Now it might work for you on the dry. You said it yourself, you have extremely high ball speed and extremely high revs.


Yeah you could use a long pin to axis layout with a weak mass bias to kill it some. But why get a racecar and take the engine out of it.

Virtual Gravity
Reactive Solid coverstock.
Hook 53
Backend 16.5
length 11
torque 7
Flare about 7"

Hammer Brick
Asymmetrical core, Hybrid coverstock.
Hook 52
Backend 15
Length 11
Torque 6.5
Flare about 5"

[resstealth]

The Brick for Dry! Think not.

While it's not as strong the Nano, The ball's numbers are similar to his virtual gravity, so it wouldn't do for drier conditions for him.

Now it might work for you on the dry. You said it yourself, you have extremely high ball speed and extremely high revs.


Yeah you could use a long pin to axis layout with a weak mass bias to kill it some. But why get a racecar and take the engine out of it.

Virtual Gravity
Reactive Solid coverstock.
Hook 53
Backend 16.5
length 11
torque 7
Flare about 7"

Hammer Brick
Asymmetrical core, Hybrid coverstock.
Hook 52
Backend 15
Length 11
Torque 6.5
Flare about 5"

Wow I didn't realize the brick was rated that high. The one ive thrown is used and probably had some oil soaked in. Honestly if you're bowling on dry lanes and you don't have alot of arm behind the ball, you might want to try a spare ball. Ive seen some guys throwing slingshots on dry lanes with pretty decent success.

[DaveAyotte]

Just a heads up, and this isn't to negate anyone's advice - but don't get "spare ball" confused with polyester (plastic) balls - ie vizaball. These will not hook more than 2-3 boards, regardless of the lane condition, unless they were striped and not oiled, or you're trying to hook it on purpose.

[bowl1820]

Wow I didn't realize the brick was rated that high. The one ive thrown is used and probably had some oil soaked in. Honestly if you're bowling on dry lanes and you don't have alot of arm behind the ball, you might want to try a spare ball. Ive seen some guys throwing slingshots on dry lanes with pretty decent success.

The Slingshot, with the pearl powerkoil 17 cover, would be ok for a drier condition. But he all ready has the Vibe and he wanted stronger ball than it. And the Slingshot is a lot weaker than Vibe.

[DaveAyotte]

What about something like a Track 503C, or a Roto Grip Rising Star? Both should hook more than your vibe, but less than Frantic, Brick, etc. I know the 503 has a high polish on it too, so it should get down the lane further for you on the dry conditions.

[bowl1820]

What about something like a Track 503C, or a Roto Grip Rising Star? Both should hook more than your vibe, but less than Frantic, Brick, etc. I know the 503 has a high polish on it too, so it should get down the lane further for you on the dry conditions.

He numbers on the 503C are almost the same as the Vibe, so not much difference there.

Now the Rising Star would be pretty good. The numbers for it are basically the same as the Dagger, Reckless, victory road.

Rising Star
Symmetrical core, hybrid
Hook 48
Backend 16
Length 16
Torque 6.5
Flare 6.3