Spare Balls

[MICHAEL]

Unless its the ten pin, I usually throw my strike ball, which at the present time is Two Undefeated balls! Each drilled differantly. I have pretty good luck doing it that way, but I notice the oil conditon of the alley can really throw me a curve somtimes. Not dive over because of heavy oil in middle or down the lane. Do you think its better to stick with the plastic ball and always go the direct route to the spare, rather then play the big hook into it? It seems to me some times playing a hook into a two pin sleeper is very forgiving if your,,, for example,,, a right handed person you can aim for the right side of the two pins and the hook will get it witout hitting it head on like most sleepers!

Again the gamble is will the oil keep the ball from taking on a angle shot into the the typical two pin sleeper situation.

Should I stick with the plastic for all spares and miss some due to oil, or would I be better off just sticking with the plastic for all spares.

[billf]

I use plastic almost exclusively on spares, even sleepers. If need be I will hook it some for 2-8s, 3-9s. Use it for the 1,2,4,7,10 also when I screw up and leave it.

[martin]

my spare ball is generally for pins 6 and 10 only.. sometimes the 9 (the only pin where i sometimes use hook ball and sometimes use spare ball).. all other pins, i hook it..

[MICHAEL]

The only pin I had CHRONIC, HABITUAL, CONFIRMED problems with was the 10 pin. I have been using my Alien, that use to Hook like a no-bodies-bussiness!! I have taken it to the sauna with with me at the YMCA, looked kind of (strange) me in my bathing suit, ant a 15 lb red alien on two towels beside me, but it seemed to work. Lucky for me I didn't have to purchase a membership for the Alien. Have had it sanded ect... even had a good friend that can crank the ball with high rev's. ,,, and nothing!! It has on a
1 to 10, hook flare what ever at the end of the alley,,,, a 3 maybe compared to other balls. Only good thing is it has just enough grab that when I throw it at the 10 it grabs
the edge and straitens out and get it. I use to get it maby 30 percent of the time. Now maybe in the 70 to 90 percent range.... some night better then other.

[TheSheibs]

I'm a lefty and I use the same ball for my first and to pick up spares. For your problem with getting the ten pin, I think of how I get the 7 pin. I stand all the way to the right and throw it over the middle arrow. I also throw it at such an angle that it curves back to hit the pin. I would think that if you stood to the far left side and through over an arrow, depending on how much curve the ball has, you would be able to have the ball curve back enough to hit the 10 pin. If you can pick up the 9 pin then your really close and just need to move your mark over a little bit to hit the 10 pin. There really is no need for a second "spare" ball. My grandfather bowled for 60 years or so and only used one ball. A good bowler can pick up any single pin with the same ball that they throw for a strike. He doesn't need a "special" ball for picking up spares. It's all about consistency. If you hit the mark you are aiming for, you will get the 10 pin everytime. I can get botht he 7 and 10 pin anytime in any lane conditions because I know what my ball is going to do and I know where I need to hit to get those pins.

[billf]

I'm a lefty and I use the same ball for my first and to pick up spares. For your problem with getting the ten pin, I think of how I get the 7 pin. I stand all the way to the right and throw it over the middle arrow. I also throw it at such an angle that it curves back to hit the pin. I would think that if you stood to the far left side and through over an arrow, depending on how much curve the ball has, you would be able to have the ball curve back enough to hit the 10 pin. If you can pick up the 9 pin then your really close and just need to move your mark over a little bit to hit the 10 pin. There really is no need for a second "spare" ball. My grandfather bowled for 60 years or so and only used one ball. A good bowler can pick up any single pin with the same ball that they throw for a strike. He doesn't need a "special" ball for picking up spares. It's all about consistency. If you hit the mark you are aiming for, you will get the 10 pin everytime. I can get botht he 7 and 10 pin anytime in any lane conditions because I know what my ball is going to do and I know where I need to hit to get those pins.

Would that be any single pin spare on any lane condition?

[eugene02]

Would that be any single pin spare on any lane condition?

or just a single pin spare on your bowling alley?

[TheSheibs]

I would say any single pin any alley. It shouldn't matter what the lane conditions are or oil pattern. The oil pattern starts to go away with the more times a ball goes over it. IF you are consistent and hit your mark every time, you should be able to hit any single pin anywhere you bowl. For example look at the pros. They are on a different lane every weekend and can still hit their mark, get strikes, and pick up one pin spares. They also are very consistent and accurate. Not to mention know exactly how to pickup anything they encounter. That is what a good bowler is, consistent.

[billf]

But you use the same ball, 99.9% of the pros do not. Are you suggesting that you can hook a ball at any single pin spare with any lane condition and consistently convert at a high rate?
I'm not trying to antagonize just not sure we are on the same page. Other than WRWJr who has a career spare percentage over 90% and the legendary Earl Anthony I can't think of another who could be so blase about converting spares.

[eugene02]

I would say any single pin any alley. It shouldn't matter what the lane conditions are or oil pattern. The oil pattern starts to go away with the more times a ball goes over it. IF you are consistent and hit your mark every time, you should be able to hit any single pin anywhere you bowl. For example look at the pros. They are on a different lane every weekend and can still hit their mark, get strikes, and pick up one pin spares. They also are very consistent and accurate. Not to mention know exactly how to pickup anything they encounter. That is what a good bowler is, consistent.

that's good than! really good!

[TheSheibs]

Yes, I would say that I could. When I was younger I was taught how to throw a strike but since the pin action is unpredictable, was also taught how to pick up spares. With focus being on picking up spares, I have had a lot of practice doing so. Picking up a single pin has to do with hitting your mark and knowing what the ball is going to do. Every time you throw your ball, you should know how much it will hook, if your release was good, if you hit your mark, and what side of the pin it will hit. The oil pattern matters less and less with the more times a ball goes down the lane. Also they dry up throughout the game. Too much emphasis is being placed on these oil patterns and lane conditions. Do you ever hear a pro say they lost the game due to the oil pattern? No, you don't. When it comes to a consistent bowler, lane conditions and oil patterns don't matter. I have seen people get frustrated with the lane conditions because they only know how to bowl on one type of lanes so when you put them on a lane they are not use to or don't know how to adjust, you get someone blaming the lanes. When the lanes are not the problem, their ability to adjust to get the ball to the pocket or to hit that single pin is the problem. Very little has to do with the ball used but with the bowlers ability to adjust to the oil pattern or lane conditions.

[TheSheibs]

I'll get off my soap box now. Sorry about the rant.

[JaMau24]

Yes, I would say that I could. When I was younger I was taught how to throw a strike but since the pin action is unpredictable, was also taught how to pick up spares. With focus being on picking up spares, I have had a lot of practice doing so. Picking up a single pin has to do with hitting your mark and knowing what the ball is going to do. Every time you throw your ball, you should know how much it will hook, if your release was good, if you hit your mark, and what side of the pin it will hit. The oil pattern matters less and less with the more times a ball goes down the lane. Also they dry up throughout the game. Too much emphasis is being placed on these oil patterns and lane conditions. Do you ever hear a pro say they lost the game due to the oil pattern? No, you don't. When it comes to a consistent bowler, lane conditions and oil patterns don't matter. I have seen people get frustrated with the lane conditions because they only know how to bowl on one type of lanes so when you put them on a lane they are not use to or don't know how to adjust, you get someone blaming the lanes. When the lanes are not the problem, their ability to adjust to get the ball to the pocket or to hit that single pin is the problem. Very little has to do with the ball used but with the bowlers ability to adjust to the oil pattern or lane conditions.

I will respectfully, strongly disagree. Have you ever bowled on a sport shot? Have you ever bowled on a US Open pattern?

I do agree to an extent, that bowlers need to quit blaming the lanes when it's a freaking typical house shot pattern unless something went drastically wrong in the oiling process. It's a house shot, it won't be that much different each week, if at all.

A sport pattern or PBA pattern is and are very difficult. Have I ever heard a professional bowler blame the lanes? Yes. You've never heard a bowler when talking say something like "Oh ya, those lanes were breaking down fast, it was tough to gauge when to adjust and how much to adjust, but my opponent did a great job at figuring it out."

When a professional bowler is bowling 180's and 190's on the toughest patterns in the world, I'm going to say that it was the pattern that gave them trouble, not themselves. Sure, they have bad days, but mostly when they have a bad score, it's because of the difficult lane conditions.

Again though, you are right, bowlers need to quit griping about the lanes during league when they have a bad night on a typical house shot.

[JaMau24]

Also, I would love to see you continue hooking your ball into your spares when bowling a sport pattern or PBA pattern. Not taking a jab at your game, but I bet you'll miss a few single pins and you'll be shocked at how your ball reacted when it happens. There is a big reason why nearly all the pros throw a completely straight ball into all of the single pin spares. It takes the lane conditions completely out of the equation.

[TheSheibs]

Whenever a good bowler encounters what you mentioned, they are able to adapt very quickly. You might see them miss a spare the first time, but then they adapt that quickly to get it the next time. I have the knowledge to adjust but since I have been out of the game for several years, my ability to adjust after one frame has diminished and it takes me longer to adjust the correct way. This is why there is practice before a league game starts. Also, I have never thought of the lane conditions affecting my ball. Since I am left handed, there are less people throwing balls on the left side of the lanes. I beleive that gives me a slight advantage and why I end up wiping oil off my ball more than a right handed bowler. However I have bowled on different types of lanes, oil patterns, lane conditions,and I am still able to use my curve to my advantage. I do, as necessary throw my ball straighter at some single pins than others. But I also adjust to use my strike ball, first ball, to pick up some single pins. But that would still be using my curve to get the pin.

[eugene02]

wouldn't it be much more difficult to pick up a 7 pin for a lefty like you with a reactive ball o.O

[billf]

I believe for the most part we agree. The reason most pros throw straight at a single pin spare is they don't usually have the luxury of being able to with stand an open frame. A typical league night a good bowler can with stand the occasional open frame. Most sport/PBA oil patterns favor left handers so combine that with the limited number of them and yes there is a slight advantage. Stroker style players also seem to have an easier time converting spares for obvious reasons.
Another thing though may be happening; I don't remember how long you were out of the sport or how long since you've returned but it's possible that the oil patterns play a larger role than when you last bowled competitively. Urethane balls, when they were the standard to use, reacted well and were more predictable albeit with a lot less hook potential.
Kudos to you for being able to flatten out your wrist enough. My daughter is exceptional at that so she only owns one ball and very seldom misses. Personally, since I spent so much time learning to cup and uncup my wrist, I have had problems flattening it out enough to use a reactive ball for spares.
I also agree that way too many bowlers blame everything under the sun for a miss or bad shot rather than realizing or admitting they did something wrong. It gets under my skin when a pin is left and the bowler gripes about being robbed when it's obvious it was a light hit, too deep or too shallow. Even worse is when they cross over (manhattan/brooklyn) and gripe that it didn't strike.

Adjusting on a THS for a spare, no matter how many balls have gone down, is vastly differently than anticipating what the reaction will be on a sport pattern on a section of lane that has had ZERO balls go there and will have a different amount of oil compared to where you were playing. The thickness and length of the oil does affect skid length. If you have no clue how long the ball will skid, how can you properly anticipate where it will break? But like I was trying to say above, with their style strokers have less of a problem than say a cranker.

[billf]

I'll get off my soap box now. Sorry about the rant.

Stay up there. There is nothing wrong with a good debate. I'm not taking it personally and hope you are not either. I just like to make sure I'm understanding that what I'm reading is what is actually meant. Really messes up a good discussion when things get misconstrued.

[TheSheibs]

I don't think it would but right now I am throwing a Comobia 300 Hybrid Freeze and can us the curve to come back in just enough to get the 7 pin. I also throw accross the lane, aiming at the middle arrow to get the 7 pin.

[billf]

http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinski_june_08.pdf

Straighter is greater. Strike for show, spare for dough

[vgw]

Would that be any single pin spare on any lane condition?

I would use my strike ball for the 1 and 5 pin

[billf]

I would use my strike ball for the 1 and 5 pin

I also do for those pins most of the time. I was practicing one day when a teenager I coach was at the lanes picking up a friend. He saw me hook at a head pin. He asked why I did that. I said it was just a strike ball. He quickly put me in my place using my words against me, "If it was just a strike ball to make it and it's still standing, what makes you think throwing it the same way and the same place will hit it now?"
His point was valid though. If there was a check involved, I would throw it straight so why would I practice differently? Well, for fun is why. So now I see who is there before hooking at a spare.