Is this common - takes 15 years to get properly drilled ball

[slmrcs]

I'm curious how common this problem is.

got first finger tip ball when I was 19, in 1996.
Span way to long, could not hold onto it.
For several years after got new thumbs, new balls, going to the majority of pro shops in queens NY.
Nothing worked well.
It took over 2 years and 5 different drillers just to get correct span - I was given by numerous drillers too much reverse pitch and too long span.
Highest average 183. Perhaps getting 4 good releases in a league night.
Eventually gave up.

After 7 year break, friend asked me to go bowling.
Pro-shop was selling old, beat up balls for $10.
As an experiment bought one and asked to have it drilled with 3/8 forward pitch.
(note, years ago, pro-shop guys had looked at me like I was an alien retard for suggesting such a thing - I had told numerous drillers that the ball falls out, I can't hold onto it, and they refused to give me anything but 1/8 reverse ).
Over night, after bowling 4 times over 7 years, using a beat up, 13 lb ball, drilled over holes for a lefty (I'm right handed)
I am incomparably better than when I used to bowled 2 - 3 times every week.
I avg over 200 in practice, and actually feel like I can join a league this year and enjoy bowling, and work on my game, rather than struggle to just hold onto the ball.

But the thing is, I have a very short thumb. it is also not flexible. Doing the "coke bottle" test for lateral pitch, it's obvious I need extreme lateral pitch as well, which I'm working on. Based on what I read online, it could take 10 seconds to look at my hand and realize there is no way I could use reverse pitch. I understand some experimenting needs to be done, and a ball driller isn't going to take a newbie and get it 100% correct right away, but it seems from my experience that most ball drillers are totally incompetent. No driller (and I have maybe 8) ever looked at my hand except to measure span and hole size. As if the concept of thumb length and flexibility was a total non-factor.

Is this experience unique? I suspect there are many more people in my situation who gave up,

[J Anderson]

I'm curious how common this problem is.

got first finger tip ball when I was 19, in 1996.
Span way to long, could not hold onto it.
For several years after got new thumbs, new balls, going to the majority of pro shops in queens NY.
Nothing worked well.
It took over 2 years and 5 different drillers just to get correct span - I was given by numerous drillers too much reverse pitch and too long span.
Highest average 183. Perhaps getting 4 good releases in a league night.
Eventually gave up.

After 7 year break, friend asked me to go bowling.
Pro-shop was selling old, beat up balls for $10.
As an experiment bought one and asked to have it drilled with 3/8 forward pitch.
(note, years ago, pro-shop guys had looked at me like I was an alien retard for suggesting such a thing - I had told numerous drillers that the ball falls out, I can't hold onto it, and they refused to give me anything but 1/8 reverse ).
Over night, after bowling 4 times over 7 years, using a beat up, 13 lb ball, drilled over holes for a lefty (I'm right handed)
I am incomparably better than when I used to bowled 2 - 3 times every week.
I avg over 200 in practice, and actually feel like I can join a league this year and enjoy bowling, and work on my gave, rather than struggle to just hold onto the bowl.

But the thing is, I have a very short thumb. it is also not flexible. Doing the "coke bottle" test for lateral pitch, it's obvious I need extreme lateral pitch as well, which I'm working on. Based on what I read online, it could take 10 seconds to look at my hand and realize there is no way I could use reverse pitch. I understand some experimenting needs to be done, and a ball driller isn't going to take a newbie and get it 100% correct right away, but it seems from my experience that most ball drillers are totally incompetent. No driller (and I have maybe 8) ever looked at my hand except to measure span and hole size. As if the concept of thumb length and flexibility was a total non-factor.

Is this experience unique? I suspect there are many more people in my situation who gave up,

The 15 years is a bit much, but the changing drillers several times seems to be a common story on the forums. I have been very lucky and have never had a ball that gave me so much as a blister.

[billf]

I read your story and was not surprised at all. As it turns out most states don't require drillers or pro shops to be certified and many are not. Then there are the ones that are certified but that was so long ago that it's irrelevant given the changes in technology. Then you have the minority, the ones who take real pride in their job, are certified and actually take continuing education classes, take them seriously and learn from them!
I have been to 3 drillers for my last three sets of balls. I have asked each after they were done where my PAP was. None of them knew but one was willing to let me throw and use an armadillo to find it. Too late. How can it be drilled properly if all measurements are done based on knowing PAP?! All 3 were great guys but I don't need a great guy, I need a great driller!

[slmrcs]

not looking at PAP is one thing. I once had someone drill a weight hole on the wrong side of the ball.

[martin]

most drillers in this area don't look at our PAP i think

[americantrotter]

I go to a shop an hou away beacuse the guy who drills there is great. At my shop it's hit or miss and they guy is green. Not his fault, but neither house in my area puts any money or effort into the pro-shop. Meaning that the most populous area of the state has no pro-shop to trust.

[kev3inp]

We've got a great local guy that we'd never had a problem with. We asked him to slug and change the pitch on my wife's equipment to 3/8 forward and he asked right away if she was dropping the ball. Philosophies of span length and drilling have changed over the last 15 years, too. Sports medicine finally looked into what was happening, too. There are still a lot of dinosaurs out there that didn't keep up, though.

[got_a_300]

most drillers in this area don't look at our PAP i think

Those drillers are not real pro shop guys then if they don't check your PAP before drilling
a new ball. That is the first thing I check on before drilling anyone a new ball besides the
PAP can change over time as you start throwing and releasing the ball differently.

I know from experience that my own PAP has changed from a few months ago it was 4 and 1/8" over
and 1 1/2" up. I have changed the way I throw my ball so before I drilled the last one for myself
I checked my PAP it had changed to 4 ½" over and 1" up so the only time you can not check
someones PAP is if they do not have a ball to start with and then you just do a safe drill on it.

[billf]

Given that PAP can be different for the same person throwing differently, shouldn't I then have a different PAP on my Natural Pearl that I play far right with than my Nexxus or Hell Raiser Revenge that I play at least 30 boards deeper with?

[martin]

Those drillers are not real pro shop guys then if they don't check your PAP before drilling
a new ball. That is the first thing I check on before drilling anyone a new ball besides the
PAP can change over time as you start throwing and releasing the ball differently.

I know from experience that my own PAP has changed from a few months ago it was 4 and 1/8" over
and 1 1/2" up. I have changed the way I throw my ball so before I drilled the last one for myself
I checked my PAP it had changed to 4 ½" over and 1" up so the only time you can not check
someones PAP is if they do not have a ball to start with and then you just do a safe drill on it.

one is the owner of the pro shop but doesn't check out our PAP either.. he basically gives everyone the same drilling.. pin up, just slightly over and to the right of the ring finger..

[got_a_300]

one is the owner of the pro shop but doesn't check out our PAP either.. he basically gives everyone the same drilling.. pin up, just slightly over and to the right of the ring finger..

Hmmm........ sounds like that might be the only way he knows how to drill a bowling ball then. :confused:

[martin]

maybe.. but recently some bowlers saw some bowling reaction video on youtube and asked him to drill their balls with the same layout as in the video (it was Tony Ruocco's layout i think.. with pin down, maximum hook) and he was able to drill it that way..

[MICHAEL]

I agree with your observations billf. I have had good luck with a guy named Trent at NKC AMF! He stands behind his work too. He ask what you want, and he will watch you bowl, look at your ball and make suggestions. He is better then a few other pros, one that has his own place in kansas, IMHO! The Driller, is the KEY, in the process of achieving the results your looking for!

[georgebowl]

I have had balls drilled by three different shops, none asked me for my PAP

[slmrcs]

While they should get PAP and do all that, this from Rvirtualbowling goes into good detail on why that isn't super important for most people: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK5HO__gBJE (most not being everyone on this board).

Myself, just tried new drilling, 3/16 forward and 9/16 left lateral and that is so much more helpful than any layout. Now just need to get that drilled with good layout on a ball less than 11 years old. If someone can't even measure span correctly, they won't get PAP.

[greggas]

Given that PAP can be different for the same person throwing differently, shouldn't I then have a different PAP on my Natural Pearl that I play far right with than my Nexxus or Hell Raiser Revenge that I play at least 30 boards deeper with?
If all you change is your starting point and/or target, the difference will be minimal, if any. But if you're also changing something in your delivery ( especially the release ), the difference could be huge.

[billf]

If all you change is your starting point and/or target, the difference will be minimal, if any. But if you're also changing something in your delivery ( especially the release ), the difference could be huge.

Thank you for verifying what I thought. Yes, I change releases and at times I change release and mark or a combination of both. Whatever spot, release and ball combo that seems to work and feel good that day is what I go with.