Hooking the ball!!!! HELP!!

[eugene02]

I went bowling today and I'm trying to get off my guard as I wanted more revs. But I realized that my ball doesn't rev much. Don't know how to go about doing this.. Can't really afford to get a coach.. Been watching videos on how to hook a ball.. Saw the person beside me hooking his ball real easily.. When I tried, it literally just roll down the lane and have a slight backend hook which hits the pin more of a straight bowler rather thn a hook bowler..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFICpGy_H8Y

like this link.

but what I want is a hook which is like the link below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYi2XqDxbqI

(close to how chris barnes is throwing, rather thn rolling down the lane and the ball does the job - makes me feel like a serious noob >_>)

[I suck at bowling]

What is your current average?

[billf]

cock your wrist at a 45 degree angle. In your stance turn your hand counter clockwise so that your index finger is pointing towards the target. Lock your wrist in at this position. As your swing passes your hip, uncock your wrist rapidly pulling your thumb out and bring your hand straight up and out from under the ball allowing it to roll off the finger tips.

[J Anderson]

I went bowling today and I'm trying to get off my guard as I wanted more revs. But I realized that my ball doesn't rev much. Don't know how to go about doing this.. Can't really afford to get a coach.. Been watching videos on how to hook a ball.. Saw the person beside me hooking his ball real easily.. When I tried, it literally just roll down the lane and have a slight backend hook which hits the pin more of a straight bowler rather thn a hook bowler..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFICpGy_H8Y

like this link.

but what I want is a hook which is like the link below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYi2XqDxbqI

(close to how chris barnes is throwing, rather thn rolling down the lane and the ball does the job - makes me feel like a serious noob >_>)

Its interesting that your examples are from two of the most versatile bowlers in the PBA. On the right conditions, Barnes can and will throw just as straight as Duke. Duke has been quoted as saying something like "I play whatever line the lane tells me to play".

For throwing a hook, revs are only one part of the equation. As long as your thumb comes out before your fingers you will have enough revs to hook.

In my experience about 5 to 10% of the regulars at a bowling center care enough and know enough to help beginners and sometimes intermediates with their games. Some, like my friends Tim and Dave, will just come up to you and start making suggestions. Others are willing to help if you ask them.

[kev3inp]

There's a documentary show that had Fagan's release in superslow motion. I can't remember the name of the show. It seems that the harder someone tries to generate revs the fewer the revs, though.

[billf]

http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinskijune11.pdf

Another Joe Slowinski article. Anatomy of an elite release.

[billf]

http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip20.htm
Bowler's release by Ron Clifton

[aussiedave]

I went bowling today and I'm trying to get off my guard as I wanted more revs. But I realized that my ball doesn't rev much. Don't know how to go about doing this.. Can't really afford to get a coach.. Been watching videos on how to hook a ball.. Saw the person beside me hooking his ball real easily.. When I tried, it literally just roll down the lane and have a slight backend hook which hits the pin more of a straight bowler rather thn a hook bowler..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFICpGy_H8Y

like this link.

but what I want is a hook which is like the link below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYi2XqDxbqI

(close to how chris barnes is throwing, rather thn rolling down the lane and the ball does the job - makes me feel like a serious noob >_>)
The great Earl Anthony had shot almost identical to Duke's - to me it is all about consistently averaging higher scores, not about a fancy hook.
Having said that, all you have to do is to rotate slightly from hand under the ball to around about the 4 0'clock position at the release with a nice strong lift on your follow through. The rotation should happen from about the ankle to the release. This will give you heaps of hook.
ad.

[billf]

Having said that, all you have to do is to rotate slightly from hand under the ball to around about the 4 0'clock position at the release with a nice strong lift on your follow through. The rotation should happen from about the ankle to the release. This will give you heaps of hook.
ad.

Dave, two things. 1. With today's equipment lift is no longer needed and actually a detriment to accuracy. 2. I hope you are releasing at the ankle and just explained this wrong (I know it's hard to put into words what we mean at times). The release should start when the arm is perpendicular to the floor (90 degrees to the floor) for maximum leverage and be completed by the time your hand passes your ankle.

I agree that a fancy hook isn't needed. Hollywood flash is for the friends. A nice, smooth, controllable hook is for scoring. What's funny is how many people want a bigger hook and I've been working on making mine break later and more smooth so I can play the Norm Duke/ WRW line.

One other thing for those new to the terms. "Under the ball" means anywhere below the equator to actually under it. Just in case some didn't know.

[eugene02]

What is your current average?

low.. only a avg 100 - 120 without guard..
with guard it would be 140+

[eugene02]

http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip20.htm
Bowler's release by Ron Clifton

thanks i'll try this coming week on how to throw it like this..

[eugene02]

thanks guys for all your help.. will try again this week and post about it again!

[martin]

i myself have a different problem.. when the lane conditions are medium to dry, my ball (i use a Brunswick Anaconda.. which is for medium oil) over hooks and i tend to go brooklyn (sometimes worse and miss the head pin altogether) but when the lane conditions are heavier, i don't get enough hook.. don't know if it's the ball not suiting the lanes or is it just me doing it wrong..

[billf]

i myself have a different problem.. when the lane conditions are medium to dry, my ball (i use a Brunswick Anaconda.. which is for medium oil) over hooks and i tend to go brooklyn (sometimes worse and miss the head pin altogether) but when the lane conditions are heavier, i don't get enough hook.. don't know if it's the ball not suiting the lanes or is it just me doing it wrong..

Adjustments. As the lanes dry you have to keep up with the "transition" and move your start position left (for righty bowlers) while maintaining your original target. At some point that target will get too far to your right to hit. That's when the 2 to 1 adjustments work. That is, for every two boards you move your feet, your target moves 1 board in the same direction. This allows that ball arc to remain roughly the same but changes where that arc is on the lane.
For a visual example; draw a half circle on a piece of paper. With each end pointing at 12 & 6 notice the arc and area. Now rotate the paper so the ends are at 1 & 7. Same arc but looks different.
For more oil, move the opposite way (right for right handers) while using the above template.

These are for THS not sport patterns. if you want advice on a sport pattern just send me a message with as much info as possible about your style. I will give a detailed answer that should get you to your target in five shots or less.

[eugene02]

Adjustments. As the lanes dry you have to keep up with the "transition" and move your start position left (for righty bowlers) while maintaining your original target. At some point that target will get too far to your right to hit. That's when the 2 to 1 adjustments work. That is, for every two boards you move your feet, your target moves 1 board in the same direction. This allows that ball arc to remain roughly the same but changes where that arc is on the lane.
For a visual example; draw a half circle on a piece of paper. With each end pointing at 12 & 6 notice the arc and area. Now rotate the paper so the ends are at 1 & 7. Same arc but looks different.
For more oil, move the opposite way (right for right handers) while using the above template.

These are for THS not sport patterns. if you want advice on a sport pattern just send me a message with as much info as possible about your style. I will give a detailed answer that should get you to your target in five shots or less.

very detailed teaching! shall learn from this forum as much as I can to improve on my bowling.. jealous on ppl who does lots and lots of rev.. roar!!

[I suck at bowling]

low.. only a avg 100 - 120 without guard..
with guard it would be 140+

Okay, I am a high rev player, but I didn't start out that way. You can't run a marathon just after you start training.

You need to find your own style, trying to copy PBA bowlers will hinder you. Everyone bowls different, and it is important that you feel it out for yourself.

As you find your own style, don't pick up any bad habits. DO NOT spin the ball around your thumb, this will cause blisters, and they are extremely irritating. I used to do this, mainly because I was trying too hard to spin it.

DO NOT flip your wrist over when you release the ball, think like you are shaking someones hand.

You could try cupping your wrist, that would yield results immediately.

[eugene02]

Okay, I am a high rev player, but I didn't start out that way. You can't run a marathon just after you start training.

You need to find your own style, trying to copy PBA bowlers will hinder you. Everyone bowls different, and it is important that you feel it out for yourself.

As you find your own style, don't pick up any bad habits. DO NOT spin the ball around your thumb, this will cause blisters, and they are extremely irritating. I used to do this, mainly because I was trying too hard to spin it.

DO NOT flip your wrist over when you release the ball, think like you are shaking someones hand.

You could try cupping your wrist, that would yield results immediately.


thanks! maybe this week i'll tape my play.. but it's troublesome to bring a camera and a tripod to take a bus! WEW!!! tiring.. but.. i'll see how it goes.. thanks for ur help.. i'll try cupping my wrist during the release to get more revs!

[aussiedave]

Dave, two things. 1. With today's equipment lift is no longer needed and actually a detriment to accuracy. 2. I hope you are releasing at the ankle and just explained this wrong (I know it's hard to put into words what we mean at times). The release should start when the arm is perpendicular to the floor (90 degrees to the floor) for maximum leverage and be completed by the time your hand passes your ankle.

I agree that a fancy hook isn't needed. Hollywood flash is for the friends. A nice, smooth, controllable hook is for scoring. What's funny is how many people want a bigger hook and I've been working on making mine break later and more smooth so I can play the Norm Duke/ WRW line.

One other thing for those new to the terms. "Under the ball" means anywhere below the equator to actually under it. Just in case some didn't know.

Hi Bill. I guess technically, the thumb is starting to exit the hole as you release your grip, but your fingertips are still in the ball until you get about a foot to eighteen inches past your ankle. That is if you are trying to get the ball out onto the lane a bit. I try to get about a yard of loft - to maximize energy at the pins and help prevent roll-out.
Dave.

[billf]

Dave, loft yes. If releasing that far past your ankle works for you, great. Personally, unless the heads are super dry, that's just way too late for me. Ideally, textbook release (ha ha), the thumb exits as arm passes hip, fingers at the ankle of slide foot. Now when I actually see someone with a perfect release, I will let you know. Still comes down to the first rule of coaching; nothing works for everyone so there are NO steadfast rules.

[Mi5hka]

eugene02, all the info your getting on here is AWESOME info and i am also learning to improve my hook and consistency in my game. i would advise you to get a coach somone who can show you in Real life time someone who can show you IN person instead of descriptions on what to do or videos that show you. not mockng anyones intelligence what so ever bc most of the ppl cmmting this thread have helped me also but ive found a GREAT deal of understanding and feeling in my hook wiht a coach by my side watching me one v one. its just somethign about having a certified coach there instead of reading.....but i still read everything to get more knowledge :).

[martin]

Adjustments. As the lanes dry you have to keep up with the "transition" and move your start position left (for righty bowlers) while maintaining your original target. At some point that target will get too far to your right to hit. That's when the 2 to 1 adjustments work. That is, for every two boards you move your feet, your target moves 1 board in the same direction. This allows that ball arc to remain roughly the same but changes where that arc is on the lane.
For a visual example; draw a half circle on a piece of paper. With each end pointing at 12 & 6 notice the arc and area. Now rotate the paper so the ends are at 1 & 7. Same arc but looks different.
For more oil, move the opposite way (right for right handers) while using the above template.

These are for THS not sport patterns. if you want advice on a sport pattern just send me a message with as much info as possible about your style. I will give a detailed answer that should get you to your target in five shots or less.

hmm maybe it's more of being me rather than the ball then.. lol.. i guess i just need more time to find my line..

[eugene02]

hmm maybe it's more of being me rather than the ball then.. lol.. i guess i just need more time to find my line..

normally I need 1 - 2 games to start with thn I'll start to know the lane, than I get better by the 3rd game.. >_> not in league of course..

[martin]

i can't even find my line.. i can get a good line (for me generally it's the 12-13th board out to the breakpoint of about 5-7th board) and get to the pocket every ball for 1 game, then lose it completely for the next, find it again, lose it again and so on.. lol..

[eugene02]

so the idea is to cup my wrist when i'm about to let go the ball after my swing? am i right??

[J Anderson]

so the idea is to cup my wrist when i'm about to let go the ball after my swing? am i right??
Sort of. The Idea is to un-cup the wrist as you release. Some bowlers like Tom Smallwood start with the wrist cupped in their stance and maintain it through the entire swing. Mike Fagan appears to un=cup at the top of the back swing and then re-cup. Some people probably cup and then un-cup right before the release. Cupping through the whole swing takes a lot of strength and energy. Cupping just before release takes a lot of practice to get the timing right and adds some muscle tension at the end of what should be a relaxed, free swing.

[eugene02]

Sort of. The Idea is to un-cup the wrist as you release. Some bowlers like Tom Smallwood start with the wrist cupped in their stance and maintain it through the entire swing. Mike Fagan appears to un=cup at the top of the back swing and then re-cup. Some people probably cup and then un-cup right before the release. Cupping through the whole swing takes a lot of strength and energy. Cupping just before release takes a lot of practice to get the timing right and adds some muscle tension at the end of what should be a relaxed, free swing.

i'm practicing to swing like Mike Fagan who brings up his ball un-cup thn when coming down, cup the wrist to get a good hook.. but nothing much so far.. going to try again this later this week..

[eugene02]

i've tried cupping my wrist when i throw.. can create more revs now than normal.. avg went up from 100's to 130. not too bad for a start.. shall try it again next week.. hope i do better this time round!

[billf]

You will get better with it. Timing the un-cupping for maximum power and revs takes practice.

[eugene02]

You will get better with it. Timing the un-cupping for maximum power and revs takes practice.

hope i catch the technique fast enough before my competition on June 24th :)

[martin]

i used to go with a straight wrist, now i cup it and i get a lot more added revs and much better pin action.. but i go with cupping throughout the swing, otherwise i'll tend to drop the ball.. takes a lot of energy though..

[eugene02]

i used to go with a straight wrist, now i cup it and i get a lot more added revs and much better pin action.. but i go with cupping throughout the swing, otherwise i'll tend to drop the ball.. takes a lot of energy though..

tried cupping the throughout the swing but the swing don't get as high.. therefore lower speed than affect me.. so i play open thn cup..

[martin]

tried cupping the throughout the swing but the swing don't get as high.. therefore lower speed than affect me.. so i play open thn cup..

i don't get that high also on my backswing (about shoulder height?) but my ball speed is ok i think..

[eugene02]

i don't get that high also on my backswing (about shoulder height?) but my ball speed is ok i think..

when i swing my ball goes maybe slightly above my head..

[martin]

when you need to slow down the speed (heavy oil maybe), what do you do?

[eugene02]

when you need to slow down the speed (heavy oil maybe), what do you do?

so far i've only play on THS oil before.. so.. i'll stand more to the right if the oil is slightly heavier.. and rev the same thing..

[billf]

If your backswing is over your head YOU ARE MUSCLING THE BALL! Most bowlers can not swing freely much past parallel to the floor. When you cup the ball doesn't go as high but the wrist does.

[martin]

my backswing is usually about 45-60 degrees to the ground.. the highest i went was about shoulder height (parallel to the floor)

[eugene02]

If your backswing is over your head YOU ARE MUSCLING THE BALL! Most bowlers can not swing freely much past parallel to the floor. When you cup the ball doesn't go as high but the wrist does.

because i bend slightly while walking.. thats why it goes over my head.. or maybe parallel to my head..