New Vivid Not doing it!! [Resolved]

[MICHAEL]

I decided to purchase a new Vivid due to this website and a friend that has one. It looked like a remarkable ball. The pro shop only had a 14lb, in stock, and I had heard that it makes little differance between a 14 and 15. He a (good layout driller) pro shop guy) drilled it a lot like he did on my Undefeated. I am very happy with the Undefeated, it still dives into the pocket like a Missour Mule!! He drilled the ball brought it down to the lanes where I was bowling and I am thinking I am going to get rev's out the gazzula!!! (light ball) Strong hooking ect. It almost looked likke a plastic ball. The lanes had just been oiled, by our new kegel 60 thousand $$ machine. It does a remarkable job of accurate oil. I know it wasen't that, because the Undefeated kicked perfect into the pocket.
its 15 lbs.
He, (the pro) was puzzled as to why the ball did not react into the pocket. What a let down,,,,, the only good experience from having bowled with it was
my hands, and shirt smelled fantastic!!! My wife, wife ran me off into the bed room when she got a whiff of it! I had no idea it was like Viarga, in reverse!!
Can anyone tell me that has a Vivid, why this one was not breaking at the end!!!!!! The Pro said he would make it right!
He drilled it much like the undefeated which works great. He has drilled several balls for me before, and all worked great. Could it be the ball??? At the moment that ball would be nothing but and air freshener for me, or spare ball!! And I alreay have a good spare ball???

As I mentioned above about the effect the fragrance, (from the ball), had on my wife, well I think Storm should make a Cologne for men that matches the various ball fragranceses!!! Who wouldn't want they body to smell as good as their balls!! Just a thought for marketing!!
Maybe a bottle with each ball sold!! ( I am the idea man!) lol... (:)

[travkoiboi]

where is the drill layout where is the PIN? I got a vivid and my fingers are under the pin little offset to the right... i get a strong backend... to be honest it's all backend. But it is a lot of ball for most shots... a fresh house shot with some oil in front is really only time i can throw it. I throw it about 30 to 5-10 then back in.

[bowl1820]

More info is needed:
what was the layout (post a pic if you can or look at the storm drilling sheet and see which layout is closest to yours Click here for PSA_Lightning_Stikes.pdf (http://stormbowling.com/drill-specs/PSA_Lightning_Stikes.pdf)), how fast were you throwing it compared to your other ball, what line were you trying to play.

The Vivid is for a heavy oil condition, it is possible if there's not enough oil (even if it's a fresh shot). That the ball can be burning up early, standing up and look like it's not doing anything. But assuming it was a fresh THS (typical House Shot). I'll guess you to be over throwing it.

When dropping weight, yes at first you'll get a few more rev's (A 15# to #14 move will get you about a 3.5% gain in rev's). But you'll also be throwing it faster and if the rev's don't match the speed. You'll throw it right through the break point.

It sounds like you got a #14 ball just because that's all they had. if so that was the wrong reason to drop weight in a ball. If you change weights, there should be a technical reason for doing it.

[billf]

And dropping weights can also lead to a slight mistiming issue if not done consistently. Timing being off slightly can alter everything after it.

[eugene02]

maybe because of weight drop and not used to the ball yet?

[jaydee]

Considering the effects of the smell, it sounds like you still got your moneys worth!

And ya, what everyone else. In particular, just because the house was oiled fresh, does not mean that it was oiled "heavy", which is what this ball would require. The Undefeated has a pearlized coverstock so it's going to handle a "medium" oil pattern than the Vivid, though they have similar core properties. I haven't thrown the Undefeated but it uses the same coverstock as the original Mission which I do own and that ball is remarkably versatile. The Vivid is a strickly heavy oil ball.

Also, where were you throwing? Up the outside, across the middle?

[MICHAEL]

I was hoping to get more rev's with a quicker release. The rev's looked about the same as with the 15lbs Undefeated. I threw it from the same spot, same speed, as the Undefeated. The Undefeated has huge hook just prior to going into the pocket. I was hoping that the lighter ball would all rev's. The part that I found strange is that it went
flat into the pocket. The pro shop guy, Trent, was there watching me throw both balls. He said that it was strange that it did not kick into the pocket toward the end.
We have one of the best lane conditioners out there pretty new. It sprays the oil down and cleans lanes in one trip down and back.
Remember, Fressh oil, the Undefeated behavied as usual, so it was not the lane.... my only other question is, could it be the drilling. That's what we will look into later today!!
Very unhappy with the balls response. Trent, (the pro) said we havd similer bowling styles, and didn not see a problem with my Rev's or style. Wow was I surprised how little
hook I got.... I could easly throw a 16lb ball. Should I move up... I don't think its the weight being the problem, but trent said he would make it right, and if that meant a new ball he would exchange it. He look very puzzled too. God Did It Smell Good.... I want one.... just one that has some punch and angle at the end...

[jaydee]

I was hoping to get more rev's with a quicker release. The rev's looked about the same as with the 15lbs Undefeated. I threw it from the same spot, same speed, as the Undefeated. The Undefeated has huge hook just prior to going into the pocket. I was hoping that the lighter ball would all rev's. The part that I found strange is that it went
flat into the pocket. The pro shop guy, Trent, was there watching me throw both balls. He said that it was strange that it did not kick into the pocket toward the end.
We have one of the best lane conditioners out there pretty new. It sprays the oil down and cleans lanes in one trip down and back.
Remember, Fressh oil, the Undefeated behavied as usual, so it was not the lane.... my only other question is, could it be the drilling. That's what we will look into later today!!
Very unhappy with the balls response. Trent, (the pro) said we havd similer bowling styles, and didn not see a problem with my Rev's or style. Wow was I surprised how little
hook I got.... I could easly throw a 16lb ball. Should I move up... I don't think its the weight being the problem, but trent said he would make it right, and if that meant a new ball he would exchange it. He look very puzzled too. God Did It Smell Good.... I want one.... just one that has some punch and angle at the end...

What you're failing to grasp is, that it could still be the lanes. "Fresh oil" really doesn't mean anything, nor how expensive this kegel machine costs. If it's a fresh oil on Kegel "Easy Street" pattern which is something like 38 ft and 19 mL volume, a "medium hooking" ball like the Undefeated will probably hook more than the Vivid (ball would burn up early). If it's fresh oil on Kegel's Stone Street, which is 42 ft long and and has a volume of 24 mL of oil, I would expect the Vivid to hook more. The ball has to match the lane condition.

I'm not saying it is the lane condition, I'm just saying you can't rule it out.

[MICHAEL]

point taken! I just know this is the oil pattern used at my alley, and if thats the case, ,,, well the ball would wind up talking the place of my plastic ball for ten pin spares.
Remember the Pro was there, he has lots of experience, bowled in college ect..ect.. And he was puzzled? I hope to get this figured out soon... he has drilled many balls for me, and all preformed perfectly... one was a mutant cell, Alien. (similar balls to the vivid I would think)?

[The Mayor]

I almost guarantee that the ball is burning up. The Undefeated is not a super strong ball, medium oil at best. So if that ball is working well, what does that tell you? It's probably medium oil. The Vivid is much stronger than the Undefeated and needs much more oil to perform as it is intended. This isn't to say that you can't make the Vivid work better on these lanes. Taking the coverstock to 4000 or adding a coat of polish over the box finish should allow you to see more reaction. This is also the easiest way to see if it's actually the lanes or if there was another issue.

[jaydee]

I almost guarantee that the ball is burning up. The Undefeated is not a super strong ball, medium oil at best. So if that ball is working well, what does that tell you? It's probably medium oil. The Vivid is much stronger than the Undefeated and needs much more oil to perform as it is intended. This isn't to say that you can't make the Vivid work better on these lanes. Taking the coverstock to 4000 or adding a coat of polish over the box finish should allow you to see more reaction. This is also the easiest way to see if it's actually the lanes or if there was another issue.

Pretty much what I was thinking. Also, if the house wall is set up around the 10-12 board and he throws the Undefeated up the 8 board, that would be way too dry for the Vivid. I second the recommendation to take the surface up to 4000 grit and/or polish as the next step.

[MICHAEL]

I have decided to keep the ball, even tho, its a little bit dissapointing. I found that if I stand to the far right, and throw easy, inbetween the 1st and 2nd arrow, it makes it to the pocket. I will have Jason, (who won a Vivid on this web site, throw it). He is a cranker, and the way his is drilled it works great. Maybe its just my style of bowling, I tried many different approches but found the only one that worked was one mentiond above,, had the 7/10 two times in a role,,,! I never get that with the Undefeated/Alien/mutant cell. This ball reacts very differantly then the 3 mentioned. It almost seems like a entry level resin ball... Little better then a plastic ball, ((( I hate to say that))! Trent watched me, ( the driller, alley pro). There was oil on the ball every time it came back, I had to wipe it off. So.... I am not sure... I am attached to it, like holding a small puppie, and it smells good. ((Call me weird,, you woulden't be the first)), but its part of my ball family. I will try to figure out how to get the most out of it... will try some of the things you
mentioned above. Thanks for all your help, (The Mayor) I have a big show down with Jason friday for quite a bit of money,,, ( I think its up to a Zillion smacks)). I will be interesting to see how he works it. He a cranker,,, and he loves his Vivid, it was love at first sight!! Me on the other hand, its the first ball I have ever had in my short bowling time, that didn't blow me away on the rear end. Again, thanks.. I will figure out a way to make it work!

[JaMau24]

I have decided to keep the ball, even tho, its a little bit dissapointing. I found that if I stand to the far right, and throw easy, inbetween the 1st and 2nd arrow, it makes it to the pocket. I will have Jason, (who won a Vivid on this web site, throw it). He is a cranker, and the way his is drilled it works great. Maybe its just my style of bowling, I tried many different approches but found the only one that worked was one mentiond above,, had the 7/10 two times in a role,,,! I never get that with the Undefeated/Alien/mutant cell. This ball reacts very differantly then the 3 mentioned. It almost seems like a entry level resin ball... Little better then a plastic ball, ((( I hate to say that))! Trent watched me, ( the driller, alley pro). There was oil on the ball every time it came back, I had to wipe it off. So.... I am not sure... I am attached to it, like holding a small puppie, and it smells good. ((Call me weird,, you woulden't be the first)), but its part of my ball family. I will try to figure out how to get the most out of it... will try some of the things you
mentioned above. Thanks for all your help, (The Mayor) I have a big show down with Jason friday for quite a bit of money,,, ( I think its up to a Zillion smacks)). I will be interesting to see how he works it. He a cranker,,, and he loves his Vivid, it was love at first sight!! Me on the other hand, its the first ball I have ever had in my short bowling time, that didn't blow me away on the rear end. Again, thanks.. I will figure out a way to make it work!

Ya, I'll throw it. I'm interested to see how much less it reacts than mine.

[MICHAEL]

interesting point was brought up to me by the pro that drilled the ball. He said that the Undefeated ball was a weaker ball that did not lose its energy going down the front part of the lanes, and when it hit the drier area, thats why it dove into the pockcket. Hummmmm could that be the case? Can you look at the ball going down the lane and be able to SEE if its USING up its energy too soon? The Rev's look about the same to me... is energy loss something you can see some what or not???? help

[MICHAEL]

I tried throwing it several different ways,,, across the middle it did not come back for me! Only one that seemed to work was standing far right, and between first and second arrow. Its different then any of my other balls,,,, (Red Alien/mutant cell/Undefeated)..... It will take some time getting use to it! All the other balls, right out of the box lots of strikes,,, and great hooking into the pocket, with great angle... bowled A 298,,, with the alien... have had some great scores, just not that consistant!!!! Maybe its my AGE!!!
But I still hope to hit that 300/700 series,,, then the lord can call me home!! (:)

[bowl1820]

interesting point was brought up to me by the pro that drilled the ball. He said that the Undefeated ball was a weaker ball that did not lose its energy going down the front part of the lanes, and when it hit the drier area, thats why it dove into the pocket. Hummmmm could that be the case? Can you look at the ball going down the lane and be able to SEE if its USING up its energy too soon? The Rev's look about the same to me... is energy loss something you can see some what or not???? help

"Hummmmm could that be the case?" YES, that's exactly the same thing that just about everyone just said in theirs posts!

The ball was burning up (losing energy). And yes you can watch a ball going down the lane and see it. You can see the ball stop hooking and roll out (standup).

And given if your a right hander, throwing it easy, inbetween the 1st and 2nd arrow. Is the wrong move. Your throwing in even more dry there. The move is to go farther left and throw across the higher amount of oil in the middle of the lane. It will retain more energy for making the corner at the other end of the lane.

Also you can change the surface, maybe take it to 4000 with some polish. That will let it retain more energy also.

[MICHAEL]

"Hummmmm could that be the case?" YES, that's exactly the same thing that just about everyone just said in theirs posts!

The ball was burning up (losing energy). And yes you can watch a ball going down the lane and see it. You can see the ball stop hooking and roll out (standup).

And given if your a right hander, throwing it easy, inbetween the 1st and 2nd arrow. Is the wrong move. Your throwing in even more dry there. The move is to go farther left and throw across the higher amount of oil in the middle of the lane. It will retain more energy for making the corner at the other end of the lane.

Also you can change the surface, maybe take it to 4000 with some polish. That will let it retain more energy also.


OK>>> so I am Thick HEADED!! I am learning!! Now you have me worndering about the pro that was watching me?? I will have Jason film one of my throws and maybe you can see it Roll Out,,, it looked almost like a plastic ball spinning counter clockwise, with no noticable change down the lane then a ever so slight turn to the left light into the pocket,... I didn't see the loss of energy...
I will figure this out!!! , I listen, and try to apply the knowledge you all are givning me.
I know that I can bowl some great series, and games with undefeated! I want this ball to be a great ball too... I think it will be once I figure it out,, I am getting close. (((other then you mentioned that throwing it down the out side is the wrong thing to do)) And that makes sence. I do know that their is less oil there.
What type of ball does Norm Duke throw..... he seems to play that line?? ((again I will get it,,, give me time,, I have only found out about your informative web site a few weeks ago!!! thanks... I am going to get Jasons opinion on the ball Friday.... He bowls GREAT with his Vivid,,, but then he is a Cranker super high revs.

[eugene02]

"Hummmmm could that be the case?" YES, that's exactly the same thing that just about everyone just said in theirs posts!

The ball was burning up (losing energy). And yes you can watch a ball going down the lane and see it. You can see the ball stop hooking and roll out (standup).

And given if your a right hander, throwing it easy, inbetween the 1st and 2nd arrow. Is the wrong move. Your throwing in even more dry there. The move is to go farther left and throw across the higher amount of oil in the middle of the lane. It will retain more energy for making the corner at the other end of the lane.

Also you can change the surface, maybe take it to 4000 with some polish. That will let it retain more energy also.


OK>>> so I am Thick HEADED!! I am learning!! Now you have me worndering about the pro that was watching me?? I will have Jason film one of my throws and maybe you can see it Roll Out,,, it looked almost like a plastic ball spinning counter clockwise, with no noticable change down the lane then a ever so slight turn to the left light into the pocket,... I didn't see the loss of energy...
I will figure this out!!! , I listen, and try to apply the knowledge you all are givning me.
I know that I can bowl some great series, and games with undefeated! I want this ball to be a great ball too... I think it will be once I figure it out,, I am getting close. (((other then you mentioned that throwing it down the out side is the wrong thing to do)) And that makes sence. I do know that their is less oil there.
What type of ball does Norm Duke throw..... he seems to play that line?? ((again I will get it,,, give me time,, I have only found out about your informative web site a few weeks ago!!! thanks... I am going to get Jasons opinion on the ball Friday.... He bowls GREAT with his Vivid,,, but then he is a Cranker super high revs.


i would also try how they taught me in this forum today later on.. will post about it later.. hope i'll get the right technique!

[bowl1820]

MICHAEL if your going to quote another post, try and use the "reply with quote" button. Don't just copy and paste it, that makes it hard to tell which is the quote and which is the reply.

Or if you don't use the reply with quote button , you add the html tags for a quote


Example:

Some text I want to quote

will do this

Some text I want to quote

[bowl1820]

It might be hard to see the balling out in a video, just depends on the video. Also remember it might not be that, the ball could just be to light for you and your over throwing it.

[The Mayor]

Michael, did the pro shop guy offer to take the ball in a change the surface for you when he said the weaker ball was saving energy? If not, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! Not all pro shops are created equal. Just because it's called a pro shop doesn't mean the person running it is a pro. It seems like this guy either doesn't know much, or doesn't care enough. Both reasons to take your business elsewhere. Also, I'm sorry if we sound mean or if we're attacking you. We just want to help you and not have you waste more money when there can be an easy solution. Please change the surface of the ball to 4000 with polish and report back with the results! :)

[jaydee]

Michael, did the pro shop guy offer to take the ball in a change the surface for you when he said the weaker ball was saving energy? If not, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! Not all pro shops are created equal. Just because it's called a pro shop doesn't mean the person running it is a pro. It seems like this guy either doesn't know much, or doesn't care enough. Both reasons to take your business elsewhere. Also, I'm sorry if we sound mean or if we're attacking you. We just want to help you and not have you waste more money when there can be an easy solution. Please change the surface of the ball to 4000 with polish and report back with the results! :)

Bolded for emphasis. Though I would probably try 4000 without polish first, throw a few shots and then add polish if it's still not hooking enough.

Either way, if you don't like the reaction of a ball, first thing to do would be to alter the surface!

Also, is there a balance hole? Are there three holes in the ball or 4? If you add a balance hole in the P3-P4 area, you can enhance the hook, potentially by quite a bit.

[MICHAEL]

No problem, I am use to being attacked, I have been married my whole life!!!! Thanks again for the advice... Should I have the balance hole and sand 4000?
Or would you recomend one or the other first!!?? I am going to take it out this afternoon at a different AMF.... see how it works there! Believe it or not, I do appreciate VERY much your patience!!! You all have a big head start on me,,, and I am a quick learner,,, (I think)! Knowledge is POWER!! Again thanks.

[MICHAEL]

ok I will do the 4000 sanding first, if no big differance, then try the polish,,,, then go to a balance hole in the P3-P4 area of ball will let you all know
how it works out!! thanks again... ( I wonder why he put a balance hole in the Undefeated, but not the Vivid)???

[jaydee]

Start with the surface change first. Throw the ball for a week or two, numerous sets, different houses, then worry about the balance. Focus on one thing at a time.

[MICHAEL]

will do!! thanks, I know things will work out, I just lack the knowledge. THATS WHY I AM HERE!! A work in progress!! (:)

[bowl1820]

I wonder why he put a balance hole in the Undefeated, but not the Vivid

Well you don't put a hole in a ball, unless you know you really need it first.

The X-hole in the Undefeated may have just been put in to bring the side weight down the legal static weight limit.

Where as the the Vivid might have been okay as far static weights are concerned and didn't need X-hole.

[JerseyJim]

Before you sand it, you should try bowling on fresh oil, however target the 3rd arrow give or take a few boards. You might find that the Vivid will out hook your Undefeated if it was thrown in the same area. I have a Cell which is a heavy oil ball which won't come out of the bag if my other equipment is performing well. I could change the surface to allow me to use it on medium house conditions however I brought it to use on sport patterns and heavy house patterns.

[MICHAEL]

Yes the ball is legal according to the pro.... We did the 4000 grid,,, and tried it out on fresh oil. No differance (:(..... none at all... I have never been so
dissapointed in my life. I about the same as my plastic ball. Stand in the middle throw One Arrow to the right of center, and it goes like a lazer beam stright
down the all. I had the pro with me today, and I am at wits end. I will have Jason look at it and throw it tomorrow! He has a vivid, and it works great for him, and his style. Maybe its just not the ball for me... sad that it cost me 189.00 to find that out... I am thinking Jason might be able to figure it out.... I hope...
I have two undefeated, balls, Mutant Cell, Alien, and they work fine.... some great scores for a new bee..... but I tried every angle I could, and speed I could!!

[MICHAEL]

I did throw it before sanding several games..... SAME spot as the undefeated, same speed, loft ect... looked like a plastic ball,,,,, then today,,, 4000grit... done by the Pro.... no differance! What a let down. He didn't buy the oil being the problem. All I know is I am very depressed!!! 189.00 for a average spare ball.
(it was good at picking up the 10 pin, where as that would be very difficult for me to do with the Undefeated/Mission ball! (:(.....

[MICHAEL]

No luck, talke to the pro Trent, and told him what was mentioned on this site... he did sand it 4000, and no change at all? He watched my throw the ball. It was good at picking up the 10 pin,, even with my rev's it went streight for it... I am depressed!! 189.00 and it behaves like a plastic ball in my case... (:( He dosen't think its the oil at all, and said I might find a time that it will work for me... Ok.... O well live and learn!! (:(

[JaMau24]

No luck, talke to the pro Trent, and told him what was mentioned on this site... he did sand it 4000, and no change at all? He watched my throw the ball. It was good at picking up the 10 pin,, even with my rev's it went streight for it... I am depressed!! 189.00 and it behaves like a plastic ball in my case... (:( He dosen't think its the oil at all, and said I might find a time that it will work for me... Ok.... O well live and learn!! (:(

Wow. Sorry to hear that Mike.. Hopefully after I throw it tomorrow I'll get a better idea of what is going on with it. Maybe we'll get it figured out then. It's so very strange though, because I've seen you throw plenty of times and know that you have enough rev's to make that ball break hard. I guarantee you, if you could use my Vivid (finger holes too small unfortunately), you would see a massive difference and a monster hook.

Anyway, see you tomorrow, hopefully we'll get it working for ya.

[bowl1820]

Okay if smoothing the ball didnt help. You can try going the opposite way and dulling it. Maybe 500 abralon followed by 2000 or just 500 by its self.

I'm going to guess the ball is just too light for you. Do the moniters show your ball speed? If so what speed have you been throe it at.

[MICHAEL]

I tried several different speeds, and angles... It dosen't feel to light, goes of the hand well, maybe even better then the 15. It just does dosen't work for me for some reason.... As I have said,,, Jason can throw anybodies ball with his style of bowling.. He almost purchased a Undefeated, after throwing several strikes with my ball. We will know more tomorrow!!! until then hold tight, and I will let you know his thoughts!

[MICHAEL]

It was a 189.00 bag freshener... one sad choice.... my fault.... All my other balls work great... I have not given up, but the light in the end of the tunnel is getting darker!! I can't get it to work. today I tried many different angles played 8 games, and the best I could come up with was a 165 (:(

[billf]

What about the balance hole? Did Trent purposely not drill it or was it just human error and accidently forgot?

[eugene02]

I tried several different speeds, and angles... It dosen't feel to light, goes of the hand well, maybe even better then the 15. It just does dosen't work for me for some reason.... As I have said,,, Jason can throw anybodies ball with his style of bowling.. He almost purchased a Undefeated, after throwing several strikes with my ball. We will know more tomorrow!!! until then hold tight, and I will let you know his thoughts!

maybe his just talented and experienced!! haha

[MICHAEL]

I tried to send a picture of my Vivid layout but the file is to big. Its 956.1 kb I would like for someone to take a look and maybe give me their opinion!! I don't
know how to reduce it, and if I did it would not be easy to see. help!!

[eugene02]

I tried to send a picture of my Vivid layout but the file is to big. Its 956.1 kb I would like for someone to take a look and maybe give me their opinion!! I don't
know how to reduce it, and if I did it would not be easy to see. help!!

open it with paint and resize it to maybe 20 - 20 and it might be able to load already.. try it.

[JaMau24]

I tried to send a picture of my Vivid layout but the file is to big. Its 956.1 kb I would like for someone to take a look and maybe give me their opinion!! I don't
know how to reduce it, and if I did it would not be easy to see. help!!

If anything, I'll just take a photo of it today and post it on here for you.

[JerseyJim]

Where is the lightning bolt located on your ball?

[bowl1820]

I tried to send a picture of my Vivid layout but the file is to big. Its 956.1 kb I would like for someone to take a look and maybe give me their opinion!! I don't
know how to reduce it, and if I did it would not be easy to see. help!!

You can also upload your picture to one of the free image hosting services like imageshack or photobucket. then just post the link back here.

[bowl1820]

Here's MICHAEL's Vivid ball
Click image for larger pic.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/t/raqvn.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/raqvn)

Opinions on what kind of layout it is anyone? It would help if we knew just where the PAP is.
Is your track close to your fingers.

[MICHAEL]

Jason bowled with it today and came to the same conclusion!! With any of my other good balls he can throw several strikes in in a role! He will give his
opinion on the lackless ball. I hate the fact that I paied 200.00 for a ball that at best behaves like my plastic spare ball, in fact picked up a few 10 pin spares today with it. It behaved a lot like my plastic. Jason can't make it work, I can't make it work,,, I wounder some times, if a bad batch of outer shell comes out the factory. It wasen't even grabing much after we boweled 10 games down the out side. The alley mgr, even said that the ball had problems... I had some
GREAT GAMES with the Undefeated against Jason tonight... and he HAD SOME REAL GOOD games against me!! He will post them and his opinion on MY VIVID!
I know the Vivid is a GREAT BALL!!!! Mine just seems to have a problem! 3 other people agree, and can't figure it out! Nothing to do with OIL they all said! Or my style of delivery!!

[JaMau24]

I used Mike's Vivid today. I've gotta say, that ball is just depressing and will drive you crazy. I have a Vivid, as most of you know, and mine just hooks incredibly more than his. Even when I stood to the right, it was very unpredictable. Sometimes it would do anything, other times, it would have a strong hook (surely that is a product of the lanes though). Still, I had a hell of a day bowling today with 3 different balls, and I used his and only got a 178. Even threw a gutter ball with it because it slid off the lane. It doesn't bite at all. I don't think "burning up" is the problem. That being said, I don't know what the problem is. I guess it's just drilled weak?

Here is mine compared to his. Mine is on the left, his on the right. Clearly, mine is drilled more aggressive than his, but I was still blown away at how little his reacted.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w261/astroph/vivid.jpg

[MICHAEL]

More pictures will be posted... He agrees with me that something is not right with the ball? I want to believe its the drilling or me?? Jason said something is wrong!! The ball to me at this point is just a air freshener~~ Jason agrees,, not good for much oil or dry we put it to the test today! Several games! I think Jason had a 171 with it! What do you do with a 200.00 bowing ball that dosent' work!! (:(..... It not like am rich... this was a good chunk for me!

[JaMau24]

I used Mike's Vivid today. I've gotta say, that ball is just depressing and will drive you crazy. I have a Vivid, as most of you know, and mine just hooks incredibly more than his. Even when I stood to the right, it was very unpredictable. Sometimes it would do anything, other times, it would have a strong hook

That's supposed to say, "Sometimes, it wouldN'T ** do anything, other times, it would have a strong hook.

(It won't let me edit it)

[JaMau24]

I should also note, that the only time it had a "strong" hook, was when the outside edge of the lane was bone dry.

[bowl1820]

Here is mine compared to his. Mine is on the left, his on the right. Clearly, mine is drilled more aggressive than his, but I was still blown away at how little his reacted.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w261/astroph/vivid.jpg

OMG Look at how shiny Mikes ball is compared to yours. What did they polish it with? its as shiny as marble. (Looks like it's been in the ball polisher, if has and it has the wrong compound in it. it would plug it up and the ball would be dead as a nail.)

Take it back to the 2000 OOB surface and try it again.

here's how to do it.
The Storm 2000-grit Factory Finish
1. 500-grit Abralon® pad – Sand for 15 seconds on all four sides.
2. 2000-grit Abralon® pad – Sand for 50 seconds on all four sides.
Storm® suggests repeating step 2 from above every 20 to 30 games and both steps
every 60 to 80 games.

[JaMau24]

OMG Look at how shiny Mikes ball is compared to yours. What did they polish it with? its as shiny as marble.

Take it back to the 2000 OOB surface and try it again.

here's how to do it.
The Storm 2000-grit Factory Finish
1. 500-grit Abralon® pad – Sand for 15 seconds on all four sides.
2. 2000-grit Abralon® pad – Sand for 50 seconds on all four sides.
Storm® suggests repeating step 2 from above every 20 to 30 games and both steps
every 60 to 80 games.

Mine also has the dull, factory finish still on it, so it may appear more shiny than it really is.

[MICHAEL]

I just did what was mentioned in and earlier post.... they said to firt try sanding it to 4000.... They were all sure it was buning up. So this is what a ball looks like when sanded to 4000!! I watched trent do the sanding. Then I was told to polish it if that didn't work, (because it was burning up)! Well I haven't polished it yet, and the third thing I was told to do is have a hole drilled to inhance the hooking action! It did not make any noticable differance from how it worked out of the box! Believe me I bowled several games with it before the sanding... after sanding about the same. Again.... I was told the ball was burning up.

[MICHAEL]

Look,,,, I love Bowling!! I am not a complainer at ALL!! But it has been verified by Jason, and we gave it a hell of a chance to show us something today, but NOTHING.. What does a guy do with a 200.00 ball that just dosen't work, or is even unpredictable!!! At Wits end!

[bowl1820]

I just did what was mentioned in and earlier post....
One thing to remember here is, All the opinions here are just best guesses. They are based only on the information given, it's not the same as being there.

When someone says "I have a really strong ball and it doesn't hook at all, it goes straight. But my weak ball is hooking a bunch more." that's a sign the lanes may be too dry and the strong ball is burning up.The fix is either use the weaker ball or adjust the surface of the strong ball to force it into working on the conditions.

So surface changes were suggested to be tried and see if they fixed the problem. If these don't work, then we start the process again.

Now if smoothing the surface didn't work, we would look at going the other way. To a duller surface or adding a X-hole.

There was also my earlier opinion that the ball my just be too light for you. The real test would be if you could throw someone else's heavier vivid for comparison. Is JaMau24's heavier and could you throw it?

There is also the possibility it's a bad ball (Bad coverstock mix), it's been known to happen (though few and far between).


they said to firt try sanding it to 4000.... They were all sure it was buning up. So this is what a ball looks like when sanded to 4000!! I watched trent do the sanding. Then I was told to polish it if that didn't work, (because it was burning up)! Well I haven't polished it yet, and the third thing I was told to do is have a hole drilled to inhance the hooking action! It did not make any noticable differance from how it worked out of the box! Believe me I bowled several games with it before the sanding... after sanding about the same. Again.... I was told the ball was burning up.

As for the 4000 that still looks kind of shiny for 4000. Depends on what the under lying grit is.

[JaMau24]

The real test would be if you could throw someone else's heavier vivid for comparison. Is JaMau24's heavier and could you throw it?


Unfortunately, my hands/fingers are way to small for him. He can't fit his fingers/thumb in, and even if he could, the span would be way to small for him.

[JaMau24]

So surface changes were suggested to be tried and see if they fixed the problem. If these don't work, then we start the process again.

Now if smoothing the surface didn't work, we would look at going the other way. To a duller surface or adding a X-hole.



Wouldn't the factory dull finish already have been "the other way"? Only thing I can think of is, to GO BACK to the dull finish, get an X-hole, and have it drilled more aggressive..

[bowl1820]

Wouldn't the factory dull finish already have been "the other way"? Only thing I can think of is, to GO BACK to the dull finish, get an X-hole, and have it drilled more aggressive..

The OOB was 500/2000 you could drop down to 1000 Abralon or 500/1000 Abralon or 500 Abralon by itself.

Yes going to the OOB dull finish and getting an X-hole, and have it drilled more aggressive is good option. And may be the best one. (And I would think the pro shop should do it for free or at a very reduced cost, since he layed it out that way.) I think after seeing the layout, it's too weak for that light ball.

[JaMau24]

(And I would think the pro shop should do it for free or at a very reduced cost, since he layed it out that way.).

My thoughts as well

[MICHAEL]

I will copy the information you have given me, and talk to the AMF driller. I know he wants to make it right, and he did his best I am sure! He did a fantastic job on my Undefeated!! RIGHT ON! Proff of that was today, I Won from Jason 1 Zillion Smacks!!$$$! It bowled a 233 I believe!! But after that paly of game
he beat me for a Happy Meal!! Who really won??? Me with a Zillion imaginary $$$! Or Jason who will get his Happy meal next week!! Think hard on this one(:)
We both had some Really GREAT GAMES today Jason almost had a 800 series!!!!!!!! 3 great games in a role!!!!! 2 in the 270ssss can't remember the exact score but the last one low 200s... as I recal!!! I am sure he will post them. When Jason is on, (((((( and not betting for MONEY))))), but rather happyness, or should I say Meals that make him happy,,,, he is a formidable opponent!!!! The OLD Grandpa, is still UNDEFEATED,,, ( O) thats the name of my ball (:)!!lol
We have a GREAT TIME bowing on friday afternoons!!!! Wish I could get that Vivid working!!!!!

[bowl1820]

Well if you have him plug and redrill it. Have him find out what your PAP is first and write it down for you. After he drills it have him write down what the layout is. And when you try it note what ball speed your throwing at, most score systems show your ball speed on the monitor. So you can tell us.

Layout example:
4" x 4" x 2"
(4" Pin to PAP x 4" PSA to PAP x 2" Pin Buffer to VAL)

Remember get your:
PAP Location
Layout
Ball speed
and line your using with it.

[JaMau24]

Well if you have him plug and redrill it. Have him find out what your PAP is first and write it down for you. After he drills it have him write down what the layout is. And when you try it note what ball speed your throwing at, most score systems show your ball speed on the monitor. So you can tell us.



Our monitors don't show us the MPH... Is there any other ways we can figure it out, or are we just SOL? (Without bringing in a radar gun, lol)

[JerseyJim]

If you have a multi-function watch or stopwatch, you can time the ball from the point of release until it hits the pins. This calculator will give you the average ball speed.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/bowlingballcalc.html

[billf]

Use a stop watch, most cell phones have one in the tools section. Time from the foul line to the head pin.
I was going to post the ball speed/ rev rate chart I copied from an earlier Bowl1820 post but it says it's too large. I'm not worried though as I'm sure he will come to my rescue!

[JaMau24]

If you have a multi-function watch or stopwatch, you can time the ball from the point of release until it hits the pins. This calculator will give you the average ball speed.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/bowlingballcalc.html

Awesome, thanks.

[eugene02]

If you have a multi-function watch or stopwatch, you can time the ball from the point of release until it hits the pins. This calculator will give you the average ball speed.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/bowlingballcalc.html

wow! didn't know there was such thing... okay. shall try it the next time i go bowling! thanks!!

[bowl1820]

http://www.innovativebowling.com/pro%20shop%20info/Ball_Speed_Chart.gif

[martin]

If you have a multi-function watch or stopwatch, you can time the ball from the point of release until it hits the pins. This calculator will give you the average ball speed.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/bowlingballcalc.html


http://www.innovativebowling.com/pro%20shop%20info/Ball_Speed_Chart.gif

nice.. next time i go, i can estimate my speed.. :D

[MICHAEL]

I am going down this afternoon to talk to Trent. (the driller). I hope to find a solution to this this puzzle. I have all of your suggestions and will relay your thoughts to him. I have copied all the threads for him to see! Thanks for your help!

[eugene02]

I am going down this afternoon to talk to Trent. (the driller). I hope to find a solution to this this puzzle. I have all of your suggestions and will relay your thoughts to him. I have copied all the threads for him to see! Thanks for your help!

hope he'll know whats going on and than do what he can to get you maybe a same but new ball!

[MICHAEL]

Trent Overbey

Manager: AMF Pro Bowl Store

816-221-9797

toverbey@inthezoneproshop.com

Ball Staff Affiliation: Motiv Products

High Game: 300

High Series: 820

High Average: 223



Bio - Trent joined the In the Zone team in June of 2006 where he worked part time at our Topeka location while bowling for the University of Kansas. In his collegiate bowling career, he was a member of the 2004 National Championship team, and won the 2007 Hoosier Classic individual title.



After completing his degree in History, Trent continued to work part-time for In the Zone as well as being the Kansas Bowling Team’s Head Coach. In 2009, Trent was promoted to Manager of In the Zone’s Lawrence location, and in August 2010, Trent became our AMF Pro Bowl Store Manager. Trent’s vast bowling experiences have shaped him into a great coach and pro shop operator. In addition, he provides top notch customer service, where he goes out of his way to help his customers get what they need to be successful.



Away from bowling, Trent enjoys the occasional round of golf, cooking, reading a good book, and spending time with friends and family.


This is the guy that that drilled my ball! A little background! He seems pretty sharpe in regards to bowling, not a newbee type!! Getting ready to check a couple pro shops and get their opinion!

[eugene02]

Trent Overbey

Manager: AMF Pro Bowl Store

816-221-9797

toverbey@inthezoneproshop.com

Ball Staff Affiliation: Motiv Products

High Game: 300

High Series: 820

High Average: 223



Bio - Trent joined the In the Zone team in June of 2006 where he worked part time at our Topeka location while bowling for the University of Kansas. In his collegiate bowling career, he was a member of the 2004 National Championship team, and won the 2007 Hoosier Classic individual title.



After completing his degree in History, Trent continued to work part-time for In the Zone as well as being the Kansas Bowling Team’s Head Coach. In 2009, Trent was promoted to Manager of In the Zone’s Lawrence location, and in August 2010, Trent became our AMF Pro Bowl Store Manager. Trent’s vast bowling experiences have shaped him into a great coach and pro shop operator. In addition, he provides top notch customer service, where he goes out of his way to help his customers get what they need to be successful.



Away from bowling, Trent enjoys the occasional round of golf, cooking, reading a good book, and spending time with friends and family.


This is the guy that that drilled my ball! A little background! He seems pretty sharpe in regards to bowling, not a newbee type!! Getting ready to check a couple pro shops and get their opinion!

wow that's quite some of information on a guy.. like a PI.. think he should be pretty much experienced..

[JaMau24]

For what it's worth, Trent is the same guy who drilled my bowling balls and they work fine for me. So, I don't think he is the problem.

[MICHAEL]

All the balls he has drilled work perfect and do what they are suppose to do! Jason used Trent for both his new balls, the Nexus/Vivid, and he can burn the alley with high games. I do well myself as you can see the scores that Jason has posted. Anyway,,,, Trent said he was going to make some phone calls, and get back to me hopefully by Tuesday...... *****I said Tuesday!!!!! ,,, That night I start my FIRST MONEY league,,,, Jason will be with his friend, against My Wife, and me!!
(plus 8 other teams... $1000.00 pot! 14 weeks! I need that ball working or what ever like yesterday. I will go with the UNDEFEATED I guess! Its won me many millions, trillions Zillions of dollars!!! Just would be nice to have that extra weapon if needed. The Vivid I have now, is not even a good spare ball,,, like Jason said it too unpredictable? (Jason words)... I agree! it will be in my bag until then... I tried to find a good use for it, but coulden't.

[eugene02]

All the balls he has drilled work perfect and do what they are suppose to do! Jason used Trent for both his new balls, the Nexus/Vivid, and he can burn the alley with high games. I do well myself as you can see the scores that Jason has posted. Anyway,,,, Trent said he was going to make some phone calls, and get back to me hopefully by Tuesday...... *****I said Tuesday!!!!! ,,, That night I start my FIRST MONEY league,,,, Jason will be with his friend, against My Wife, and me!!
(plus 8 other teams... $1000.00 pot! 14 weeks! I need that ball working or what ever like yesterday. I will go with the UNDEFEATED I guess! Its won me many millions, trillions Zillions of dollars!!! Just would be nice to have that extra weapon if needed. The Vivid I have now, is not even a good spare ball,,, like Jason said it too unpredictable? (Jason words)... I agree! it will be in my bag until then... I tried to find a good use for it, but coulden't.

Just use the undefeated for now I guess?? since your already used to that ball.. stick with it for awhile! bear with it till tuesday until Trent calls you back!

[MICHAEL]

http://youtu.be/uGPuhNSxSRU me showing bowling speed, style with undefeated... Have had some great games with that ball Fresh oil AMF Play offs for Vegas! this year.

[MICHAEL]

I am learning this stuff ... I will get it figured out soon (:)http://youtu.be/aFH0Sds1KS0 Now you know my style, or should I say lack of style...
I do get some good scores for a newbee!!! (:) had my firt 700 series with Jason Friday. Scores are posted.... Non league, but 3 in series!

[MICHAEL]

I tried to edit, and put them all on one thread, but would not let me edit??? anyway,, http://youtu.be/aFH0Sds1KS0 last one I promise!! Just trying to figure out why the vivid is not working and is unpredictable, erratic, so says Jason, and myself... His Vivid WORKS GREAT,, but when he threw mine it was weak, and iffy going into the pocket?

[JaMau24]

You got robbed in that first video!

[billf]

Michael= Kris Kristofferson on steroids lol
Hey, don't iron workers know what a hair cut is? lol

Keep up the good bowling. 700 is 700 even in practice. One done there can't be long for a sanctioned 700!

[MICHAEL]

billf, You know what happened to Samson after he had his hair cut!! He coulden't bowl 200 from that point on!! lol...(:) I grow it long in the winter, old habit from my working out side days as and Iron Worker! Full Beard, and no hair cuts till spring/summer!! Old habits die hard!! It made a huge differance in the winter working up high on the steel!! Its much shorter now! I would send you a new pictrue but some Holleywood producer would see it and, next thing you know, I am a movie STAR!! The u tube was a couple months ago!! Take care..... m

[JaMau24]

billf, You know what happened to Samson after he had his hair cut!! He coulden't bowl 200 from that point on!! lol...(:) I grow it long in the winter, old habit from my working out side days as and Iron Worker! Full Beard, and no hair cuts till spring/summer!! Old habits die hard!! It made a huge differance in the winter working up high on the steel!! Its much shorter now! I would send you a new pictrue but some Holleywood producer would see it and, next thing you know, I am a movie STAR!! The u tube was a couple months ago!! Take care..... m

They'll get an updated look when ESPN comes to broadcast our Friday match-ups

[MICHAEL]

Yes it is almost on at its closest.. out side edge of thumb hole. What does that tell you??

[MICHAEL]

ESPN,,,,,, O. S. !!! I heard it was in the making,, but I haven't heard a word on the deal!! Give me the details when you get them!!! O. S, Joyce get the clippers out,,, I is going to be on TV!!! What money are we taling here?????? Will it be worth my effort!! LOL..(:) Jason ... do ....you.....really .......want to take on The Old Man again!!

[JaMau24]

ESPN,,,,,, O. S. !!! I heard it was in the making,, but I haven't heard a word on the deal!! Give me the details when you get them!!! O. S, Joyce get the clippers out,,, I is going to be on TV!!! What money are we taling here?????? Will it be worth my effort!! LOL..(:) Jason ... do ....you.....really .......want to take on The Old Man again!!

I'm currently in negotiations with them about money. They said they would pay us 3 billion to broadcast it, including 80% of what the sponsors give them for commercials. I'm trying to get at least 10-20 billion from them! I will let you know when it all gets sorted out. They'll need both our signatures when we do get it done. lol ;) ;) ;)

[Stormed1]

Find out your axis measurements from your driller. For example that layout on my ball would put the pin at about 6 inches with a drilling angle of 30 degrees and a val angle of 70 degrees so it would be early with a very mild move on the back.For another guy i drill for it would be close to 7 inches pin to pap. He had a One drilled at a tournament with a layout like yours and it didn't hook for him till i redrilled it. Have your driller give you the layout numbers it should help us to help you

[MICHAEL]

Lets hope that is the PROBLEM!!! I will get right on it, maybe even today if he is there!! I want this ball to work... It Looks, smells, and feels good, just no rear end movement. IF THIS WORKS, If this is the problem, I will send you HALF of my winning from Jason last Friday, which was,,,,,,if , I remeber correctly..
One Zillion $$$! Thanks for information, l hope its as simple as that! I know when I was having the ball drilled, I did say I want as much back end, ( kick into the pocket as possible)! I tried it out on two different alleys, and it was the same on both. It was not burning up from oil! Have had some long time bowlers look at it including Trent, who is a Coach and collegieate bowler. Not sure if the picture on and earlier thread helps to look at?? thanks again~~ I want this ball to work like I KNOW it should from watching others, like Jason bowl with it!!

[MICHAEL]

Looked at your arsenal!! Too bad you don't have more balls to choose from (:) LOL. It looked like to me, what HEAVEN must look like after you get there and open your eyes!! lol.... mike

[MICHAEL]

WELL Jason,,,, I will try to work a game in this coming Friday,,,,, (IF THATS WHAT YOU REALLY WANT),,,,, young man in the prime of your life!!! Yes, I am so rich now form the last two fridays,,,,, (UNDEFEATED), that can you imagine what will happen when I get my VIVID working like, yours!! I might be old enough to be your Grandpa,,, but remember Jason!!! With Old Age comes wisdom!! I never bet you with my physical abilities,,, YOU have a fantastic delivery, great power, and rev's and ball action!! I could tell you just what it is that when (THE GAME FOR BIG BUCKS IS UP FRONT AND IN YOUR HANDS), where was I going with this thread/????? ,,,, getting old,,,, yes ... and old man,,,, beating youth!!! Will it happen AGAIN FOR A HAPPY MEAL!!! Yes Jason,,, I think its about the money!! I think its too much pressure for you to handle.... Me on the other hand, having been and Iron Work, ,, working sometimes hundreds of feet in the air,,,
well lets just say PRESSURE IS MY MIDDLE NAME!! Please get a hold of my lawyers,,,, send them the final work up!! They are and Oriental Law Firm called:
Sue Man Sue! ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT THIS JASON!! (:) IF I GET THE VIVID GOING, IT WILL BE VIVID VS VIVID!!! WHICH MAN CAN MAKE IT WORK, WHEN THE CHIPS ARE DOWN,,,, YOU,or ME!! Maybe bowling for a Happy Meal, you will get that victory you have been wanting! No PRESSURE
lol,,, LOL (:)

[Stormed1]

I admit it I'm a ball whore. A lot of whay i drill is to be able to give opinions on balls that not everybody throws to customers. Most of my stuff has less than 20 games on it when i sell it

[eugene02]

I admit it I'm a ball whore. A lot of whay i drill is to be able to give opinions on balls that not everybody throws to customers. Most of my stuff has less than 20 games on it when i sell it

well! you've opened a pro shop.. makes you easier to get the balls at a cheaper rate.. if i have a shop as well, i'll most likely to get much much more balls! as many as i could store!

[billf]

well! you've opened a pro shop.. makes you easier to get the balls at a cheaper rate.. if i have a shop as well, i'll most likely to get much much more balls! as many as i could store!
Not just another pro shop either. That pro shop has a good, solid reputation. Next time I visit a friend in Calamut City I plan on getting a ball there as well.

[eugene02]

Not just another pro shop either. That pro shop has a good, solid reputation. Next time I visit a friend in Calamut City I plan on getting a ball there as well.

thats good to hear! a good pro shop is what all people need.. not someone who knows a little bit and tries to open a shop and ruin everything!

[bowl1820]

Glad to hear the problem with the Vivid has been found ( A bad coverstock, which happen once in awhile) and has been replaced by a Virtual Gravity, Good luck with the new ball Michael.

[eugene02]

wow glad to hear that!! rare to see such cases!! have fun michael!!!

[The Mayor]

Why would they replace it with a Virtual Gravity and not another Vivid? lol

[eugene02]

Why would they replace it with a Virtual Gravity and not another Vivid? lol

true.. nvr really thought of that as well.. any answers??

[itstherookie2012]

i think you gotour money worth on the smell...ha ha ha..

i have to buy one of that...

[MICHAEL]

Not sure myself other then that's what he offered me. He is in my humble opinion,,, (( AND YOU ALL KNOW HOW HUMBLE I AM) (:), One heck of a driller, and knows how to lay out a ball, and what ball will do what for who. He came down and watched me bowl with the Undefeated, and Vivid several times! He also knew that Jason who can pick up any of my balls, including maybe even a coconut, and throw a series of strikes!! Its strange, I would liked to have won the ball given away here just to see FOR SURE! I know the Virtual Gravity, works great, right out of the drilling box I bowled with it last week and had a first game of 235 in league play.. So I really do think the Vivid had issues.. Anyway he made the choice for me, and as far as the Vivid I had goes, it was worthless to me. Jason bowled a whole game with it and had a scoe of 171. He mentioned it was not even stable, consistent~~~ So I now have the sweet smell of Orange Mint!!! OOOO YEESSS!!! And the style of drilling used for my other ball the undefeated, and Alien! I even took th Vivid to a Catholic Preist and had a Exorcism performed for $30.00 and no luck!! It was beyond even spiritual help!!

[eugene02]

get over it mike.. you got a new ball being replaced already! hahahaha move on! go forward and not look back!

[MICHAEL]

get over it mike.. you got a new ball being replaced already! hahahaha move on! go forward and not look back!

thanks eugene02, ,,, I needed that!!! I hope you win so you can have 14 bowling balls!! I only have 3 now!! Its like the Title to that James Bond Movie: 3 is not enough!! lol (:)

[Etrain]

i hope my vivid will be fine

[eugene02]

thanks eugene02, ,,, I needed that!!! I hope you win so you can have 14 bowling balls!! I only have 3 now!! Its like the Title to that James Bond Movie: 3 is not enough!! lol (:)

14 bowling balls!?!?!?! comeon.. i only have 2 at the moment... long way to reach a good number of 14..

[MICHAEL]

Be happy with two balls eugune! That's all most men have... ! When you start going over that number, it gets hard finding places to put them! lol (:)
Me on the other hand, I have lots of room!

[eugene02]

Be happy with two balls eugune! That's all most men have... ! When you start going over that number, it gets hard finding places to put them! lol (:)
Me on the other hand, I have lots of room!

HOHO!!! That sounded totally wrong... hahahah.... well.. my house have space to put them even if i have more..

[MICHAEL]

I know I am bad,,lol,,, but better to be bad, then not at all~~ (:)

[alanbcook]

Sounds like its burning up too fast.... I have had similar issues with some of the bowlers that have bought Vivids ~ they need some head oil or they burn up to fast....

[bowl1820]

Sounds like its burning up too fast.... I have had similar issues with some of the bowlers that have bought Vivids ~ they need some head oil or they burn up to fast....

Just so you know the burning up issue has been covered in the earlier replies.