Problem with ball hooking to soon or too late?

[TheSheibs]

So I've been reading about people having their ball hook too soon or not enough which resulting in not being able to hit the pocket. My last year of league bowling, I, being left handed, ran into a problem where I could not get my ball to hook like it use to. I tried everything, speeding up the ball, slowing down the ball, moving a board or two to one side or the other. I tried everything I could think of. Then I was talking to my grandfather, who stopped bowling at 88 due to not being able to hold the ball like he use to, and he suggested that I set up like I usually do and then move back just a little bit, not several inches but enough to change my starting position. It took me a few throws to get the adjustment needed but I was once again able to get the curve or hook that I had before. Too bad I also found out that I needed a heavier ball but thats a different story.

So heres a question. What do you do when your ball is hooking too much or not enough?

[billf]

Depends on my mood and lane conditions. I either change balls, move my feet and or target or even where I look on the lane. I even change axis rotation with a different release. Not the best ways to do it but it keeps it different.

[eugene02]

when the ball is hooking too much maybe that the player is inflicting more revs on the ball or the lane is too dry for the ball.. time to change to a lesser hook rating ball.. when the ball hooks not enough, it could mean that the person used too much strength that the ball was overpowered and just skid right through without biting the lane to get back into the pocket.. change to a higher hook rating ball..

[striker12]

for me if the ball is hooking too much i stay where i am for 1 more shot and streghting out my revs more and see what it dose and if it still over hooks i will mvoe left cause im a righty and open the lane up alot and then if the ball is still hooking too much i will go to a different ball thats weaker normaly my mid or entry lvl ball and if both of those are still voer hooking i will use a urathane ball and normaly it works perfectly.

if the ball dose not hook enoph i will move right and streghting up the lane and keep the same revs as i did on the first shot and keep adjusting my revs and speed

[eugene02]

the key is to adjust and to get the right spot! hahaha

[Florida Bowler]

I have found that I can change speed and have success changing the hook. I will slow it down to get more hook and speed it up to get less hook. Once the lanes start breaking down, I will start to move my feet and target.

-DJ

[TheSheibs]

Last night during my league, we noticed that no one on our team was having their ball break or curve like it should. One person started throwing at the head pin and I moved to the left and changed my angle that the ball was thrown. Low and behold my ball started to curve. I bowled a 198. It was an interesting night. Later we found out that the lane oiling machine had broke and was putting down more oil than it should have put down.

Question: Could the extra oil on the lanes still be effecting the ball after 2 games with 7 right handed bowlers and one left handed bowler? The lanes are also real wood. Could it be the extra oil that was obsorbed into the wood be causing this problem?

Lesson learned: if my ball is not breaking like it should I need to move one dot to the left and still aim for the same mark.

[billf]

It's possible. depends on how thick it was laying the oil down. Most house shots are 20ml thick while sport patterns average 50ml in the heavy area. Theoretically a broken machine could lay down a lot more than that.

[billf]

The real question is how thick, how far and how wide. Chances of it breaking evenly are slim at best.

[TheSheibs]

The real question is how thick, how far and how wide. Chances of it breaking evenly are slim at best.

That's what was happening. We were all having the ball break unevenly. Same shot, same ball, same path and it would break very late, like a foot or so later than it should. Most of the righties where breaking and hitting between the 3 and 6 pins. I, lefty, was hitting the opposite of that.

I also feel bad. After the first game I thought about moving to the left, but figured I had gotten a nice path going and that enough of the oil had been either obsorbed or pushed off. I knew to make the adjustment but didn't. I was also going to make an adjustment comment to my team mates but since they are older than me and have bowled a lot more than I have, I figured they would pick up on it. Oh well. There's still next week.

[ursus]

It's possible. depends on how thick it was laying the oil down. Most house shots are 20ml thick while sport patterns average 50ml in the heavy area. Theoretically a broken machine could lay down a lot more than that.


ml is a volume and could be any thickness. I would assume that it is ml per some area (square meter or square foot)

[billf]

So we will have to let Kegel know that there sheets that say a pattern is so many ml thick is wrong lol
The machine is automatically set up to put it down so many milli liters thick per ??? but I don't remember what area of measurement it goes by. Could be fun and be square inch

[ursus]

So we will have to let Kegel know that there sheets that say a pattern is so many ml thick is wrong lol
The machine is automatically set up to put it down so many milli liters thick per ??? but I don't remember what area of measurement it goes by. Could be fun and be square inch


Anybody know what the area is that the standard for the ml measurement per ?? refers to

[billf]

It doesn't actually say

Kegel Sport Series - DEAD MAN'S CURVE - 3043 (50 uL), Kegel Team


PATTERN INFOPATTERN GRAPHS & RATIOSPATTERN LOAD DATADOWNLOAD PATTERN FILES


FORWARD DISTANCE: 43

# Start Stop Ld Sp Cr Start F. End F. FT TOil
1 2L 2R 5 14 185 0.00 7.90 7.90 9250
2 11L 11R 1 14 19 7.90 9.80 1.90 950
3 12L 12R 2 14 34 9.80 13.70 3.90 1700
4 14L 14R 3 18 39 13.70 21.30 7.60 1950
5 2L 2R 0 18 0 21.30 26.00 4.70 0
6 2L 2R 0 22 0 26.00 33.00 7.00 0
7 2L 2R 0 26 0 33.00 43.00 10.00 0
8 - - - - - - - - -
9 - - - - - - - - -
10 - - - - - - - - -
11 - - - - - - - - -
12 - - - - - - - - -
13 - - - - - - - - -
14 - - - - - - - - -
15 - - - - - - - - -
REVERSE DISTANCE 32

# Start Stop Ld Sp Cr Start F. End F. FT TOil
1 2L 2R 0 30 0 43.00 32.00 -11.00 0
2 15L 15R 1 26 11 32.00 28.40 -3.60 550
3 13L 13R 2 22 30 28.40 22.20 -6.20 1500
4 12L 12R 2 18 34 22.20 17.10 -5.10 1700
5 11L 11R 2 18 38 17.10 12.00 -5.10 1900
6 10L 10R 1 14 21 12.00 10.10 -1.90 1050
7 2L 2R 2 14 74 10.10 6.20 -3.90 3700
8 2L 2R 0 10 0 6.20 0.00 -6.20 0
9 - - - - - - - - -
10 - - - - - - - - -
11 - - - - - - - - -
12 - - - - - - - - -
13 - - - - - - - - -
14 - - - - - - - - -
15 - - - - - - - - -
FORWARD REVERSE TOTAL
OIL VOLUME: 13.85 mL 10.40 mL 24.25 mL
BOARDS CROSSED: 277 Boards 208 Boards 485 Boards

[TheSheibs]

Yeah, I don't understand ay of that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. What does all that mean.

[ursus]

Yeah, I don't understand ay of that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. What does all that mean.

That make 2 of us

[billf]

Now you understand my confusion. Every time I think I have it figured out the pattern plays differently.

[ursus]

I am going to make it my goal tommorow to figure this oil stuff out

[eugene02]

That make 2 of us

that makes us 3.. LOL!!! can't understand...

[martin]

add that to 4.. i don't know about any oil thickness stuff..

[martinezsam2495]

oh, I never thought about there being too much power released.. .

[MICHAEL]

Depends on my mood and lane conditions. I either change balls, move my feet and or target or even where I look on the lane. I even change axis rotation with a different release. Not the best ways to do it but it keeps it different.

Last night was something I have never experienced in my 2 years bowling!! DRY outside lanes! I know it was oiled! The center of the alley seemed to have oil, but the outside seemed to have NONE! I stand in the middle on fresh oil and shoot the standard second arrow on the right. I use this at both bowling establishments were I bowl. It always, for two years now, has been a very standard GOOD starting point. Right from the start, THIS WAS NOT and option!!
3/4 of way down ball took off left like a bat out of hell!! (not to be comfused with a flesh eating zombie), had to say that lol.
I have the V.G. Nanno, and undefeated. Both were way to powerful no matter where I stood! I wound up using my alien ball that for some reason dosen't have much hook at all anymore, despite getting the oil baked out, and resurfacing! I use it for the ten pin and get it 90 percent of the time now!

Anyway it worked pretty good, going into the pocket standing where I usually would at the start of a series, with the V.G. or Undefeated!

Is there another ball you would recommend that is inbetween the V.G. or Undefeated that might be a good weapon for dry lanes on the outside? My wife had a great series with her Cyclone!! She has been really coming around since I talked her into going finger tip, and then Cyclone!!! If she keeps it up, I will have to
relinguish my spot as anchor soon!! She has HER big brown eyes on Jason!! ( before you even think those thoughts, get them out of your mind loL (:)) She wants to be the Woman TOP GUN!! Who Was it that said, " Dreams are the stuff life is made of"~

[billf]

Mike, I would recommend the Storm Natural Pearl. It's urethane with a good core that still hits hard. It's a good ball for dry lanes. Another thing to try is moving your feet and target left 5 boards, so your feet would be one dot left of center and roll over the third arrow. This would allow your Undefeated the chance to see some oil so it can properly transition through all three phases without losing all the energy before hitting the pins. It's one of the reasons some of us practice starting and hitting different marks even though the ball won't strike. Playing out of the comfort zone is not easy but bowlers adapt.

[MICHAEL]

Mike, I would recommend the Storm Natural Pearl. It's urethane with a good core that still hits hard. It's a good ball for dry lanes. Another thing to try is moving your feet and target left 5 boards, so your feet would be one dot left of center and roll over the third arrow. This would allow your Undefeated the chance to see some oil so it can properly transition through all three phases without losing all the energy before hitting the pins. It's one of the reasons some of us practice starting and hitting different marks even though the ball won't strike. Playing out of the comfort zone is not easy but bowlers adapt.

thanks for the information on the Storm Natural Pearl!! I did try moving left and targeting the 3 arrow, but for some reason it went flat into the pocket! but when standing at that same spot and throwing at the SECOND ARROW it 3/4 of the way down it almost went 90 degrees left!! I think, (but what do I know), there was oil in the center, but bone dry like I have never seen it on the outside.

I don't know what happened to the alien ball, but with it I stood one dot left of center, and was able to aim at the second dot and it went nice into the pocket!
I was going to have the Alien worked on at the pro shop, but decied to keep it the way it is! It works GREAT on my 10 pin leaves, and now I find on dry ouside lanes it works real sweet!!! I will look into the Natural pearl.... don't you have a video on you throwing the peal? I think I actually watched it, but now it will have meaning! Might watch it again if my memory is correct! thanks buddy!!

[billf]

I believe I did do a video on the Natural Pearl

[ursus]

I looked around all day for info on the oil and still didn't find anything. Just made me more determined. I shall find something anout oil volume vs. thickness

[bowl1820]

I looked around all day for info on the oil and still didn't find anything. Just made me more determined. I shall find something anout oil volume vs. thickness
Here's a repost of my thread on oil maybe this will help.
-------------------------

Over in the Ballreviews.com forum a interesting thread was started. (at least to me) About how many units of oil was considered Heavy, Medium and Light.

Well I remembered reading about this in some of my books and magazine, So I looked it up. So here's some of what I found.

First what is a unit of oil defined as, I found this in a 04/05 Spec. manual. (It's in the "Computerized Lane Inspection Program Manual" you can find it on bowl.com)

"A "unit" of oil is defined by the American Bowling Congress (ABC) and Women's International Bowling Congress (WIBC) as 0.0167 cubic centimeters of oil evenly spread over a 1 sq. ft. surface, which equates to a film of oil about 7 millionths of an inch thick."

Now in In USBowler Magazine Vol.2, No.3 Spring 2007 Page 12 Coach's Corner They have a article "Everything you wanted to know about lane conditions" In it they say,

Example: a piece of typing paper is about 400 units thick.
(.000007*400=.0028" A 16# bond paper is .0032" thick so that's pretty close.)

"A layer of oil 100-plus units would be considered "Heavy oil" and anything less then 50 units probably would be "Light oil".

Now in from other source's Oil, Medium and Dry is looked at in terms of length.

In the book "Revolutions 2" they define it this way,

Oil (long oil) were lanes oiled 35 to 45 feet.
Med. were lanes oiled 25 to 35 feet.
Dry (very short oil) was 18 to 25 feet.

Now in In USBowler Magazine Vol.2, No.3 Spring 2007 Page 12 Coach's Corner They have a article "Everything you wanted to know about lane conditions" In it they show it as,

Long oil as 40 feet or longer
Medium oil as 35' to 45' feet or more
Short oil 35 feet or less

Now in Bowling This Month magazine they rate ball's for Oil, Medium and Dry, the current issue is showing these patterns being used.

Oily is a 44' oil (High Street)
Medium 41' oil (Main Street)
Dry 38' oil (Easy Street)

High Street, Main Street and Easy Street, These are the Kegel Navigation Recreation Series of patterns. you can see them here.
http://www.kegel.net/patternlibrary/default.asp

Now for a comment it's not how much oil on the lane, but where it's at. Pattern's can be adjusted to make short ones appear long and long ones appear short.

Heres a quote from a article called- "Lane Pattern Basics: An Overview of Blend, Taper & Application".
Click here for the article (http://bowlingknowledge.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=164&Itemid=46)

"the overall volume of the shot probably has the least affect, as the length that the conditioner is applied can make the "volume" almost meaningless."

When it comes to Oil and Oil patterns there are many factor's that come into play about lane condition's and how to play them. The amount of oil is one of the smaller factor's involved.

Updated section-
I ran across this in a past issue of BTM (Bowling This Month). It was in a article about sport shots, but I think it applies with this post also.

They had a chart showing 6 patterns made of combination's of these, with ball and drilling recommendation's for them.

Pattern Length
Short (34' or shorter)
Medium (35' to 40')
Long (41' or longer)

Oil Volume
Light to Medium (20ml. or less)
Medium to Heavy (More than 20ml.)

[ursus]

Thanks for posting that. Clears things up some. Still trying to figure out what that 20 ml is referring to. It appears to be the total volume of oil applied to the lane as 1 ml = 1 cubic centimeter

[bowl1820]

Thanks for posting that. Clears things up some. Still trying to figure out what that 20 ml is referring to. It appears to be the total volume of oil applied to the lane as 1 ml = 1 cubic centimeter

Yes 20ml would be referring to the total volume of oil used on the lane. But that doesn't really tell much, just the over all amount oil used.

You can have several patterns with 20ml, but with different lengths, ratios. One could seem like its oiled all the way to the pins and the other look like its dry as bone, but they would have the same volume of oil.

[MICHAEL]

Mike, I would recommend the Storm Natural Pearl. It's urethane with a good core that still hits hard. It's a good ball for dry lanes. Another thing to try is moving your feet and target left 5 boards, so your feet would be one dot left of center and roll over the third arrow. This would allow your Undefeated the chance to see some oil so it can properly transition through all three phases without losing all the energy before hitting the pins. It's one of the reasons some of us practice starting and hitting different marks even though the ball won't strike. Playing out of the comfort zone is not easy but bowlers adapt.


Bill would you give me your Natural Pearl.....Please??? (:(!!

[MICHAEL]

Wow,,, I guess we are way ahead of most lanes here in Kansas City!! We use Micro-Dip-Sticks to check the oil thickness/depth! You simply clean it off, and touch it to the surface! It then has a digital read out telling you how high the oil is on the surface.... (NO I don't understand either:confused::confused::confused:)

I some WHAT understand, but wonder how to know the quality control over what a machine Acutually puts on the lane, vs, what is is SUPPOSE to apply. HOW do you know?
I guess its a faith thing!! (How could you test the machine)?

[J Anderson]

Wow,,, I guess we are way ahead of most lanes here in Kansas City!! We use Micro-Dip-Sticks to check the oil thickness/depth! You simply clean it off, and touch it to the surface! It then has a digital read out telling you how high the oil is on the surface.... (NO I don't understand either:confused::confused::confused:)

I some WHAT understand, but wonder how to know the quality control over what a machine Acutually puts on the lane, vs, what is is SUPPOSE to apply. HOW do you know?
I guess its a faith thing!! (How could you test the machine)?

Local USBC associations have a number of tools to check that lanes are in compliance with USBC standards for being level and flat. They also have something called a tape reader that can measure how the oil is distributed on the lane. I don't know how it works but I'd like to find out.

[GeorgiaStroker]

Local USBC associations have a number of tools to check that lanes are in compliance with USBC standards for being level and flat. They also have something called a tape reader that can measure how the oil is distributed on the lane. I don't know how it works but I'd like to find out.

If it works the same way it used to 20 years ago they stretch a piece of scotch type tape across the lane at various intervals. The oil sticks to the tape and a computer reads this tape to insure the proper amount of oil is applied to the lane. It's sort of like lifting fingerprints. The oil from your fingers is stuck to the tape.