Pre Bowling Vs Just Carrying YOUR AVERAGE~

[MICHAEL]

My opinion on Pre bowling is this: I think its Not fair for a number of reasons:
1. bowing with a group of other bowlers causes many changes in lane conditions, that one has to adapt too on league day.
2. a pre bowler may have fresh oil for his whole game, without the adjustments one needs to do when bowling with others
3. I am not saying it has been done, but in a busy alley, one would have the chance to cheat, in a number of ways, esp when bowling for big prize money!
4. I don't agree that it can be a disadvantage. You pick you time and alley to pre bowl on.

I see no problem with just having your average be the score used. NOW when NOT bowling for MONEY, I don't have a problem with pre bowling Once in a while.
for good reason, sick, appointment, family ect.

Once good money is involved, there are people that will, and can take advantage! Having your averge carry would make it more Fair. IMHA!!

[MICHAEL]

Do they allow Pro's to pre bowl for tournaments! No.. It just seems fair to me, and a level playing field when ones average is carried, ESP when bowling for money! I know that 99.9 percent are good honest bowlers!! And cheating aside, its the lane conditions and 8 bowlers in some cases bowling on the same lanes that day, that time, that oil condition! How many are for carrying averages for Money leagues! How many think its fair?

[Florida Bowler]

In my experience, I have bowled worse when I prebowl. I bowl better when I'm bowling with people. Also, I do better when we get to the 10th and it's close. When you prebowl, you don't have that adrenaline going. I guess some people bowl better without the pressure. Cheating is much harder than it used to be. With the automatic scoring systems, it is impossible to mark a spare instead of an open.

I'm all for carrying the average instead of prebowling. However, if prebowling is available, I will use it if I'm not going to be able to make it one week. No sense in paying for a week of bowling if I'm not going to bowl.

-DJ

[MICHAEL]

In my experience, I have bowled worse when I prebowl. I bowl better when I'm bowling with people. Also, I do better when we get to the 10th and it's close. When you prebowl, you don't have that adrenaline going. I guess some people bowl better without the pressure. Cheating is much harder than it used to be. With the automatic scoring systems, it is impossible to mark a spare instead of an open.

I'm all for carrying the average instead of prebowling. However, if prebowling is available, I will use it if I'm not going to be able to make it one week. No sense in paying for a week of bowling if I'm not going to bowl.

-DJ
If its the missing out, and paying for bowling, that could simply be taken care of by allowing the bowler to use that paid league amount, to bowl at his leasure the games he paid for in a practice formate! Many do better when there IS NO STRESS, and oil conditions are not changing with multable bowlers using the same lanes.. So its a two sided sword! But totally fair would be carry average

[Florida Bowler]

Another thing that most of the leagues that I've been in is not using the average, but using 10 under the average. That way, it still discourages people from not bowling on league night.

-DJ

[bowl1820]

Do they allow Pro's to pre bowl for tournaments! No.. It just seems fair to me, and a level playing field when ones average is carried, ESP when bowling for money! I know that 99.9 percent are good honest bowlers!! And cheating aside, its the lane conditions and 8 bowlers in some cases bowling on the same lanes that day, that time, that oil condition! How many are for carrying averages for Money leagues! How many think its fair?

Bowling in a Tournament setting is different than bowling in league and would preclude pre/post bowling in the first place.

About the only time anyone says Pre-bowling is unfair is when they lose. As for cheating that's why they use to always have a officer of the league be present to watch.

Pre -bowling is pretty regulated theres no individual pre-bowling unless the league pass's a rule allowing. If a team pre-bowls the opposing team has the option to bowl against at the same time if they want.

Now if pre-bowling is unfair, what about post bowling? is it any less unfair? should it be eliminated ?

Now you could eliminate both, but then you'll have those saying how that's unfair.

I'll say this also, the chances of pre/post bowling on a fresh condition is pretty slim at most houses.

[JaMau24]

Post bowling is usually prohibited in any league I've been in.

Also, I agree with Florida Bowler, I do worse in pre-bowling because A. I don't feel the adrenaline. B. I rush and force into mistakes after I mess up and feel frustrated. C. The lanes are usually always bad and/or you have a bunch of public bowlers around you that don't know lane courtesy. Also, like Florida Bowler said, I will pre-bowl every time I know I won't be there because I'm not paying for bowling I'm not even going to be there for. Even though I usually do bad pre-bowling, at least I actually payed for bowling.

Also, it was the 2nd to last week in my Sunday league last week, and we were ahead of the team we were playing by 3 games (we were in first), they pre-bowled, as they always seem to do when it's an important week. I don't think in any circumstance you should be allowed to pre-bowl with 5 or less weeks left. It was a 210 avg bowler and a 114 avg bowler (his wife). The 114 avg bowler had a 176, 155, and 137. We were screwed because she scored so high and had so much handicap. Now, I'm not accusing them of cheating, but the thought has crossed my mind -- Who's to say that the 210 avg bowler didn't just bowl for her 3 or 4 frames every game? To me, that seems like the simplest form of cheating, and I wouldn't put it past them. They could have been all the way at the end of the alley and no one would ever know if he was bowling for her. I really hope that he didn't, and again, I'm not accusing them, but I've wondered about it. People don't like this guy anyway, and like I say, seems strange they pre-bowled knowing how big of a week it was. So we lose 4 to them (even though we would have beat anyone else in the league that week all 4 games), and we are behind them now with one week left. If they did cheat, I hope karma will catch up to them.

In response to the argument that pro's don't pre-bowl in tourneys... They cant. It's a tournament, not a league. I'll bet you they can, have, and do pre-bowl in any leagues they are apart of.

[JaMau24]

Another thing that most of the leagues that I've been in is not using the average, but using 10 under the average. That way, it still discourages people from not bowling on league night.

-DJ

Ours does this too.

[MICHAEL]

I think everyone is missing my point! Do people cheat,, sure they do, look at our federal goverment! What I am trying to get across is this: Once in a while Pre bowling is ok, for a good reason. It should not be used on a regualr bases, or for a whole season. Are officers always present when pre bowling? I have heard not very often! Whats wrong with carring average for THAT DAy? maybe even as mentioned above - 10 pins?? Seems fair to me??? I have heard form someone on this site of 3 perfect games being pre-bowled. for league play! I am not sure, but I think this person said that there was no offical present! So now you see where I am coming from... Whats Fair tis Fair,,, what could be more fair then to carry your average? Logic?? makes sense to me! As jason mentioned above... it can be questionable when no one is present to watch, and back to the fairness of lanes that might be much more challenging the night of league play, with several bowlers on the same two lanes!

[JaMau24]

It should not be used on a regualr bases, or for a whole season.
Agreed.


Are officers always present when pre bowling? I have heard not very often!
Nope. Certainly not in our area, I don't know about other places.


Whats wrong with carring average for THAT DAy? maybe even as mentioned above - 10 pins?? Seems fair to me???
Whats wrong is you have to pay X amount of money for bowling you didn't even do. Also, if its a 2 person league and you are both going to be gone, and you both don't pre-bowl -- Its a forfiet (at least one of you has to pre-bowl). Same goes if its a 4 or 5 person league and 3 are gone or don't pre-bowl, it's a forfeit.


I have heard form someone on this site of 3 perfect games being pre-bowled. for league play! I am not sure, but I think this person said that there was no offical present!
I'm sure people have bowled perfect games and I'm sure people have bowled their worst games during pre-bowling.. Same goes for any regular night of league bowling, sometimes your on, sometimes your off. Sure, they could have cheated too.. I think someone should be responsible for watching them pre-bowl, especially as you mentioned, if money is involved.

Maybe only have certain points during the week that you are allowed to pre-bowl, and on those dates, they will have someone there watching all of the people that are pre-bowling at that time.


and back to the fairness of lanes that might be much more challenging the night of league play, with several bowlers on the same two lanes!
I agree that if you pre-bowl, you really won't have to adjust as you would if you were at league, but I personal don't see this aspect of it as being as big as deal as you do. I think all the other issues with pre-bowling are more important (the making sure it's legit and no cheating took place part).

[bowl1820]

I have heard form someone on this site of 3 perfect games being pre-bowled. for league play! I am not sure, but I think this person said that there was no offical present!!

In regards to the perfect games done in prebowling. Yes that happened and shortly after that the USBC changed the rules regarding pre/bowling and honor scores shot during pre/post bowling.

As for not having a official present, that was the leagues fault for not requiring one to be there.

[MICHAEL]

[QUOTE=JaMau24;44156]Agreed.


Nope. Certainly not in our area, I don't know about other places.


Whats wrong is you have to pay X amount of money for bowling you didn't even do. Also, if its a 2 person league and you are both going to be gone, and you both don't pre-bowl -- Its a forfiet (at least one of you has to pre-bowl). Same goes if its a 4 or 5 person league and 3 are gone or don't pre-bowl, it's a forfeit.


Yes Jason, under current rules it might be, ( I am just learning the rules, whys and so on!) Just because a rule exists, donen't mean that it can't be changed, or made better. right? If the rule simply stated, you carry your average, witch can be a PLUS, or a minus, depending on how you would have bowled, that day if you were allowed to Pre Bowl. Vs .... prebowl with and official present! Number one I would not want to be and Official! Who knows how many times you would have to make plans to be there in person. ( which dosen't happen anyway around Here from what I can tell).

If its the paying and not getting to bowl for the games paid...(like I said you could get a credit for them and bowl them at your leisure.)

I don't get it??? Pre Bowling should be a once in a Blue Moon thing. Used when you can't make it for specific reasons. NOT long Term.

Whats wrong with using a SCORE that represents your bowling ability, competence, under league conditions... You can always bowl the games paid for.

OK... I am done on this subject... I have what I think are fair and just ideas on the Pre bowling,,,, and we are all different, and I honnor youR thoughts too!!
It is what it is!! I remember in the 1800's slavery was looked on by many as being Ok,, but not all agreed with that law. And so change!! And for the Good!
This is what Makes American the (with the star spangle banner playing in the backgournd) the great country IT IS!! EVERY ONE CAN HAVE AND OPINION~
GOD BLESS AMERICA,,, AND GOD BLESS, BOWLING BOARD .COM... (:)

[billf]

None of my sanctioned leagues allow pre- or post-bowling. Our summer leagues are not sanctioned and pre-bowling is allowed. One guy pre-bowled a 300 with several witnesses. His jealous friend pre-bowled a 300 in his first game one week later. This guy is a 140 average, at best, bowler. The employee working that day said she was in the back when he bowled his first game. We looked it up on the computer and he had THREE score corrections that game and ZERO the rest of the series when the employee was around. Those games he bowled a 125 and 104. Do I believe him? Hell no I don't but it's not sanctioned so it doesn't matter. What sucks is having to hear him say how he only need two more to catch me. None of mine matter either because all three were in non-sanctioned leagues. But at least I bowled them DURING the league lol

[martinezsam2495]

In my experience, I have bowled worse when I prebowl. I bowl better when I'm bowling with people. Also, I do better when we get to the 10th and it's close. When you prebowl, you don't have that adrenaline going. I guess some people bowl better without the pressure. Cheating is much harder than it used to be. With the automatic scoring systems, it is impossible to mark a spare instead of an open.

I'm all for carrying the average instead of prebowling. However, if prebowling is available, I will use it if I'm not going to be able to make it one week. No sense in paying for a week of bowling if I'm not going to bowl.

-DJ

I have experienced this.. Don't plan on pre bowling again, -_-

[JaMau24]

I agree Mike, rules can be changed for the better. I'm just stating how they are now, and I'm doubtful they'll change them even though they should.

I'll elaborate on what I touched on earlier,

I think it would be good if there were only 3 days a week that allowed pre-bowling. One on Saturday, Monday, and Thursday (or something like that), and all had a time of like 7PM, and on those specific dates and times, there would be an official there to watch anyone pre-bowl. If you aren't there for those times, then you don't get to pre-bowl.

Also, I agree, pre-bowling should only be used rarely. I think I've only pre-bowled twice this whole last year. It's not something I ever abuse, and it's really not something I like to do, sometimes I have to though.

[MICHAEL]

I agree Mike, rules can be changed for the better. I'm just stating how they are now, and I'm doubtful they'll change them even though they should.

We agree on that My FRIEND!!

I'll elaborate on what I touched on earlier,

I think it would be good if there were only 3 days a week that allowed pre-bowling. One on Saturday, Monday, and Thursday (or something like that), and all had a time of like 7PM, and on those specific dates and times, there would be an official there to watch anyone pre-bowl. If you aren't there for those times, then you don't get to pre-bowl.

Here is were I differ with your idea! I think when, and if you bowl a 300 for instance, it should be done on league night with fellow bowlers present, bowling on the same lanes! One can debate if it better oil, not better oil ect ect ect. But the fact is it different on that day the bowler is PRE Bowling! Not to mention the
pressure of other bowlers being present, and seeing them bowl, knowing the pressures that you would not have on a afternoon by yourself. SURE some say it harder bowling by themselfs then with the team. ((Well then why complain about using your average if its much more difficult?)) I look at using your average as a very fair means of what ONE WOULD EXPECT to bowl had they been present?)) I don't thank its fair doing it on a differnt night. HERE IS A GOOD EXAMPLE

A track meet,,,, runners all run on a day when the wind is 15 mph in their face, and they have below average times..... One runner can't make it, so he runs on another night when the wind is behind him at 10 mph. He wins with a better time, better then his average time to date. They give him first place. Is that fair. When your bowling for 1000,00 or 45,000.., do you think its fair for a bowler to bowl on a different night then all the other bowlers... ???

Also, I agree, pre-bowling should only be used rarely. I think I've only pre-bowled twice this whole last year. It's not something I ever abuse, and it's really not something I like to do, sometimes I have to though.


Jason I know you are a VERY HONORABLE young man!! I have NO DOUBT of that!! But guess what? When it comes to MONEY, I have seen Preachers steal from their flock! Its in the news all the time.

I hate to cover this point again but its the main thrust of how I feel about PRE Bowling in SANCTIONED LEAGUES.... where it ALL COUNTS for PRIZES, and MONEY! Like the TRACK example above, the conditions THAT NIGHT are unique,,,, no matter if it is BETTER or WORSE! That person not there WOULD HAVE BEEN
a part of the enviroment that was unique for THAT NIGHT, WITH THOSE BOWLERS THAT THE PRE BOWLER DOES NOT HAVE TO COPE WITH!

A FOR FUN SUMMER LEAGUE IS ONE THING! BUT BOWLING FOR DOLLARS..IS ANOTHER! IT SHOULD BE A FAIR AND EQUAL PLAYING FIELD IN SANCTIONED BOWLING.

JUST MY HUMBLE THOUGHTS.... GEEEEEEEEE.... WHY IN THE HECK IS IT UNFAIR TO USE A PERSONS AVERAGE ANYWAY... i DONT GET IT??

[JaMau24]

A FOR FUN SUMMER LEAGUE IS ONE THING! BUT BOWLING FOR DOLLARS..IS ANOTHER! IT SHOULD BE A FAIR AND EQUAL PLAYING FIELD IN SANCTIONED BOWLING.

JUST MY HUMBLE THOUGHTS.... GEEEEEEEEE.... WHY IN THE HECK IS IT UNFAIR TO USE A PERSONS AVERAGE ANYWAY... i DONT GET IT?? [B]

I think your CAPS key is stuck ;)

[eugene02]

As far as I know for my area.. If you can't reach the bowling center in time, your out of the list. Your name would be taken out.. And your teammates just have to continue.. If i'm not wrong..

[J Anderson]

None of my sanctioned leagues allow pre- or post-bowling. Our summer leagues are not sanctioned and pre-bowling is allowed. One guy pre-bowled a 300 with several witnesses. His jealous friend pre-bowled a 300 in his first game one week later. This guy is a 140 average, at best, bowler. The employee working that day said she was in the back when he bowled his first game. We looked it up on the computer and he had THREE score corrections that game and ZERO the rest of the series when the employee was around. Those games he bowled a 125 and 104. Do I believe him? Hell no I don't but it's not sanctioned so it doesn't matter. What sucks is having to hear him say how he only need two more to catch me. None of mine matter either because all three were in non-sanctioned leagues. But at least I bowled them DURING the league lol

Looks like your sanctioned leagues are in violation of USBC Rule 111b. Copied directly from the USBC Rulebook:
"111b. Reason
A league cannot adopt a rule that would have the effect of not permitting any prebowling/ postponements. The league must grant a prebowl/postponement when the team is unable to field a legal lineup for the following reasons:
1. Some of its bowlers are participating in the USBC Championships, state or local association championship tournaments or attending an annual meeting.
2. There is sufficient cause.
3. An emergency situation."

Personally I hate both pre and post bowling. As far as I can tell it was put in place to promote more participation in the national tournament and has opened the door for all sorts of abuse.

[MICHAEL]

Personally I hate both pre and post bowling. As far as I can tell it was put in place to promote more participation in the national tournament and has opened the door for all sorts of abuse.[/QUOTE]


MY POINT EXACTLY!!! I THINK IS UNJUST, AND AS YOU PUT IT "OPENS THE DOOR FOR ABUSE!! WELL PUT!


jASON CAN YOU "HEAR ME" ,,,,, LIKE BILL, I'AM ALMOST BLIND, AND IT HELPS, SOMETIMES TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT I'AM TYPING!
YES WHEN I BEAT YOU,,,, YOUR GETTING WHIPPED BY AND OLD NEAR BLIND MAN! lOL.....LOL.. (:) THE CAPS HELP ME SEE THE TYPING... BILL YOU MIGHT GIVE IT A TRY! LOL I think I like it!! :)

[JaMau24]

Looks like your sanctioned leagues are in violation of USBC Rule 111b.


Way to go Bill... Mr. "I bowl in unfair leagues"... lol, just kidding with ya.. That is weird though, I'd maybe say something to your league about that if I were you. Unless you one who hates pre-bowling, in which case you can just pretend like you never saw what John just posted. lol :D

[JaMau24]

jASON CAN YOU "HEAR ME" ,,,,, LIKE BILL, I'AM ALMOST BLIND, AND IT HELPS, SOMETIMES TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT I'AM TYPING!
YES WHEN I BEAT YOU,,,, YOUR GETTING WHIPPED BY AND OLD NEAR BLIND MAN! lOL.....LOL.. (:) THE CAPS HELP ME SEE THE TYPING... BILL YOU MIGHT GIVE IT A TRY! LOL I think I like it!! :)

Interesting, typing in CAPS makes the blind see, yet it makes the others with good vision blind. lol

[MICHAEL]

.

Now if pre-bowling is unfair, what about post bowling? is it any less unfair? should it be eliminated ?

Now you could eliminate both, but then you'll have those saying how that's unfair?


YES I think for many of the reasons I have covered that both are very unfair win or lose.
What in the WORLD WOULD BE more fair then on a GIVEN NIGHT, when you can't make it, Your average is used if you pay your bowling?? Its not and advantage, nor a disadvantage.... your average reflects your average,,, just that! How would that be unfair? I just don't get it! I would eleminate all forms of abuse! I think this goes deeper then just whats fair,,,, I am call the FBI Mondy, I have a insider there,,,, I will get to the bottom of this!!! LOL....
Vote for me head of the bowling Rules Committee of the PBA!! A vote for Mike is a vote for fairness, good clean rules easy to follow!
]

[MICHAEL]

Interesting, typing in CAPS makes the blind see, yet it makes the others with good vision blind. lol

Jason push your chair about 5 feet away from you screen, and wear Pete Weber shades!!! WHAT DID I JUST WRITE// O NOW I CAN SEE THE PRINT!!!
LATER BUDDY..... TIME FOR THIS OLD IRON WORKER TO HIT THE SACK

[JaMau24]

.
Now if pre-bowling is unfair, what about post bowling? is it any less unfair? should it be eliminated ?

I think post-bowling is definitely more unfair considering you know what scores you have to beat.


Jason push your chair about 5 feet away from you screen, and wear Pete Weber shades!!! WHAT DID I JUST WRITE// O NOW I CAN SEE THE PRINT!!!
LATER BUDDY..... TIME FOR THIS OLD IRON WORKER TO HIT THE SACK

Haha works better! Alright talk to ya later.

[Hampe]

I don't think any of the leagues here allow for pre or post bowling. If a team can't make it due to emergency or something, then the whole match will get rescheduled and both teams will meet on another agreed upon day to play the match. If only one member of the team is running late, the game starts without them and they get a 0 for each frame they miss. When they arrive at the alley, they can step in and start playing at the current frame.

[MICHAEL]

I don't think any of the leagues here allow for pre or post bowling. If a team can't make it due to emergency or something, then the whole match will get rescheduled and both teams will meet on another agreed upon day to play the match. If only one member of the team is running late, the game starts without them and they get a 0 for each frame they miss. When they arrive at the alley, they can step in and start playing at the current frame.

There YOU GO!!! I agree with your leagues 100 percent~~ other then your method, I still think AVERAGE is a good way to cover for a situation where a bowler can't make it. Its not a disadvantage, nor advantage,,,(((its what you bowl))),,,, it should not be a plus, nor a minus event not being there (((HELLO))!!

And you get your 3 or 4 games that you paid for as practice games at a time of your choice?? Whats wrong with that logic??? DAAAA Scotty Beam me UP!!!

[MICHAEL]

Do the right thing American Bowlers!! Sign my Petition for elimination of PRE, and POST bowing in sanctioned leagues!!
ESP when MONEY IS INVOlVED! We all know MONEY is the root of all Evil, and it CAN bring out the WORSE in humanity!
I am just asking for a fair, (uncheatable) playing field! Am I asking too much???
If you agree please let me know by a (yea) or (nay)
If you think I am out of line here, (I don't care)! I am a proud American that stands up for principles, and I feel strongly about this
injustice, its unfair, and just plain WRONG! IMHO!

[billf]

Interesting, typing in CAPS makes the blind see, yet it makes the others with good vision blind. lol

Mike is just trying to level the playing field for us. But I'm good with leaving my caps lock button off. When I read with the caps I actually yell in my head and get tired of the headaches.

[billf]

Way to go Bill... Mr. "I bowl in unfair leagues"... lol, just kidding with ya.. That is weird though, I'd maybe say something to your league about that if I were you. Unless you one who hates pre-bowling, in which case you can just pretend like you never saw what John just posted. lol :D

What rule? I didn't see any post and have never heard of a John Anderson from Connecticut before in my life lol

Guess as a league president I will have to look into it further. The reasons given by the rules make sense but some people think going out to eat is an emergency.

[JaMau24]

What rule? I didn't see any post and have never heard of a John Anderson from Connecticut before in my life lol

Guess as a league president I will have to look into it further. The reasons given by the rules make sense but some people think going out to eat is an emergency.

Well maybe it is! Maybe it's an important business meeting.. Maybe its a dinner with a hot date. I see the two equally as important ;)

[MICHAEL]

What rule? I didn't see any post and have never heard of a John Anderson from Connecticut before in my life lol

Guess as a league president I will have to look into it further. The reasons given by the rules make sense but some people think going out to eat is an emergency.

I think a league should be able to make the rules on Pre/Post bowling at the league meeting befroe bowling starts. And,,, anybody that thinks Pre/Post is ok, should be eliminated!,,,,, from the bowling league that is!! average, average, average!!! whats wrong with average being used when you don't feel like bowling!
I keep hearing it's the paying for the games..... If thats it, you should be allowed to have those games as practice. Does this seem unfair? If so on what planet?
I am new to bowling, but except for extenuating circustances, like LIFE or Death, (where post bowling would be out of the question, less Zombie bowling), A bowler should be there, or carry his current average.... No cheating..... No benifit, No disadvantage! Bill I know you don't like it and your the president!!!
get this changed ok?? thanks... LOL..... I feel better now.... Wow... feel like a huge heavy stone has been lifted ,,,, (did you hear that Jason)!! Only I can
lift the stone or move it grasshopper!!! lol

[J Anderson]

If I understand the rules correctly, ( good chance that I don't, given the number of times I've read rules explained at BOWL.com and thought how in the world can it mean that!) Leagues can ban bowling unopposed while pre or post bowling. In other words, the team that needs to pre or post bowl would have to do it when the team they were scheduled to bowl against can field a legal line up, so both teams bowl on the same lanes, same conditions. Almost as fair as anyone could want.

[MICHAEL]

If I understand the rules correctly, ( good chance that I don't, given the number of times I've read rules explained at BOWL.com and thought how in the world can it mean that!) Leagues can ban bowling unopposed while pre or post bowling. In other words, the team that needs to pre or post bowl would have to do it when the team they were scheduled to bowl against can field a legal line up, so both teams bowl on the same lanes, same conditions. Almost as fair as anyone could want.

I would agree with that john! Either that or carry average! Bill, Mr. President, please get this matter worked out! lol

[billf]

Mike, whatever I get worked out won't affect you unless you're planning to drive over every other Saturday to bowl in our league. It's just a league president not President of the USBC lol

Maybe you should focus more on your bowling and less on this so you can beat Jason. Two losses in a row. I'm shocked. I bet my imaginary money against you both times but never thought I would win both times!

[MICHAEL]

Mike, whatever I get worked out won't affect you unless you're planning to drive over every other Saturday to bowl in our league. It's just a league president not President of the USBC lol

Maybe you should focus more on your bowling and less on this so you can beat Jason. Two losses in a row. I'm shocked. I bet my imaginary money against you both times but never thought I would win both times!

I know your a league pres,,,, I am a league vp for the over the hill gang at are AMF. I am not sure why, Jason didn't post the pictures of some of my better( practice warm up games , a 225, and a 251.)
and a few other 200 games,,, maybe jason will put then up tomorrow. We both bowled much better then the last game during warm up. But when we say this is it, last game, thats it... and it did not reflect some of the good scores we had! O Well..... always next week.... I honestly think that when we bowl, flip a coin! I started out hot in that last game, two strikes in a role,,, but then as you know, bowling can throw you a curve, and it wound up being one of my worse games that day!

I have won 3 and Jason 2. Jason is one hell of a bowler! I am to old to get that excited, but Jason has his whole life ahead of him, I Just want that 300, which I have been close to on many occasions.... 268s 289s,,, 250.. and last june the 298 in league! Thats my goal....the 300 and the 700 series. Last year I bowled in pain with the RA,,, many times I thought I would have to quite, but I kept at it! This year I feel 50 percent better in that respect. So who knows!
Any way thanks for all your help, and I will try to get him next week .....

[TheSheibs]

My league just had a post bowl issue come up this past week. An entire team couldn't make due to work, being busy, or whatever and called the center to see about making it up the next league ought. Here's where the mistake was made. They talked to a girl at the counter who said she would leave a note about it. First they should have asked to speak to a manager about this. Second is they could have called on league night and talked to the league secretary. What was decided was they had to talk to the league officers and see about a vote. However the league officers all agreed that if the team they were suppose to bowl against agreed them they could make up the week they missed that same night. The other team agreed and once everyone was finished that night the two teams bowled three more games against each other.

I think they should not have been allowed to do this. This would fall under a post bowling situation. Any thoughts? Where the league officer right in allowing this?

[J Anderson]

My league just had a post bowl issue come up this past week. An entire team couldn't make due to work, being busy, or whatever and called the center to see about making it up the next league ought. Here's where the mistake was made. They talked to a girl at the counter who said she would leave a note about it. First they should have asked to speak to a manager about this. Second is they could have called on league night and talked to the league secretary. What was decided was they had to talk to the league officers and see about a vote. However the league officers all agreed that if the team they were suppose to bowl against agreed them they could make up the week they missed that same night. The other team agreed and once everyone was finished that night the two teams bowled three more games against each other.

I think they should not have been allowed to do this. This would fall under a post bowling situation. Any thoughts? Where the league officer right in allowing this?

It really depends on how the league rules are written. My sport league allows no pre or post bowling due to the hassle of having to have a sport pattern put down. My Wednesday night league specifies that the league secretary and opposing captains be informed of the need to pre or post bowl before the scheduled bowling, and give their consent. Only the league secretary contacts the center to schedule the pre or post bowling.

[billf]

My league just had a post bowl issue come up this past week. An entire team couldn't make due to work, being busy, or whatever and called the center to see about making it up the next league ought. Here's where the mistake was made. They talked to a girl at the counter who said she would leave a note about it. First they should have asked to speak to a manager about this. Second is they could have called on league night and talked to the league secretary. What was decided was they had to talk to the league officers and see about a vote. However the league officers all agreed that if the team they were suppose to bowl against agreed them they could make up the week they missed that same night. The other team agreed and once everyone was finished that night the two teams bowled three more games against each other.

I think they should not have been allowed to do this. This would fall under a post bowling situation. Any thoughts? Where the league officer right in allowing this?

If the league doesn't have rules in writing then the USBC rules apply. Given that the league board of directors left it up to the opposing team and all parties agreed, it sounds fair enough. This is where the team captains have input but many are too afraid to rock the boat to oppose what they are really against.

[MICHAEL]

If the league doesn't have rules in writing then the USBC rules apply. Given that the league board of directors left it up to the opposing team and all parties agreed, it sounds fair enough. This is where the team captains have input but many are too afraid to rock the boat to oppose what they are really against.

I will tell you one thing!! This old Iron Worker has rocked the boat many a time!!! And One day, (like you Bill), I will be a president!!! With that power I will make things right down here in Missouri!!! Being just a VP,,,, I really have no power to speak of! But I did get all the members of our old timers league their 3 free game card, (first night of Bowlig)!! They were going to have us wait for 3 weeks.... !! Long story, but I goter done!!

[billf]

Mike, our president quit after many years, in the beginning of the season. I was nominated and was the only one who didn't vote for me. Some of the others told me it was because I carry a rule book with me, don't cheat, speak up when I see someone cheating or being a jerk and have good sportmanship. I also didn't have a problem imposing our written rules like no pay, no play. Our rules state that if you are more than 1 week behind you can't bowl and forfeit your points. It cost my team 1st place but what's right is right.
The team that was in 1st was suppose to bowl a team that was 2 weeks behind and still didn't pay. I forfeited their points putting the 1st place team that much further ahead of us. We bowled them the next 2 weeks (as scheduled and position round) and would have taken 1st place if the forfeited team had earned just 1 point. In my mind though, that means there was a point or several we lost during the season that we should have won and that's what really cost us 1st place. I'm also president of one of our summer leagues but being a non-sanctioned league there is a lot less to be concerned about.

[MICHAEL]

Are FEW!!! I know I BS a lot! But being a GOOD Honest Union Man, I always stand up for WHATS RIGHT! Whats Right is Right bill, and YOU showed that to be true in your thread!!! You sound like the kind of person I would be Good friends with if we lived closer!! I also beleive young Jason is that kind of person, maybe thats why I enjoy his company, even if he beats me on occasion~~ (:)