Why like this?

[eugene02]

Any Idea why Mike Fagan's Finger placement are like this? unlike the usual that i see which is like pete weber's

[billf]

Eugene, Fagan uses what is called a "sarge easter" grip. I heard he went to this due to pain in his hand. Also heard that at first a bowler will lose revs with this grip but it does return to almost normal after a bit.

[billf]

What I have noticed more though is this; hold your hand open. My ring and middle fingers are not the same length and I don't know anybody's who is. So why are all my balls drilled with the fingers the exact same length from the thumb? Every bowler I know whose equipment I have checked is the same. Why?

[eugene02]

mine isn't the same as well.. but no idea too.. >_<

[bowl1820]

What I have noticed more though is this; hold your hand open. My ring and middle fingers are not the same length and I don't know anybody's who is. So why are all my balls drilled with the fingers the exact same length from the thumb? Every bowler I know whose equipment I have checked is the same. Why?

Darn now I have to go find it again, This came up before. I don't remember it all off the top of head.

But I believe it had something to do with the distance of your fingers from your thumb (your ring finger is offset from your thumb farther than your middle finger) and how your fingers bend (the first joint can't bend 90 deg. so is helped by the second joint, which has the affect of shorting the span .

Also the difference in length of your fingers:
Most peoples middle finger "span" is shorter than the ring finger span! Even though the middle finger is longer. The breakeven point is when the middle finger is 5/16” longer than the ring finger according to Bill Taylor.

Here's another post that I believe has to do with this. I still got to find the Org. info about it though.
http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/9166-Ring-and-middle-finger-position

Just wondering what is your middle finger and ring finger span measurement.

If you look at my span measurements , my ring and middle fingers have different spans.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w89/aloarjr810/bowlingxtras/mygrip.gif

From Mo Pinel:
"Depending on how God made the hand, some people will have the ring finger span longer than the middle finger; some people will have them the same; some people will have the ring finger span shorter than the middle finger span."


Here's some info on fitting, it's a old book and some things have changed some. But it might give you some insight.

Bill Taylor's Fitting & Drilling A Bowling Ball ( copy of the book, this was a great find!)
Remember this book is from around the 70's/80's
http://www.brainstormis.com/_downloads/download.php?f=/manuals/proshop/Bill_Taylor_Fitting_Drilling_A_Bowling_Ball.pdf

[austin]

When I drill balls, the vast majority have the ring finger a tad longer than the middle finger. Usually about an 1/8th or so is enough to make a more comfortable fit.

[martin]

what's the sarge easter grip?

[JerseyJim]

what's the sarge easter grip?

It's where the ring finger is drilled conventional. Bowlers like Robert Smith and Mike Fagan went to this type of grip to cut down on their revs. I remember reading in John Jowdy's book "Bowling Execution" that he advised Smith to cut down on his revs to become more successful, and suggested that Smith go to the Sarge Easter grip.

[bowl1820]

what's the sarge easter grip?

The sarge easter grip is where you have the middle finger drilled with a fingertip grip and the ring finger drilled with a conventual grip.

As for it reducing revs thats only when you first start using it. Once you get use to it, your revs will go right back to normal.

[Smiles]

It's where the ring finger is drilled conventional. Bowlers like Robert Smith and Mike Fagan went to this type of grip to cut down on their revs. I remember reading in John Jowdy's book "Bowling Execution" that he advised Smith to cut down on his revs to become more successful, and suggested that Smith go to the Sarge Easter grip.

If I remember correctly, I remember Mike saying in an interview the reason he went to the sarge easter grip is because when he bowls with the regular fingertip drilling, his ring finger felt so much pressure to the point his nail would crack. He said the sarge easter grip was to ease up the pressure he felt. I don't remember him saying anything about the too much revs part.

[bowl1820]

Here's a link to Mikes Blog telling the story about going to the Sarge Easter Grip

http://faganbowling.blogspot.com/2010/08/my-sarge-easter-grip-story.html

[eugene02]

just read the blog.. wow.. maybe for certain people that grip would work.. maybe next time can experiment it... hahaha

[martin]

interesting grip.. makes me wonder.. is there any grip there where it's the opposite of the sarge easter? conventional middle finger and fingertip ring finger?

[TheSheibs]

That is an interesting grip. Kind of wondering how that grip affects the ball down the lane.

[bowl1820]

That is an interesting grip. Kind of wondering how that grip affects the ball down the lane.

Other than taking the ring finger out of play, The only other effects the grip is said to have is, Reducing Rev's and/or a change in axis rotation and possibly issues with balance hole placement. But it just depends on who you ask.

As for it reducing rev's, most now say that it reduces them at first, but once you get use to the grip your rev's go back up.

[DanielMareina]

Great observation!
The Sarge Easter grip is not a good idea for the average joe. I personally can't do it at all, because it doesn't get off my hand fast enough. I have drilled a couple for some people, and it definatley helps keep a little pressure off the back of the hand. As for Pete Weber, he just has a dropped ring finger. That means that the ring is drilled shorter than the middle by a touch. Most the time this is done to create a different axis tilt off the hand.
As far as people's spans being the same for both fingers, that is not the case. Most people have a ring finger span that is 1/16 to 1/8 longer than the middle. Visually, they don't look very different, but usually they are. My hand is within 1/32 of an inch between the two fingers, so it does happen, but most people do have a longer ring finger span.
Lastly, trying to drill a ball with your middle finger conventional and the ring as a fingertip would not work. The middle finger is the balance point for the ball, being that it is in the "middle". The ring finger does most of the revs and tilt, hence why you can adjust that one freely. I would imagine that someone trying the middle conventional would either have a hard time staying behind the ball, or just drop it off into the right gutter.

[martin]

hmm.. i do wonder another thing.. with the sarge easter grip, wouldn't the ring and middle finger come out of the ball at different times? wouldn't that badly affect rev rate, speed, timing and everything?