Fingers on release.

[GoodGorilla]

After using a cup the past few weeks, an observer told me that I am cocking my wrist now. I wasn't aware of it, but I am aware that my ball has got more hook that it did in the past, and I can hook the ball even more when I have to. I am having a harder time hooking less than more now.

[75lockwood]

if you want to lower hook you can do a few things:

speed up the ball (relative speed to rev ratio will cause less hook)
uncup your wrist so that it is straight (for even less hook let the break down)
uncock (if you don't know your doing it this might be moot)
change your axis rotation (i'm not the best at explaining this one)lol

[GoodGorilla]

if you want to lower hook you can do a few things:

speed up the ball (relative speed to rev ratio will cause less hook)
uncup your wrist so that it is straight (for even less hook let the break down)
uncock (if you don't know your doing it this might be moot)
change your axis rotation (i'm not the best at explaining this one)lol

I did good last night throwing less hook. Like you said, I just made an effort to not cup my wrist so much. I think in the future, I should start with less cup if I am playing drier lanes, and start with more playing oily lanes.

[Tampabaybob]

After using a cup the past few weeks, an observer told me that I am cocking my wrist now. I wasn't aware of it, but I am aware that my ball has got more hook that it did in the past, and I can hook the ball even more when I have to. I am having a harder time hooking less than more now.

Think of your wrist as having 3 or 4 notches. If you wanted to throw a straight ball your thumb would be at 0 degrees (straight). Notch 1 your fingers would move left under the ball pointing toward the 11:00 o'clock position. That would be notch one. Notch 2 move your fingers to 10:00 o'clock and notch 3 is at 9:00 o'clock. Being able to cock your wrist in these 4 positions gives you an immense advantage to be able to change your roll depending upon the oil conditions. If it's really dry you can be at 0 or notch 1 for less hook. Make sense? Hope so. Try it you'll see the difference.

Bob

[billf]

Now, what Bob explained will change the roll of the ball by affecting the side roll or axis rotation. Your revs will not change as long as your fingers come out the same. Some bowlers find it easier to get more revs with less rotation. That's fine as the purpose of the rev is to increase skid and push. This offsets the friction created by a dry(er) mid-lane and helps retain energy for the hook phase.
Example: it's easier to speed up a straight ball. All the momentum and angles go in the same direction. That ball still has revs. The axis rotation is zero or close to it but it still revs up. Most crankers the ball rotates counter-clockwise (right-hander) while traveling at an angle that is usually 90 degrees to this rotation. The oil helps but most crankers use high revs to get the long skid and when the ball hits the friction (break point) the ball grabs and turns hard to the direction of rotation.

So class, was the lesson on the difference and purpose of revs and axis rotation explained in a way that everyone understands it? Seriously. This is an area that stumps many people and yes, somehow even some coaches.

[GoodGorilla]

Think of your wrist as having 3 or 4 notches. If you wanted to throw a straight ball your thumb would be at 0 degrees (straight). Notch 1 your fingers would move left under the ball pointing toward the 11:00 o'clock position. That would be notch one. Notch 2 move your fingers to 10:00 o'clock and notch 3 is at 9:00 o'clock. Being able to cock your wrist in these 4 positions gives you an immense advantage to be able to change your roll depending upon the oil conditions. If it's really dry you can be at 0 or notch 1 for less hook. Make sense? Hope so. Try it you'll see the difference.

Bob

I was just looking at my hand while moving it around these different positions. I seems like I am either doing either extreme when I am bowling, and have been making feet adjustments to each. I think to myself, I either need alot of hook, or not very much. I also was trying to maintain the different cocking positions while increasing and decreasing the cup. It seems if I change the amount of cup, it also changes the amount of cocking. I am still confused as to how the change in axis rotation changes the ball path. I'm guessing that the change in axis rotation changes the actual hook direction. More axis gives a tighter hook pattern? Like when the ball is rotating in a specific direction, it will grip and travel in that direction down lane. The direction is determined by the cocking?

[J Anderson]

I was just looking at my hand while moving it around these different positions. I seems like I am either doing either extreme when I am bowling, and have been making feet adjustments to each. I think to myself, I either need alot of hook, or not very much. I also was trying to maintain the different cocking positions while increasing and decreasing the cup. It seems if I change the amount of cup, it also changes the amount of cocking. I am still confused as to how the change in axis rotation changes the ball path. I'm guessing that the change in axis rotation changes the actual hook direction. More axis gives a tighter hook pattern? Like when the ball is rotating in a specific direction, it will grip and travel in that direction down lane. The direction is determined by the cocking?

I don't pretend to understand the physics involved in modern bowling balls. The basic reason that a bowling ball hooks is that axis of rotation is not perpendicular to the the lane. The ball will slide through the oily section of the lane in a straight line. As the ball leaves the oil and gains traction it will transition from its initial direction to one perpendicular to the axis of rotation, the hook phase. After this transition the ball will just roll in this new direction. We often don't see this clearly as it should happen as the ball hits the pins. The simple way to put it is the more axis rotation the more the direction changes. The composition and texture of the coverstock will have a large effect on the shape of the hook as will the design of the ball's core.
If I understand thing correctly the axis rotation is determined by the position of the fingers and thumb at release, not necessarily the amount of wrist cock.

[Tampabaybob]

John.....well put. Very good explanation on the transition the ball will make.

Gorilla..... Changing one's hand position, cocking, and the ability to use different positions, will indeed change not only the axis roll but the amount of hook you should get on the ball. Understand though, this assumes that the ball is thrown exactly the same speed and you're rotating the wrist and fingers exactly the same amount. As I mentioned in an earlier post, this isn't an exercise that a person just get's up there and does automatically. There has to be fore thought as to how you should be playing a particular pattern and how you want the ball to react. It takes a lot of practice not only to be able to accurately hold the hand in a particular position throughout the swing plane, but also knowing when to use these hand positions to gain results.
You are on the right track, try not to over think what's going on at the time. Try one hand position one game or two and then try another. Note the differences in roll, hook, breakpoint, carry, etc, and remember these reactions. If you cup and uncap as well note the differences. Remember the pros bowl lots of games every week and in many cases have a coach or another pro watching and helping them out. Years and years of practice, thousands upon thousands of games, and I still have my aw-shxt moments and wish I could take back certain shots. It's why I laugh when people think bowling is an easy game.

Bob

[AZBowla]

It's why I laugh when people think bowling is an easy game.

Like any good game, it's an easy game to play and a damn difficult one to master. It sure is addictive and fun though. I'd go every day if I could.

[75lockwood]

Like any good game, it's an easy game to play and a damn difficult one to master. It sure is addictive and fun though. I'd go every day if I could.

nobody has been abile to truely master bowling, there are just way to many variables that can cause failure. a 300 average would be nice though