Lol now my ball speed is too high.

[Ball99999]

Look, i agree that Bill could have handled that a bit better, but we're all human, from the sound's of things, bill has been trying to help you for longer than i have been on the site, and last night he finally got annoyed.

Now, what are you doing? publicly insulting someone calling them immature after they spent so much time trying to help you. how is this mature?

It's over, let us be done with it.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. Because this is the way things work, people will take his side when I was clearly right, you're even saying I'm being immature for pointing out he's being immature. Ok. Then people will all stop giving me advice, or discussing things, because "he's the guy that doesn't take anyone's advice and thinks he knows everything." It doesn't makes sense.
Done.

[75lockwood]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. Because this is the way things work, people will take his side when I was clearly right, you're even saying I'm being immature for pointing out he's being immature. Ok. Then people will all stop giving me advice, or discussing things, because "he's the guy that doesn't take anyone's advice and thinks he knows everything." It doesn't makes sense.
Done.

Saying you were "clearly right" is just plain arrogant, like i said, there is no right/wrong way. People are not taking bills side, its simply that bill has come to be a well known and respected person here, and they don't want him to leave, not over something as ridiculous as this whole argument.

[Ball99999]

Saying you were "clearly right" is just plain arrogant, like i said, there is no right/wrong way. People are not taking bills side, its simply that bill has come to be a well known and respected person here, and they don't want him to leave, not over something as ridiculous as this whole argument.

It's not arrogant, what he said was. He said it was incorrect, I said it wasn't since it's different for everyone. That is a fact. I mean look at the scenario. Decades go by, if higher ball position didn't cause higher speed for certain people, it would have been figured out a long time ago, for those specific methods. Then people develop the hinge method and as a result, old speed methods don't work the same way (again not always true even for hinge).

Obviously it's his issue if he leaves and not mine. It's not like I caused it, he just can't stand the idea that not everyone agrees with how he wants everyone to bowl because he has gotten training. It's ridiculous.

[75lockwood]

It's not arrogant, what he said was. He said it was incorrect, I said it wasn't since it's different for everyone. That is a fact.

Obviously it's his issue if he leaves and not mine. It's not like I caused it, he just can't stand the idea that not everyone agrees with how he wants everyone to bowl because he has gotten training. It's ridiculous.

Based on statistics, the method Bill gave is correct, his issue is not with you disagreeing with you but how you made your statements, just like your issue with his, you both got a bit rude, the main difference is bill chose to walk away and cool off where you continued to be insulting, now i recommend you go cool off and come back and we can have level headed discussions on bowling.

Thank you.

[AngeloPD]

Ball, have you tried doing the hinge multiple times? maybe you tried once and gave up and thats why you think it is not for you. it takes a while to get used to.

[Ball99999]

Based on statistics, the method Bill gave is correct, his issue is not with you disagreeing with you but how you made your statements, just like your issue with his, you both got a bit rude, the main difference is bill chose to walk away and cool off where you continued to be insulting, now i recommend you go cool off and come back and we can have level headed discussions on bowling.

Thank you.

If he has an issue with how I made the statement then he has very thin skin. Because all I said was it's NOT incorrect, because it's different for everyone.

See this is what I mean. Because he is the "wise and respected one", as if it was some kind of tribe, I'm the one labeled as insulting. No, sorry, I don't care. I don't like people insinuating that I'm a moronic novice who doesn't know anything about bowling because he paid and got his certification blablabla.

Apparently I can't have level headed discussions on bowling because if I ask so many questions I'm not taking advice, and if I disagree with something, rightly so, I'm calling him wrong. OH WAIT, no that's not me that can't have the level headed discussions, it's the one who has a superiority complex.

[Ball99999]

Ball, have you tried doing the hinge multiple times? maybe you tried once and gave up and thats why you think it is not for you. it takes a while to get used to.

Yes, but I prefer the push away. I've made a conscious decision that I don't want to use it. Plus I feel like a Trex with tiny arms trying to bowl. It's like telling Belmonte he has to use the hinge, it wouldn't make sense.

[Tampabaybob]

Guys, having been a certified coach for several years, let me chime in here for a comment. When I first went to coaching school, we were taught to teach the push-away. At that time, 30 years ago that was the only "accepted" way to teach a bowler how to start their approach. Fast forward 25+ years, and with the advent of computer simulations and video cameras, the mindset has changed to state that the hinge system will help "most" bowlers improve their accuracy. (see the article Bill posted). As a coach I have had to change my thinking and techniques several times over the years. I always do this reluctantly, and with much research. I'm a show me, prove it to me type of guy. I will even try these myself BEFORE I will tell someone else to try it.

With that said, I'm going to agree with Ball9999, in so much as EVERY bowler is not cut from the same thread. What will easily work for some people will NOT work for others. If he states that he's more comfortable pushing the ball away AND can maintain a good accuracy, then I would never attempt to change his style. I might recommend he try the hinge, but as I said if his normal routine is to push the ball away, I would work with him doing that and help him to achieve as good an accuracy rate as possible.

Bill has good intentions, but sometimes......well my opinion. He means well and has offered many people on this site valuable help. Let's not beat him up over one comment.

Bob

[Ball99999]

Exactly, thank you. And thank everyone who gives advice and thank billf I appreciate anyone's advice even if it won't work for me, I'll at least try it.

[Tampabaybob]

As I said in previous threads, I've had many coaches myself over the years and with their guidance, achieved my goal, which was to hold a PBA card. Many times after trying their advice I would find it didn't work for me and I'd go back to my own style. Sometimes you will find what's "right" for you all by yourself. There's nothing wrong with that.

Bob