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Thread: Who is the all time best sports player?

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    OK, I disagree with Montana. Yeah, he was a good quarterback, but without guys that could actually catch the ball, no matter how hard they knew they were going to get hit, he would have journeyman numbers at best. And he had a damn good line to protect him, too. The only other line that good was Marino's and I HATE the Dolphins.

    Jordan was hype? You never saw him play live. If he had players who could hit an open shot more often he'd be the career leader in assists. Kobe is hype. Shaq is has-been hype. I could make a case for Jabbar, however.

    Hockey, perhaps Gretzky, or Orr, ( I like the way that looks), Esposito; not Lemieux??, not even a mention?? Lots of others.

    Any of the "best" in sports took what the previous stars showed was possible and built on it. That's the mark of greatness. To take what the superlative talent was and add to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    I agree Rice is up there, but without the right man throwing him the ball, he is just a wide out. Plus you have to give a lot of that credit to Bill Walsh. It was his system. But no one has ever been as cool under pressure as Montana. He was a true great at the QB position. I think these days Peyton Manning has revolutionized the way Qb's play the game. He knows every position and every coverage. And he does a great job of exploiting them. But I have to give Montana the nod on the football. I was surprised no one was arguing Jordan or Ruth. When you throw out Cobb most times you get Ruth back.
    I'm a Red Sox fan. Do you honestly think I'd try to argue for ruth? Give me a break!!!

    I would think Teddy Ballgame should get some consideration, though.... He wasn't too shabby. And as pitchers go, there was a guy named Cy something-or-other.... I think there's an award named after him now.
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by kev3inp View Post
    OK, I disagree with Montana. Yeah, he was a good quarterback, but without guys that could actually catch the ball, no matter how hard they knew they were going to get hit, he would have journeyman numbers at best. And he had a damn good line to protect him, too. The only other line that good was Marino's and I HATE the Dolphins.

    Jordan was hype? You never saw him play live. If he had players who could hit an open shot more often he'd be the career leader in assists. Kobe is hype. Shaq is has-been hype. I could make a case for Jabbar, however.

    Hockey, perhaps Gretzky, or Orr, ( I like the way that looks), Esposito; not Lemieux??, not even a mention?? Lots of others.

    Any of the "best" in sports took what the previous stars showed was possible and built on it. That's the mark of greatness. To take what the superlative talent was and add to it.
    Well I would disagree on the Montana comment. He did leave the team and bring a not so good team to the playoffs with the Chiefs. Not to mention when he arrived everything kind of just went together. He was so clutch too. You can go back and see the hundreds of interviews by his teammates where they back him and how cool he was under pressure. Plus he was a great leader.

    As for Jordan I contribute him to more hype. Allan Iverson and others have similar numbers. Stats do not mean all that much in my book. He was there for 5 years and the Bulls were crappy. They added the talent around him and he wins 6 titles. Yeah when he left they lost, so it shows he was good, but without his support he was not that great. I have to go Russell. He won on every level. So you can not say it was always his teammates. And if you check some of the older highlights you could see how great of a leader he was. There were nights he got 2 points and his team won. He realized that the game was not about one person. It is a team sport and he played it the best ever. He lead USF to two national championships in 1955 and 1956. At one point they won 55 games in a row. John Wooden once called Russell "the greatest defensive man I've ever seen".

    Plus the 11 NBA titles do not hurt. And for a couple of those he was player/coach. I never saw Jordan do all that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev3inp View Post
    OK, I disagree with Montana. Yeah, he was a good quarterback, but without guys that could actually catch the ball, no matter how hard they knew they were going to get hit, he would have journeyman numbers at best. And he had a damn good line to protect him, too. The only other line that good was Marino's and I HATE the Dolphins.

    Jordan was hype? You never saw him play live. If he had players who could hit an open shot more often he'd be the career leader in assists. Kobe is hype. Shaq is has-been hype. I could make a case for Jabbar, however.

    Hockey, perhaps Gretzky, or Orr, ( I like the way that looks), Esposito; not Lemieux??, not even a mention?? Lots of others.

    Any of the "best" in sports took what the previous stars showed was possible and built on it. That's the mark of greatness. To take what the superlative talent was and add to it.
    Jordan transformed the game. It used to be a game for the big men. Be brought attention to the 1 and 2 guard positions. There's really no question what he did for the game was amazing.

    As far as hockey, Gretzky has the numbers, no question. I love Gretzky as much as the next guy, but IMHO, Lemieux was the most talented there ever was. He simply didn't have the health to back up everything else. If he had been blessed with Gretzky's great health, I think the record books would look a lot different. Plus, Gretzky had Messier for a while. Who did Lemieux have? Before Jagr showed up, I think Ron Francis might have been his best help. Anyone remember the guy?
    Not helping the situation since 1983.


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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    ................
    As for Jordan I contribute him to more hype. Allan Iverson and others have similar numbers. Stats do not mean all that much in my book. He was there for 5 years and the Bulls were crappy. They added the talent around him and he wins 6 titles. Yeah when he left they lost, so it shows he was good, but without his support he was not that great. I have to go Russell. He won on every level. So you can not say it was always his teammates. And if you check some of the older highlights you could see how great of a leader he was. There were nights he got 2 points and his team won. He realized that the game was not about one person. It is a team sport and he played it the best ever. He lead USF to two national championships in 1955 and 1956. At one point they won 55 games in a row. John Wooden once called Russell "the greatest defensive man I've ever seen".

    Plus the 11 NBA titles do not hurt. And for a couple of those he was player/coach. I never saw Jordan do all that.
    I'll never, in a million years, argue Russell as the greatest. I'm a Celtics fan, after all. ESPECIALLY when you consider the racial barriers he had to overcome, and Boston is not the easiest of places to do that!

    BUT, that being said.... Calling Jordan hype... Well, that's a tough one, pal. I don't think anyone could really say anything negative towards Jordan and be taken too seriously. The game was QUITE different before Jordan. He changed things, he did things no one else did, and showed that a guard can take over a game. Don't believe me? Name the top 5 centers in today's game. Now name the top 5 centers of the 70s and early 80s. Compare and contrast. The game has gone away from the big men. Part of that has to do with the 3 point line, but a larger part is what Jordan showed the world.
    Not helping the situation since 1983.


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  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtVandelay View Post
    I'll never, in a million years, argue Russell as the greatest. I'm a Celtics fan, after all. ESPECIALLY when you consider the racial barriers he had to overcome, and Boston is not the easiest of places to do that!

    BUT, that being said.... Calling Jordan hype... Well, that's a tough one, pal. I don't think anyone could really say anything negative towards Jordan and be taken too seriously. The game was QUITE different before Jordan. He changed things, he did things no one else did, and showed that a guard can take over a game. Don't believe me? Name the top 5 centers in today's game. Now name the top 5 centers of the 70s and early 80s. Compare and contrast. The game has gone away from the big men. Part of that has to do with the 3 point line, but a larger part is what Jordan showed the world.
    I would disagree, but I think the best player in the NBA today is Tim Duncan. And a lot of people think I am nuts, but I mean come on he is the best player. He never gets the credit he deserves. So for you to say it is a guards game, I do not think so. Guards can score, but in the game today, defense is more important. And not many great defensive guards.Plus I would take Chris Paul over Kobe and James any day. Give me someone who is going to lead and do what the situation calls for. Duncan is the best now. And Russell best ever. But that is my opinion. But I never liked Jordan, without Nike pushing him so hard, I do not think he would be so big. He made great plays, but was given all the calls. Take away all the calls and he is another Iverson. Plus , I saw Jordan shut down by a lot of big men and great defenders over the years. Give me the team players.

    And just to through another name out there, Robert Horry. Or as many know him Big Shot Rob. You know he has more titles than Jordan. He has 7. And he was always a much better team player than Jordan. Just another one of those great players who do not get enough credit. Now what if he had the same Nike type push?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    I would disagree, but I think the best player in the NBA today is Tim Duncan. And a lot of people think I am nuts, but I mean come on he is the best player. He never gets the credit he deserves. So for you to say it is a guards game, I do not think so. Guards can score, but in the game today, defense is more important. And not many great defensive guards.Plus I would take Chris Paul over Kobe and James any day. Give me someone who is going to lead and do what the situation calls for. Duncan is the best now. And Russell best ever. But that is my opinion. But I never liked Jordan, without Nike pushing him so hard, I do not think he would be so big. He made great plays, but was given all the calls. Take away all the calls and he is another Iverson. Plus , I saw Jordan shut down by a lot of big men and great defenders over the years. Give me the team players.

    And just to through another name out there, Robert Horry. Or as many know him Big Shot Rob. You know he has more titles than Jordan. He has 7. And he was always a much better team player than Jordan. Just another one of those great players who do not get enough credit. Now what if he had the same Nike type push?
    It's okay. I can understand your dislike for Jordan. I hate Kobe, but it's by choice. I'm a Celtics fan. I don't like anyone in a yellow and purple jersey (LSU included, sorry guys, blame LA). I HATE derek jeter.... man...

    But you're wrong about Jordan. I know I can't change your mind, but he was the single most dominant player of his day. EVER?? Highly debatable.

    On a career level, I'll give you Duncan. But if you're talking about the single most dominant player TODAY, or even last year, I'd say you're nuts. He's had a great career. He doesn't get any publicity because he's not flashy, he just does the right thing, and he keeps his mouth shut. 5 or 6 years ago, I think he's in ALL the conversations for MVP (and he was), no question. But right now? Well, he's had a great career, but he's not what he once was. It happens to the best. Age will do that to you.

    LeBron... I wanted him to fail, and fail miserably. I hated how he wanted to skip his senior season of HIGH SCHOOL to enter the draft. I hated his huge sponsorships he signed before he ever set foot on a court. I hated a lot about him. But the guy's good. He has NOTHING around him, and he will still put in 40, and make it look easy. He's a great player.

    The best player right NOW, almost has to be LeBron or Kobe from a talent stand point. But my favorite player right now? I really like what Chauncy Billups does. I think he's a heck of a player, does all the small things, plays hard nose defense. I've always liked his game, despite the fact he played for detroit until recently.
    Not helping the situation since 1983.


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  8. #18
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    Jordan shut down by big men? What games were you watching? Well, whatever, dude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kev3inp View Post
    Jordan shut down by big men? What games were you watching? Well, whatever, dude.
    He was shut down many times in his career, you do not remember because of all the hype.He is top 5 of all time, but not the best. He was carried by his great team around him. Like I said look at the years before they surrounded him with all those great players. He did not win then. See always with the media hype. The media destroys everything. No one will ever convince me Jordan is ahead of Russell. I would take Duncan, Russell, and Horry over Jordan any day. Take away all those calls they always gave him, he is nothing. Just another Iverson, but more flashy.
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  10. #20
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    Horry has no place in this thread, man. Hate to say it... At his peak, he was a serviceable role player. He was a GREAT journeyman, who always seemed to land on the right team. Why? Veteran leadership, and nothing more. He was not dominant, he was not a force, and he does not belong in this thread. Who were the other players on his championship teams? He was a role player at best, the stars of those teams were the championship winners.

    BUT, I'll give you Horry on your team, I'll take Jordan on mine! hahahahaha.

    But you know what? I'm the same way you are about Peyton Manning. I think he's overrated as hell. I've gotten to the point where I can call his interceptions. He always looks the same way in the pocket when he's rattled. He gets happy feet, and immediately backs up as if to say, "Don't hurt me" after he throws. I can't stand the guy. He got lucky, and played well in ONE game. That was it. He tried his best to blow the Super Bowl he won, but Rex Grossman wouldn't have it. Grossman was determined to lose that game at all costs. Rhodes should have been Super Bowl MVP that year (look at the stats). Manning was average at best. The game he DID play well in was the game before when he kept New England off the field for the whole 2nd half.

    And his brother is overrated too. I'm a Patriots fan. I've watched that Super Bowl more times than I care to mention. He got lucky on his throws. He was throwing off his back foot for most of the game, just lobbing them up there and hoping for the best. Who should have been Super Bowl MVP? Tuck. But the qbs get all the credit.

    But in fairness, Brady only deserved the first Super Bowl MVP he got. Mike Vrabel deserved the 2nd, and Deion Branch got the 3rd (rightfully so). QBs get ALL the credit. But go through Peyton's career, even back to his days in Tennessee. He's a big game choker. Always has been, always will be. His only hope is if his teammates bail him out. But football is a team sport, and they have every right to do so.
    Not helping the situation since 1983.


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    Best Game: 267
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