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Thread: Who is the all time best sports player?

  1. #21
    Cranker ArtVandelay's Avatar
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    And I do have to say, you won't find anyone in professional basketball who DOESN'T get shut down every now and then. Jordan came through more often than not. Everyone gets shut down.
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtVandelay View Post
    And I do have to say, you won't find anyone in professional basketball who DOESN'T get shut down every now and then. Jordan came through more often than not. Everyone gets shut down.
    The true greats never really get shut down. They manage to make a difference elsewhere. Or they lead their team by doing something else. They are multidimensional. Jordan was really one dimensional. I will say he changed the way SOME people played the game, but not all. Defense still wins championships. And without his teammates he did not win.

    Lets look at Jordan before he was surrounded by talent.

    Rookie year
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_1985.html
    They finished with a record of 38 - 44

    Second year
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_1986.html
    They finished with a record of 30 - 52

    Third year
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_1987.html
    They finished with a record of 40-42

    Fourth year(The year they added Scottie Pippen)
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_1988.html
    They finished with record of 50 -32 (First time he made the playoffs.)
    Playoffs:
    Lost NBA Eastern Conference Semifinals (4-1) versus Detroit Pistons
    Won NBA Eastern Conference First Round (3-2) versus Cleveland Cavaliers

    Now as you can see until the got Pippen, Jordan was not winning much. And I can continue this showing the acquisition of more players and they get more wins. Russell won on every level. I will give you that Jordan was good, sometimes great(when not getting every call from the officials), but he was not even close to the best.
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  3. #23
    Cranker ArtVandelay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    The true greats never really get shut down. They manage to make a difference elsewhere. Or they lead their team by doing something else. They are multidimensional. Jordan was really one dimensional. I will say he changed the way SOME people played the game, but not all. Defense still wins championships. And without his teammates he did not win.

    Lets look at Jordan before he was surrounded by talent.

    Rookie year
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_1985.html
    They finished with a record of 38 - 44

    Second year
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_1986.html
    They finished with a record of 30 - 52

    Third year
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_1987.html
    They finished with a record of 40-42

    Fourth year(The year they added Scottie Pippen)
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_1988.html
    They finished with record of 50 -32 (First time he made the playoffs.)
    Playoffs:
    Lost NBA Eastern Conference Semifinals (4-1) versus Detroit Pistons
    Won NBA Eastern Conference First Round (3-2) versus Cleveland Cavaliers

    Now as you can see until the got Pippen, Jordan was not winning much. And I can continue this showing the acquisition of more players and they get more wins. Russell won on every level. I will give you that Jordan was good, sometimes great(when not getting every call from the officials), but he was not even close to the best.
    We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. hahahaha. Russell wasn't exactly surrounded by chumps. They had this coach, someone by the name of... eh, some color. hahahaha. He knew how to draft and build a team. Then there was some guy they ended up accidentally getting, I think Cousey was his name (I use it to put my beer in).... I think he was serviceable. hahahaha. I dunno, man. I'm as big a fan of Bill Russell as anyone, but Jordan was nothing to shake a stick at.

    I'll TELL you who's really overrated, though! Phil Jackson. Never been a fan, not at all.
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  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtVandelay View Post
    We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. hahahaha. Russell wasn't exactly surrounded by chumps. They had this coach, someone by the name of... eh, some color. hahahaha. He knew how to draft and build a team. Then there was some guy they ended up accidentally getting, I think Cousey was his name (I use it to put my beer in).... I think he was serviceable. hahahaha. I dunno, man. I'm as big a fan of Bill Russell as anyone, but Jordan was nothing to shake a stick at.

    I'll TELL you who's really overrated, though! Phil Jackson. Never been a fan, not at all.
    I would agree with you on Jackson. He only goes to teams that have talent. I have never seen him coach a bad or decent team. That is the mark of a true great coach. Someone who builds them from scratch. They go in with a not so good team and then they mold them into a good team. Everyone of Jackson's teams were hand picked talented teams. And he was not the one doing the picking. So yeah I would agree with you on Jackson being overrated. I never liked him myself.
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  5. #25
    Cranker ArtVandelay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    I would agree with you on Jackson. He only goes to teams that have talent. I have never seen him coach a bad or decent team. That is the mark of a true great coach. Someone who builds them from scratch. They go in with a not so good team and then they mold them into a good team. Everyone of Jackson's teams were hand picked talented teams. And he was not the one doing the picking. So yeah I would agree with you on Jackson being overrated. I never liked him myself.
    You mean like THIS guy?

    What a great history...
    Not helping the situation since 1983.


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  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtVandelay View Post
    You mean like THIS guy?

    What a great history...
    Yeah, now that is a great coach. He had an amazing eye for talent. Though, he had a lot of help from a couple of his players. But, he always put a great team on the floor. You can not beat someone who has so much success and always did it his way. I would have to say he is the greatest coach without a doubt. At least the greatest professional basketball coach.
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  7. #27
    Cranker ArtVandelay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    Yeah, now that is a great coach. He had an amazing eye for talent. Though, he had a lot of help from a couple of his players. But, he always put a great team on the floor. You can not beat someone who has so much success and always did it his way. I would have to say he is the greatest coach without a doubt. At least the greatest professional basketball coach.
    I wouldn't back away from arguing greatest coach. I think that'd be fair to say! hahahaha. Of course....

    There's always Coach Ditka. He might have something to say about that.....

    Da Bears.....
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    Anthony Joseph Foyt Jr.

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    Jordan and Tiger

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    No mention of Bobby Orr???? He would get my vote, with a very close second of Gretzky.

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