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Thread: Pocket 7 pin - more frequent cause?

  1. #1

    Default Pocket 7 pin - more frequent cause?

    Since I have enhanced my approach - found the issue causing me to chicken wing my arm during my release - I have been keeping my left leg bent more and clearing my right leg without using my hips to help clear. My arm is much more straighter giving me more accuracy to hit my mark with play.

    The issue I have noticed is that I leave many more pocket 7's, not the light and fight type, but clearly a pocket flush. Don't notice what the ball does accurately through the pocket - don't see if it dies out and takes out the 9 and not the 8 or just drives through too hard. I know I need to watch that more, but it just makes me wonder - what could the cause be here, too much finishing? My gamebreaker does go long and flip hard, but not over reactive - more of a controlled flip.

    I do roll 14lb, and I'm considering going back to 15 if I think it will help the carry without sacrificing my game as I'm speed dominant.

  2. #2

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    i am assuming that you are a lefty, if not, the information will still apply. sometimes, even when we think we throw our best shots and hit high flush in the pocket, we are often disappointed with corner pin leaves. the culprit, in most cases, is that the ball that we are using, "stores" too much energy, thus, causing the pins to "overreact" violently sending the 4 around the 7, or the 6 around the 10. the cause comes in one of three forms and sometimes in combination of two: too much speed combined with spin . 2) using a ball that is too shiny, 3) too much loft.

    solutions: 1) make a hand position change to get more under the ball to increase forward roll, this allows the pins to mix and stay lower, rather than exploding upward and outward. 2) put some surface on your ball, knock a little of that shine off of the ball. this bleeds off some of that stored energy picked up from the heads and gives the ball more continuation through the pins, effectively mixing them together. 3) simply stated, don't loft the ball so far down the lane. put the ball down earlier to use up some of that stored energy so, when the ball enters the last 10 feet of friction, at the back of the lane, it does not overreact and helps to carry the corners. good bowling.
    bowls: right handed, average: 208 and rising, style: tweener
    ball company: Lane #1
    rev rate: 385 rpm

    breakin' sucka's jaws with my saws

    Lane #1 baby.......on the grind

    U.S.B.C. CERTIFIED COACH


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  3. #3

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    I'm a righty - don't have too much concern with 10 pin leaves, I understand the angle on those leaves as I can tell pretty much when they are left after I roll the ball.

    I don't loft the ball - prolly one other thing I have issues with - I lay it down early and come out early - I have a spot on the bottom of my balls that show this.

    I roll a gamebreaker - it's dulled up a little from factory - just a green pad, did try grey and red, but they were too much for my game.

    I was only asking about the 7 pin leave - (Clarifying i'm right handed) and this just started surfacing since I am now staying low and staying behind the ball much better. I do go to a silver USBC coach every 2 weeks and it's helping greatly to improve my game and confidence.

    I have shot 1 800 and 2 300's, but too much time inbetween them - I'm going to the coach now for average not high scores. My goal is 230 on a house shot, so I can still have a shot at 200 on PBA patterns.

  4. #4

    Default enlightening

    thanks for the additional information about your game. it now sheds more light on what could be the cause of your high flush 7 pin leaves. you mentioned that you are speed dominant, perhaps, you have too much speed "FOR THE CONDITION". your high speed and the angle of entry into the pocket could very well be the "bug that is bitting you". it is wonderful that you are working with a capable coach as his assistance will benefit you immensely. let me ask, do you have a big backswing, or , are you very quick with your feet to generate your high speed? now, i DO NOT want to step on your coach' s toes, just to support his instruction, give this tip some thought; allow the weight of the ball to swing your arm not the other way around. this probably goes against everything that we were told or learned. no matter what height our backswing reaches, just "give" the ball to gravity, and gravity will give the ball' s momentum back to us, provided 2 things are NOT TAKING PLACE: 1) we are not squeezing the ball and 2) we don' t pull the ball through the bottom of the swing. the added benefit to this tip is , by not squeezing the ball you allow your swing to be fluid and smooth, secondly, with a free armswing, you will keep your swing under your shoulder and you can use your hand positions to great effect. discuss this with your coach, if you like.


    THIS IS NOT FAULT FINDING, JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT.
    good bowling bro,
    Last edited by djbigsmooth; 10-27-2008 at 08:03 PM. Reason: additional info
    bowls: right handed, average: 208 and rising, style: tweener
    ball company: Lane #1
    rev rate: 385 rpm

    breakin' sucka's jaws with my saws

    Lane #1 baby.......on the grind

    U.S.B.C. CERTIFIED COACH


    I am a proud member of BowlingBoards.com Bowling Forums

  5. #5

    Default

    My backswing is low (use to be higher) - and my feet is slow - the only thing my coach is stating he has no issues with is my feet work. I am clearing my right leg more without moving my hips out of the way - which caused me to chicken wing or swing my arm out right instead of striaght ahead. This has got better, but I still have shots I see the arm going right. My speed is rough. I have the creep on the lane approach, but some nights I am fluent. The slower I am on the approach, the more accurate I am. I move my mark down by the 1st set of synthetic lane markings (Long brown lines) to help my follow through. This has helped greatly and I tend to me accurate within 3 boards - but this is my speed area issue. The longer I look down the lane, the more the gravity does not apply to me, it's just hard to overcome something I've got into the habit with. I do work on it a lot and even during my league games, some nights it's works and the other I can't kick corners. I did leave 15 10's last night, but covered them all. And I know my speed was the issue last night, I even tried shortening my steps and lowering my starting arm position.

    I assume my speed comes from my arm swing (upper body) but I do know I don't let the gravity do it. I learned this on my 10 pins, I push my shots towards the 10 pin which has got my 10 pin pickups almost perfect.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    My backswing is low (use to be higher) - and my feet is slow - the only thing my coach is stating he has no issues with is my feet work. I am clearing my right leg more without moving my hips out of the way - which caused me to chicken wing or swing my arm out right instead of striaght ahead. This has got better, but I still have shots I see the arm going right. My speed is rough. I have the creep on the lane approach, but some nights I am fluent. The slower I am on the approach, the more accurate I am. I move my mark down by the 1st set of synthetic lane markings (Long brown lines) to help my follow through. This has helped greatly and I tend to me accurate within 3 boards - but this is my speed area issue. The longer I look down the lane, the more the gravity does not apply to me, it's just hard to overcome something I've got into the habit with. I do work on it a lot and even during my league games, some nights it's works and the other I can't kick corners. I did leave 15 10's last night, but covered them all. And I know my speed was the issue last night, I even tried shortening my steps and lowering my starting arm position.

    I assume my speed comes from my arm swing (upper body) but I do know I don't let the gravity do it. I learned this on my 10 pins, I push my shots towards the 10 pin which has got my 10 pin pickups almost perfect.


    the use of high speed has a useful purpose and it should be used wisely. being speed dominant can be a blessing on some conditions and a curse on others, it is a matter of being aware of what your ball is doing. for example, if you notice my style, i tend to have a bit of loft. while lofting serves a useful purpose, it should not be done by default or force of habit. i recently learned to significantly reduce my use of loft on longer patterns to give the ball more time to react and bleed off some of the stored energy that the ball picks up in the heads. the same principle applies to speed, have your coach video analyze your delivery and try to detect where your speed comes from, be it strong leg drive, an accelerated whip swing, or fast feet. just fine tuning any one or a combination of a couple could mean greater consistancy, higher averages, and more championships.

    good bowling bro'.
    bowls: right handed, average: 208 and rising, style: tweener
    ball company: Lane #1
    rev rate: 385 rpm

    breakin' sucka's jaws with my saws

    Lane #1 baby.......on the grind

    U.S.B.C. CERTIFIED COACH


    I am a proud member of BowlingBoards.com Bowling Forums

  7. #7

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    I have seen a rash of strange leaves in recent years . I see, pocket 7's , alot more soild 9's / 8's / 7-10's and so on. I feel this is attributed to the high performance coverstocks and cores. Todays equipment hits so much harder and the motion is so much more continuous that these leaves make us frustrated alittle. It's all about entry angle of the ball. Too steep of an entry angle and we could see some leaves we haven't seen in the past. Too light and it's flat 10's and 2-8-10's. When this happens to me , I try and adjust the cover to say 2000 abralon and make the ball smoother.
    Last edited by BubbaRay; 11-18-2008 at 10:57 PM.
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