Are all spare balls equal???

[MICHAEL]

That ball is only two months old??!!??!! Please Mike, say you're exaggerating. That ball looks years older.

LIKE that TV series, "Believe It or NOT", thats what that ball is! I am very upset with what Bruce said, Storms rep said! In a nut shell, it the nature of the beast! Wow!! That brand will never be on my list again, I could care less what ball they come out with, nor will I recommend it to any of my bowling friends! Too many other companies out there that stand behind their porducts!!

[MICHAEL]

For the most part the are basically the same. Some balls like the Columbia Blue Dot and the Pld Storm Spare Storm had a harger surface (durometer reading) and therefore went straighter than a standard plastic ball on friction. My Mptiv Sniper has a verymilar reaction to the old Spare Storm

Stormed1 have you ever seen a Storm1 ball look like this after just a couple months??? GEEE... I only use it once in a while on 10 pin leaves??
Should all the holes be beveled when using the Vise system? Makes sense to me, and I have drilled millions of holes as a Iron worker, even used huge mag-drills! I know a thing or two about drilling holes! It seems to me with plastic being brittle, sanding the hole drilled would not only

Eliminate the rough edges (where a crack can start), but the heat would melt and fuse the top of the hole into a stronger surface, less adpt to start a crack or flake and shatter as mine seems to have done! James said that Bruce is his teacher, and he knows his stuff better than any other pro out there.
I agree Bruce is a top notch Driller, who, I am told was a PBA bowler, and drilled for many Pro’s, like Norman Duke ect. I am not questioning his outstanding knowledge in regards to knowing his TRADE!
I just think that with the Vise System two things seem logical to me.
1. After hole is drilled it should be beveled, to lessen the chance of cracking , OR flaking around the sleeve of the system
2. The hole should be deep enough to where none of the sleeve, or thumb insert is above the surface of the ball, but in fact should be concave! I could hear my ball thumping as it rolled over the thumb hole, do to it sticking up above the surface of the ball just maybe 1/64 of an inch!

But then what do I know, I worked with Iron/Steel!!

[JaMau24]

Stormed1 have you ever seen a Storm1 ball look like this after just a couple months??? GEEE... I only use it once in a while on 10 pin leaves??
Should all the holes be beveled when using the Vise system? Makes sense to me, and I have drilled millions of holes as a Iron worker, even used huge mag-drills! I know a thing or two about drilling holes! It seems to me with plastic being brittle, sanding the hole drilled would not only

Eliminate the rough edges (where a crack can start), but the heat would melt and fuse the top of the hole into a stronger surface, less adpt to start a crack or flake and shatter as mine seems to have done! James said that Bruce is his teacher, and he knows his stuff better than any other pro out there.
I agree Bruce is a top notch Driller, who, I am told was a PBA bowler, and drilled for many Pro’s, like Norman Duke ect. I am not questioning his outstanding knowledge in regards to knowing his TRADE!
I just think that with the Vise System two things seem logical to me.
1. After hole is drilled it should be beveled, to lessen the chance of cracking , OR flaking around the sleeve of the system
2. The hole should be deep enough to where none of the sleeve, or thumb insert is above the surface of the ball, but in fact should be concave! I could hear my ball thumping as it rolled over the thumb hole, do to it sticking up above the surface of the ball just maybe 1/64 of an inch!

But then what do I know, I worked with Iron/Steel!!

I'm just going to say this. I understand you've drilled things before, but during my search to educate myself about drilling bowling balls, I have found that they are an extremely difficult thing to drill and are very elaborate. To suggest you know anything about drilling a bowling ball, wouldn't be wise for me, you, or anyone else that doesn't have the proper training to go along with drilling a ball. I'm going to back up James because I feel as though he's being unfairly criticized. He's taken all of the necessary training classes, earned his pro shop training certificate, and if I'm not mistaken, had to pay $1,500 to achieve all of that. He's qualified, and learning from the best. If he's never been told in his training, or by his more-than-qualified boss, that you have to, or need to bevel out finger holes, then I wouldn't think it would be necessary.

Secondly, if a pro shop operator has 30+ years of experience and has drilled balls for some of the best bowlers, I'm probably going to side with what he thinks is best (Bruce). I have several balls through them, none of which have ever cracked. You have several balls through them, none of which have ever cracked, EXCEPT for an unfortunately brittle, yet inexpensive, plastic ball, of which they couldn't have predicted would have cracked. Yes, those clear balls are more susceptible to crack like that, but that doesn't mean it will happen to all of those balls.

Also, the cracking that took place on your ball, while it LOOKED bad, it really isn't and wasn't a big deal. It wasn't going to affect the way you threw the ball, and it wasn't going to affect the way the ball rolled. You should see Pat's Storm Crossroad! Holy hell, the cracking he has around his finger holes looks 100 times worse than yours did, and that's his STRIKE ball! Bottom of the line, if it's not cracking outwards, then it's not a big deal. I thought it was nice of them to repair your ball for free, considering it wasn't affecting the way the ball was rolling, or affecting how you threw it.

Lastly, the "thumping" you were hearing was 100% because of you tracking over your thumb. Sometimes when I throw someones ball that isn't mine, I track over the thumb and I can hear that loud thump. If you're 100% sure that it wasn't just the thumping of it going over the thumb hole, and you think it was the VISE system (which I've seen on that ball, and I didn't think it extended past your thumb hole), then, again, it really wouldn't be that big of a deal because it's plastic. The real problem would be you tracking over your thumb hole still. It wouldn't thump if you were tracking away from the thumb.

Anyway, those are my thoughts! By the way, to everyone wondering, James did an excellent job plugging up his cracks and re-drilling. You could hardly even tell any damage had ever taken place on that ball. Mike picked it up today, so hopefully he will love it!

[Stormed1]

You don't have to have a huge bevel, Just enough to take the sharp edge off, Plastic balls seem to be more sensative to what glue is used to glue the inserts in which is why I use the Vise purple gel glue vs super/crazy glue, Being a gel formulated to work with bowling ball coverstocks it's easy to just use 4 small drops vd the way crazy/super glue spreads

[JaMau24]

You don't have to have a huge bevel, Just enough to take the sharp edge off, Plastic balls seem to be more sensative to what glue is used to glue the inserts in which is why I use the Vise purple gel glue vs super/crazy glue, Being a gel formulated to work with bowling ball coverstocks it's easy to just use 4 small drops vd the way crazy/super glue spreads

Look, I'm not going to suggest that there isn't more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak. Some people will do things differently than others, but to suggest doing it "this way" vs "that way" (as long as your still getting the same result at the end) is extremely detrimental to the ball, is hogwash. Everyone will have their own way of doing things, but as long as your getting positive results, then everything is fine. I'm sure whether the hole is beveled or not, someone is still going to have cracking at some point or another.

All glue bases are the same. That's an awfully good selling ploy by the purple vise stuff.

[MICHAEL]

I have drilled pluged, and repairedCracks for 30 years as an Ironworker. It just makes sense what many have said about the slight bevel will finish off the rough edge that is left from drilling! It’s that rough edge that with vibrations from bowling, makes a crack more likely, just makes sense to me, and I know a little about things like that! Sure I am not a certified bowling ball driller, but many other drillers, that have gone to school, seem to agree! A slight bevel with the hole for the fingers, and Vise system seem to me to be a good idea!
Storm1 you have a pro shop, does what I am saying make sense to you, or am I out there in left field!
Jason the holes around the fingers and thumb were crumbling and getting worse, it felt like slivers of glass, that’s why I tried to smooth it out with sand paper! I would also think the reason a ball will thump while going down the lane in my case was that the sleeve was so close to the surface that I believe it stuck out a small amount esp with when the screw in Vise insert was put in. James had to cut one down form me, it doesn’t take much for it to make that noise!
It looks much better than what it did, and I appreciate Bruce/James fixing it! It had very little use on it! The question now is will it hold up under use! I hope so! Storm is who I have the problem with! Why would you not stand behind a new ball that starts crumbling out around the 3 holes!?

I am not saying anyone FOR SURE is at fault here, I just know what the ball did in a short period of time, with very little use!! It would be nice to know what caused the problem! That's all I would like to know!

[MICHAEL]

Jason for your information, I did Drill bowling balls and fit people for them on the frist job out of College! Kmart! We would have sales, and I bet I drilled a few hundred balls! I never had a plastic ball do that ever!! I always beveled the the holes, but never , did I have one do that! True I did not install Vise systems, and if thats the problem then I think that should be addressed!! We did not have the Clear see through balls back then, and maybe thats the nature of the beast!!

Thanks Bruce/James, for fixing the ball! You did a good job, will post a picture later! I just hope it holds up. I am a nuts and bolts kind of guy! Would like to know WHAT caused the problem! Was it Storm/ vise system/ ??? O well they Stood behind their sale, and made it right, that means a lot to me!

[billf]

Jason, calm down. Bruce knows all ball manufacturers state in their warranty that all holes must be beveled and super glue voids the warranty. Is the base the same? Yes. Then again the base is the same on a Ford Focus and a Rolls Royce too but they sure are different. Did they use super glue? Who knows. I know I do use super glue on mine. I also only use two drops per grip. I've never had an issue.
Do I think this is the shops fault, after getting more than the original facts? No. Is this the first time I've heard of Storm NOT standing behind the product? NO!!! As my driller said, the rep told him he will sell their stuff because that's what people come in looking to buy. Not that it's better. Not the quality. Just that they pay better pros and more of them than any other company.
Mike says maybe the Vise system. My first thought was the crazy, old man is at it again. But then I recalled how my driller won't put them in plastic balls. He didn't say why. Maybe I will ask next visit. Of course now I only go to talk as my work gets done through www.bowlerX.com now.

[JaMau24]

Jason, calm down. Bruce knows all ball manufacturers state in their warranty that all holes must be beveled and super glue voids the warranty. Is the base the same? Yes. Then again the base is the same on a Ford Focus and a Rolls Royce too but they sure are different. Did they use super glue? Who knows. I know I do use super glue on mine. I also only use two drops per grip. I've never had an issue.
Do I think this is the shops fault, after getting more than the original facts? No. Is this the first time I've heard of Storm NOT standing behind the product? NO!!! As my driller said, the rep told him he will sell their stuff because that's what people come in looking to buy. Not that it's better. Not the quality. Just that they pay better pros and more of them than any other company.
Mike says maybe the Vise system. My first thought was the crazy, old man is at it again. But then I recalled how my driller won't put them in plastic balls. He didn't say why. Maybe I will ask next visit. Of course now I only go to talk as my work gets done through www.bowlerX.com now.

I'm not upset or disgruntled at all. No need to tell me to calm down, because I'm calm. FYI it was "Gorilla Glue". (Also, nice plug , and I'm not referring to a bowling ball plug)

[MICHAEL]

Where is was crumbling and falling out around the sleeve of the Vise system, now it is solid again! Remember, it was not just that it was flaking, and falling out, a good size chunk came out and was repaired that I think had to do with the ball composition, not the alley! That was the first repair! Almost like the cover stock is to brittle, and prone to fractures, and crumbling around the finger/thumb hole! Anyway, again thanks Bruce/James, I will let you know how well it holds up! As I have said, it’s only a few months old, and only,,ONLY used when a ten pin comes up.