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Thread: Sad Night for Boxing

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    Cranker ArtVandelay's Avatar
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    Default Sad Night for Boxing

    Any boxing fans? Full disclosure: Boxing runs in my family. My 2nd Uncle was on the NYPD and his main hobbies were Boxing and Judo. He was a Golden Gloves Boxer and his best fight came in the Golden Gloves Finals at MSG against a guy named Chuck Wepner. He lost, but Wepner later went on to kind of turn into somebody who morphed into somebody else you may have heard of named Rocky Balboa.

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    So, boxing matters to me. The heavyweight bracket is a joke. The only two boxers that matter refuse to fight because they're brothers. Boxing is a classic sport, and it's getting clobbered by the new MMA crap-o-la that spray tanners with spiked frost tipped hair and barbed wire arm band tattoo's love. This really bothers me.

    And then there's Mayweather Jr. Talk about someone who bothers me! That guy is one of the most talented boxers we will ever see. He is perfectly sound fundamentally, one of the prettiest counter punchers ever, and he has to go and ruin it by being just as big of a jerk as his pops. There's nothing I'd like to see more than that guy losing. And it will NEVER HAPPEN.

    Let's not pretend Pacquiao was ever going to beat him. Pacquiao has always been wheels off and aggressive. I don't think Pacquiao would have ever landed enough clean shots to hurt Mayweather. His best chance was he's probably the only fighter who could have lasted the distance against Mayweather and kept punching without wearing down. Maybe he wins by volume? But even then, I figured Mayweather in under 8 rounds, because eventually Pacquiao would get tagged. He takes too many chances and Mayweather is too good. He doesn't miss the opportunities when they present themselves.

    But Pacquiao is the good guy. He's always been a Man of God, although never more than in the last year. He's humble. He's easy to like, he's easy to root for. He is everything Mayweather isn't. He is so loved by the Phillipines that they elected him into the House of Representatives. And he still finds time to fight. But he lost his edge. He is no longer focused.

    Now, I still think he won the Bradley fight. I really do. I think his only fault is that he wasn't aggressive towards the end (but I still feel he won by a landslide...), and he didn't try to knock Bradley out. Pacquiao felt he had the fight won (and he DID, but obviously he didn't...). He is a man of God. He didn't feel the need to hurt Bradley, he didn't want to put him down. That's not a good thing when you're a boxer. He lost the decision. I couldn't believe it, and I thought that was a horrible night for boxing. How can anyone think it's not fixed after that???

    But Marquez always fought him tough. Last night was supposed to be a good fight. Last night was when Pacquiao was going to come out and dominate, and show everyone the Bradley fight was a fluke, and it should have never happened, and he was robbed of his victory and then in the 3rd round... Uh-oh. He got caught. Really? No one catches the old Pacquiao... This isn't good. He came back strong. He was WINNING the rounds. He looked like he wanted it, he looked like he was going to be the aggressor, BUT... Something seemed wrong. Even when he knocked down JMM, it was more of a surprising hit. Yeah, it was a knock down, and yeah he needed it, but was he hurting JMM? He was cutting him, JMM was bleeding, but... Who was the power puncher?

    In the final second of the 6th round, we found out. Pacquiao no longer has it. He proved himself not as fundamentally sound as JMM, he left himself open, and JMM put him down with a beautiful right hand after Pacquiao's missed. JMM deserves all the credit in the world, it was a beautiful fight. But my hero was on the ground face down. The guy who was a symbol of hope that someone would right the boxing world and give Mayweather Jr a fight. It would have been the greatest fight in modern day boxing, it could have saved boxing and made it relevant again. But now the chances of it happening are GREATER than ever, but it won't matter.

    Mayweather is a genius. He really is a smart man. Why do you think he avoided Mosley for all those years and only fought him when Mosley was WELL past his prime of being a threat? Because to Mayweather, finishing undefeated is all that matters. He is a master of the head games. Just when everything seemed poised for a fight between Mayweather and Pacquiao, he called for blood testing. Pacquiao is horrified of needles, BUT agreed to it, until Mayweather insisted blood be allowed to be drawn multiple times during training as well as pre and post fight. Whenever something was agreed to by Pacquiao, Mayweather raised it a notch until it was no longer agreed to. And when THAT was settled it finally became about the money.

    Now that Mayweather knows Pacquiao can't beat him, we will get our fight, and I will watch it....




    But I don't want to anymore.
    Not helping the situation since 1983.


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    Pin Crusher noeymc's Avatar
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    mma is where it's at yo any one can fight one way try fighting 3-4 different ways
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    Bowler Cochese's Avatar
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    I share your dislike for Mayweather and would love to see him loose too. I watches his cheap shot against Ortiz and it just sums up everything that he is. But you are right about him being smart. And wether its him pulling the string behind the scenes or his promoter or whatever, he seems to pick just the right times to fight so he has the advantage.

    And as for MMA, I agree it is pretty hypedup, but there is a lot to be said for the sport. Not to take anything away from boxing because I am a traditionalist, but it is fun to watch some of the MMA guys too. I think there is room for both sports, but heavyweight boxing needs another Mike Tyson to bring it back into the lime light.
    Cheers - Ryan

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    Cranker ArtVandelay's Avatar
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    I just can't do MMA. I can't. Boxing is a beautiful sport. It's very technical. It's complicated in its own way. MMA is a brawl. It's just not the same... Boxing is a classic sport, with very deep history. I hope it can survive, but it needs some help and fast (it NEEDED Pacquiao/Mayweather.... Now it's in HUGE trouble, IMHO). I don't think MMA has that kind of staying power.
    Not helping the situation since 1983.


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    Bowler Cochese's Avatar
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    I agree that boxing is much classier and I like the more technical aspect of it. MMA has technical aspects in the ground game, but it usually ends up in a brawl like you said. I like both, but would pick a good boxing match over MMA any day. I hope boxing can make a comeback because it is great.

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    Cranker JaMau24's Avatar
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    Ok ok ok ok ok... Lemme start by saying, I do really like Mayweather. He's a fantastic boxer. Do I 100% agree with his mouth? No. But hey, he talks the talk, and he walks the walk.

    A couple things you said bothered me. Firstly, is Pacquiao really that great!? Sure, he's done a whole lot of great things, but lets not forget, he also used to be a drunk, a gambler, and he cheated on his wife. Still though, I know people can change, and I know he's done a lot of great things, but lets not put him too high on that pedestal.

    Secondly, the Bradley fight. Man, I was one of the very FEW people that thought Bradley won that fight. I think people were so caught up in thinking Pacquiao was going to destroy him that they saw things that didn't happen! He didn't land a lot of clean shots on Bradley! Bradley was constantly moving and dodging his shots, and had great counter punches. He ended rounds greatly too (Bradley). HBO was so biased towards Pacquiao during that fight, it was disgusting! Watch the fight on mute, and really pay attention. Perhaps your opinion might change.

    Thirdly, that whole "Pacquiao is a man of god and didn't want to hurt Bradley" is absolute HOGWASH! Since when has any boxer decided not to end a fight when they have the chance!? He didn't end it, because he COULDN'T! Bradley has one hell of a chin, and despite being wobbled a couple times, he never got KO'd.

    Fourthly, Pacquiao benefited from the judging in AT LEAST 2 of the prior Marquez fights. He lost, and the judging decided he didn't. Live by the sword, and die by it too.

    Fifthly, he's always had trouble with Marquez. Like I just said, he should have lost at least 2 times to him (prior to last night), possible even lost all the fights. Now what is Marquez's strengths? He's a fantastic defensive fighter, with an amazing counter punching ability. Want to know who the best defensive fighter and the best counter puncher is? Floyd Mayweather. So it always drives me up a wall when someone says that he'd destroy Floyd. It's even MORE annoying now that some people are STILL saying he'd knock out Floyd.

    Sixthly, even though he would have lost to Floyd (decisively), it will always be a real shame that the fight between Pacquiao and Floyd did never happen. The hype would have been so awesome and the money it generated would have been record breaking.

    Anyway, here's to hoping the heavyweight division somehow revives itself in the years to come. I just don't see how it can though. I don't know how it ever took such a drop.

    Also, in response to "Floyd cheap-shotting Ortiz"... C'mon man, that's silly. You're in a BOXING match Ortiz. Not a kiss and hug fest like you tried to make it. I love how people try to act like Floyd was in the wrong during that fight when it was Ortiz who caused all of that mess with a blatantly illegal headbutt. Oritz headbutted him, kissed and hugged him, hugged him again, ref said FIGHT, Ortiz tried to hug AGAIN, and Floyd did what he was supposed to do... Box when the ref said box. Protect yourself at all times, especially when the ref says fight.
    Last edited by JaMau24; 12-09-2012 at 10:53 PM.

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    Bowler Cochese's Avatar
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    I agree that Ortiz was an idiot for not having his hands up, but I don't think many other boxers would have taken the shot Mayweather did, but that is another debate.

    I just don't like the guy. The way he handles himself outside the ring and runs his mouth. But that can be said about a lot of professional athletes in any sport and he does back it up in the ring. At least he is someone worth talking about and keeps people's interest in the sport going. It's thread is proof of that.
    Last edited by Cochese; 12-09-2012 at 11:22 PM.
    Cheers - Ryan

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    Cranker JaMau24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
    I agree that Ortiz was an idiot for not having his hands up, but I don't think many other boxers would have taken the shot Mayweather did, but that is another debate.

    I just don't like the guy. The way he handles himself outside the ring and runs his mouth. But that can be said about a lot of professional athletes in any sport and he does back it up in the ring. At least he is someone worth talking about and keeps people's interest in the sport going. It's thread is proof of that.
    True. Ya know, like you say, you need someone like that. It makes it all more interesting. Just think if bowling had a guy like that. A real asshole that constantly runs his mouth. If you heard he was bowling the upcoming TV show, wouldn't you be more inclined to watch? I would! Perhaps they could get better ratings too, thus bringing more prize money.

    Keep in mind, a lot of how these professional athletes act are the way the were brought up. Add in the fact that they have always been better than everyone, and always been told and treated as if they were better than everyone, it sometimes creates immature athletes that never knew any better.

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    Cranker ArtVandelay's Avatar
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    Was Pacquiao ever that great? Yeah, I believe so. He had an incredible run. If nothing else, he was the perfect anti-Mayweather. He is aggressive, punches from angles most fighters couldn't dream of, and even though de la Hoya was too old when they fought, he went through some VERY impressive fighters like they were nothing. True, he didn't knock anyone out (except Hatton, and wow... The Get Hit Man was born), but he dominated. No one is perfect, but Pacquiao does come across sincere. I do believe he is religious, and I do believe that any problems he had in the past are things he's worked through. Mayweather can't keep himself out of jail, and Pacquiao parades himself as a Man of God, and seems sincere in it.

    I know the video you're talking about. I have a buddy I call my Good Boxing Buddy, and he always buys the fights. We watched it about 4 or 5 times, and at least 3 times with the audio off. Even going conservative, Pacquiao out punched Bradley. He never really hurt him is the problem. My buddy said it reminded him of Olympic Boxing where you just go for the points since a knockout is out of the question. Okay... But why? I wonder if he got tired. He just seemed to coast through those last few rounds, but I'll stick by my guns.

    But does Pacquiao ever beat Mayweather? Like I said in that first post: I don't think he would have. I think his chance was to simply go the distance and throw far more punches than Mayweather and win on the scorecards. But I don't think Mayweather would have ever left himself exposed to get hurt, but he's far too great a counter puncher to not get Manny a few times, especially with how Manny would be after him. Doesn't seem to matter now... Roach was talking about how he needs to get Manny back in the training ring and assess if he still can fight or not. It didn't strike me as a vote of confidence. I wonder if Roach saw something out there.

    The Ortiz/Mayweather fight? You nailed it at the end. It's crazy, because my good boxing buddy is American born, but of Mexican heritage, and I was one of three white people in that house full of around 15-20 people. Those Mexicans love their boxing and they really wanted Ortiz in that one. The emotions after that one were unspeakable. I'm shocked only one person went outside to shatter their beer bottle (everyone there is awesome, but that was the first I ever felt someone might actually get hurt... It was kinda scary for a moment). My Good Baseball Buddy (I have all kinds of good buddies) just kind of shook his head in disbelief and said, "It's a boxing ring. Protect yourselves at all times. Always." I think that was a fair commentary. Was it cheap? I don't know... I think it was classless. Ortiz started it, Ortiz set the precedent that class was going out the window with the headbutt and the kiss, and whatnot. He stuck out his gloves and instead of a bump, he got one in the jaw. He probably deserved it, but... I dunno. I just felt like that fight was going to be amazing and for it to end that way.... Especially how he was just down and stumbling around as the count was going and I just kept thinking, "He'll get to his feet, right? Surely he will get to his feet. It can't end like this, right?" It was surreal. It seemed fixed. It seemed fake. Cortez (the ref that night, if memory serves) didn't even seem to be WATCHING when that hit landed. It looked like he was turned to the scorers table. It seemed WWF-ish to me. I didn't understand why Ortiz headbutted him when he was clearly winning that round. He was down the whole night, and he was starting to put something together, and that round he wasn't just winning it, he looked DOMINANT, and to then do something to intentionally dock yourself a point... Seemed fixed, and I don't want to believe that for a second.
    Last edited by ArtVandelay; 12-10-2012 at 08:49 PM.
    Not helping the situation since 1983.


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  10. #10
    Cranker JaMau24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtVandelay View Post
    Was Pacquiao ever that great? Yeah, I believe so. He had an incredible run. If nothing else, he was the perfect anti-Mayweather. He is aggressive, punches from angles most fighters couldn't dream of, and even though de la Hoya was too old when they fought, he went through some VERY impressive fighters like they were nothing. True, he didn't knock anyone out (except Hatton, and wow... The Get Hit Man was born), but he dominated. No one is perfect, but Pacquiao does come across sincere. I do believe he is religious, and I do believe that any problems he had in the past are things he's worked through. Mayweather can't keep himself out of jail, and Pacquiao parades himself as a Man of God, and seems sincere in it.
    Before I read the rest of your post, I want to start by saying, I meant "was he ever that great of a 'person' (like you built him up to be)"? Yes, I know he was a great fighter. I wasn't saying he never was a great fighter. Anyway, going to continue reading.

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