Constructive Criticism (on treating others)

[ArtVandelay]

This may not be well received, but I have been going through a lot of threads over the past month and I've had this thought enough to warrant this thread.

There's no way to even consider a post like this without first complimenting this forum for its membership, and the way we conduct ourselves. I've left other forums over disappointment in the way they treat new members, or other members in general (especially when opinions differ from their own). Other forums also seem more easily susceptible to having cliques form. As ridiculous as it sounds, it can almost turn into a form of bullying. In those forums, it's clockwork watching someone post a thought/idea/comment, and someone else post a thought that differs, before a full on argument breaks out. When an educated debate turns into a bitter argument, it's a sad thing to witness. In those situations, those cliques often show their ugly heads. I don't have to guess, on those forums, what people will become involved and many threads turn into those cliques and their ideals against the ideas/ideals of one or two people. It's sad.

So let's take pride in the fact we don't have any of that here! If we DO have that here, it's much less evident. The large majority of what this community promotes is very positive. Even in instances when it appears some malice might be in a comment, when I remember diction and connotation is often hard to determine on the internet and re-read the post in a neutral tone, it's really not bad at all!

But we are not perfect. As I write this, I realize it's already become long and I have yet to address the point. That's one of my traits. English was always my strongest subject, and I have a tendency to be verbose when I write. There are many people who don't want to read everything I have to write, and the mere thought of spending 5+ minutes to read a post gives them, "tired head," (a term from a radio station down here that I like! hahaha). My own, personal, faults are great and I accept that. I only hope everyone in this forum believes I treat them with decency and respect at all times (while remembering that I am a bit of a smart ***, and sometimes can't help myself from a good natured ribbing. hahahaha. Please understand, I love comedy, and any comment that might seem off color is done so for comedic effect 99% of the time).

My bowling game is also far from perfect. I am, very much, a recreational bowler. At times I wonder why I am a part of this forum, because I think I take bowling MUCH, MUCH less seriously than 95% of the members here. I don't know what I contribute, at times. I find myself trying to offer advice, but realizing I'm not qualified to do so. But the reason I keep coming back is because I like the community, and I'm interested in the posts. Bowling interests me.

Improving our bowling is why most of us are here. Talking about bowling, offering advice about bowling, and thinking about bowling, is what we enjoy. But as much as we try to improve our bowling game, do we spend as much time thinking about improvement on a more personal level? None of us are perfect, but we are all here for the same reason.

From time to time, especially in some of the older posts, I come across statements that make me feel badly for some of our members. I don't want to single anyone out, because that's not the point, but I DO want to recognize one of our members for what they do and bring to the table. Striker12 is a very active member. His posts are often short, and lack proper punctuation. But his posts are also exactly what this community needs. If he has ever posted anything negative, I can't think of it. However, in older posts, I saw comments that concentrated more on his typing and punctuation than his intentions and content. Those types of comments can be what drives people away. There are other comments towards other members along similar lines. Perhaps a PM would be more appropriate? Perhaps a little more compassion?

Now, it's easy to look at this post and realize I can come off as, "attacking," the very people I feel are, "attacking," others. That's not the case at all. I just think we sometimes forget words can be interpreted in many ways and come across as hurtful. I think we are better than that. I think if we lost a member like striker12, it would be a shame.

There will be times when a member is out of line, or a new member, "trolls," the boards for reactions. Our forum is still new, and our forum is better than the others. We can handle things like that in a mature and reasonable way. Especially the, "trolls." We don't get many of those. Actually, I can't think of a single one, right now. But remember that they are just looking for a reaction. If they don't get it, they don't win.

Keep your PM's in mind. Remember that everyone has an area they need improvement in. Be supportive and receptive to that. Remember that realizing our faults is a difficult thing to do.

I don't want to get political, but sometimes a politician will make a speech that everyone can agree with. I won't say who made this statement (but I will tell you it was actually spoken as a eulogy), and I'll also post an edited version. I think the message is phenomenal, especially if you really think about what it means. Think about this Earth we live on. Think about how long it has been around, and how much longer it will be here. The span of our lives are SOOOOOOooooooo short in comparison. But we are here, right now, for this moment of time and we share this moment of time with each other. Everyone is really looking for the same thing, when it comes down to it: happiness. Everyone wants to be happy. And we are all on this forum for the same reason...

"But we can perhaps remember – even if only for a time – that those who live with us are our brothers; that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek – as we do – nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can.
"Surely this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men."



So... This is too long. I get that. You might not want to read it all. I get that, too. But the intentions are good, and I'm trying just as almost everyone else on here is trying. And if they aren't? I'm sure the mods will catch on and take appropriate action eventually!

Let's keep the good debates. Let's just make sure it remains a debate, and never an attack. And lets make sure we always think about our criticisms of others before posting something to give them the wrong impression of who we are.

[billf]

There have been times where I have gone back to read a post I made myself and thought, "that's sounds so mean" when that wasn't the intention. Sometimes it's laziness or not being able to use the same inflection as could be used in person. Either way, I usually feel like a jerk when I catch it. For the times I don't catch it: I'm sorry. It is and never has been to belittle anybody on this site other than the one person that use to be here sending me the nasty PMs.

I pick on Striker12 but we have also PMed each other and he knows I do it just to give him a hard time. I also know the reason behind the issues surrounding his spelling and grammar.

As for your advice, please keep giving it. I can't tell you how many times after reading one of your posts that I went back with a different angle to the original post. My tendency is to be too literal and technical. Your well stated thoughts and advice are greatly appreciated and welcomed by many others too, that I am sure.

You didn't direct this at any particular people yet I am embarassed to admit that I saw myself in some of the things you stated. Thank you for taking the time to issue a reality check.

[75lockwood]

This was a very interesting read, i agree very much with a lot of what you have said, when it comes to putting forth my idea's I have found that i could have put it a lot better, but in turn whenever i am corrected i always take the stance that whoever is correcting me is simply trying to help and explain the correct technique, etc regardless of the tone because i remember that this community was set up in the hope of helping people learn and grow as bowlers which is how i think everyone approach reading a post, were not trying to say your stupid or wrong, simply trying to put forward the information we have on the topic at hand.

As a side note, if you haven't already, and were interested in some of the past happening on the forums, reading thought the chatbox logs might be something to do.



Side note 2: no trolls? see post:http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads...ight=vingerard LOL

[ArtVandelay]

Just to clarify, this isnt about blame, fault, or to point fingers. I believe this is a great community, and even the most questionable of questionable posts arent meant with malice. Its something we shold all be proud of.

But there are times its easy to lose sight of whats important and I felt a reminder might be a good thing. Even those posts in question were made by people who are otherwise good people and valued posters. Im not innocent, either. No one is.

I read those chat archives, and it would be easy to get emotional and defensive. But what good did it do? It just escelated the attacks when a more appropriate answer may have been reporting the posts in question and refusing to become a part of that nonsense.

But for the record: you bet I would have gotten in on that if I were around at the time. Hahahahahaha. Id give anyone the chance for a debate and discussion, and I have a habbit of wanting to prove my point... Hahaha

[billf]

The posts were reported. First a moderator said to let him know when it happens again. We did and in turn he decided to turn off the ability for users to send him PMs. After several attempts by the moderator to get ahold of Admin and several more weeks of Admin banning that persons "new" user names they finally banned his entire IP address. Yes, I took the issue out of the secrecy of the PMs and put it out there for all the world to see. I don't and won't hide from anybody and after several weeks of getting abusive PMs I had enough. The moderator and Admin were either unable, unwilling to help or worse yet, unable to be reached. That punk was nothing more than a cyber bully. Near the end he sent a PM with the username billfisafaggot and said he was also here as someone I post with frequently naming several users including Hammer, Charismatic and some others.
I call things the way I see them. There are times (more than I like to admit) that I first need to put my glasses on and see them correctly before commenting.

[J Anderson]

My bowling game is also far from perfect. I am, very much, a recreational bowler. At times I wonder why I am a part of this forum, because I think I take bowling MUCH, MUCH less seriously than 95% of the members here. I don't know what I contribute, at times. I find myself trying to offer advice, but realizing I'm not qualified to do so. But the reason I keep coming back is because I like the community, and I'm interested in the posts. Bowling interests me.

We need you or at least people like you as part of this forum. To my mind the more diversity in the types of bowlers who visit and post here the better. Those for whom bowling is just a game keep those of us who treat it as a serious sport from taking ourselves too seriously. Seeing things from other perspectives gives us all a better understanding of Bowling.

I appreciate this thread as a reminder to be careful in what and how we post here. I know there have been occasions where I have been misunderstood in face to face conversations where the other person could hear my tone of voice, see my facial expression, and see my body language. How much harder to communicate clearly with only letters on a screen and the occasional emoticon.

Thanks Art!

[Fishhawk]

Thanks for posting this. I joined this community after reading such great content and openness towards others. If you need a token of proof how amazing this forums members are, see the quality feedback from the videos posted. Anyone can nitpick and judge but that simply doesn't happen. To the point, I'm going to video my next practice and posting fully confident that I won't be ridiculed (I'm a large man)

[Tokes]

Wow I learn something new everyday. Lol when I introduced myself I said I was trolling the site like just reading alot and never posting and not participating. Now I know it means something totally different.

Even people who aren't as serious as others about bowling will have questions from time to time.

[GeorgiaStroker]

Wow I learn something new everyday. Lol when I introduced myself I said I was trolling the site like just reading alot and never posting and not participating. Now I know it means something totally different.

Even people who aren't as serious as others about bowling will have questions from time to time.

There is a big difference between "trolling" and "lurking".

[panbanger]

Before I became internet-savy, "trolling" to me was synonymous with a method of fishing. Growing up in southern Louisiana, it was common for people to talk about trolling when they were going shrimping i.e. fishing for shrimp. I have a feeling this was the trolling he was talking about when he said he was trolling the forums.

I have nothing else to add. But I really feel that this is the post that will win me the free ball this week.