Aslan's Scores (of the non-lady kind)

[Mike White]

Human beings fight to hold on to their beliefs. Of course we could list every single thing that can possibly cause carry down today, but doing so just makes it more difficult for individuals to let go of their outdated beliefs that are irrelevant 98% of the time. Once again, Mike, I'm just trying to help. Everyday I see bowlers trying to adjust for carry down that doesn't exist and it just doesn't work a great, great majority of the time.

Is this page on Kegel the source of your opinion about carry down?

[RobLV1]

Is this page on Kegel the source of your opinion about carry down?

One of many, including numerous discussions with Robert Smith after his discussions with Kegel directly.

[Aslan]

2. Please, please stop talking about carry down. Unless you have someone throwing plastic or urethane on your pair, it doesn't exist. Adjusting for carry down will only get you in trouble.

On league night, there are generally 1-2 bowlers (about 1 per team) throwing plastic, urethane, or house balls.

You also have to factor in that, as the skill level improves, each bowler then tends to throw plastic at spares. Every time a bowler throws plastic at a 10-pin...there is going to be a tiny bit of carrydown.

I agree with Rob and his sources, that carrydown is NO WAY close to what it used to be in the urethane era. Carrydown then, was almost as important as resin balls burning up oil now. But...I can't say carrydown is no longer relevant. If we did away completely with urethane and plastic balls...then we can call it a myth. As long as 35-40% of shots are taken with plastic balls (strike and spare shots for those using only plastic and every corner-pin shot for higher average bowlers)...it may not be a dominant factor...but must be a factor.

I find the comment about starting with weakest and going stronger as I move in; interesting. The only issue is going back to the "A-Game vs B-Game" discussion. I 'may' be able to move 5:3 left and strike with the Reax Pearl...as the track dries out...but then I usually have to be perfect. Hopefully, I can learn to open up my shoulders more and have more confidence in that decision.

[RobLV1]

On league night, there are generally 1-2 bowlers (about 1 per team) throwing plastic, urethane, or house balls.

You also have to factor in that, as the skill level improves, each bowler then tends to throw plastic at spares. Every time a bowler throws plastic at a 10-pin...there is going to be a tiny bit of carrydown.

The "streaks" of oil that we call carry down contain between 3 and 5 units of oil. Modern reactive bowling balls don't even notice anything under 8 units. Hold on to your beliefs as long as you need to, and then toss them into the trash along with your Atari 400.

[Mike White]

The "streaks" of oil that we call carry down contain between 3 and 5 units of oil. Modern reactive bowling balls don't even notice anything under 8 units. Hold on to your beliefs as long as you need to, and then toss them into the trash along with your Atari 400.

The lanes for the testing were AMF HPL 9000 synthetic lanes.
The tests were performed with the Kegel Standard Sanction lane machine using Kegel Defense/C lane cleaner and Kegel Offence HV lane conditioner.
The lane pattern applied to the lane surface is comprised of six two to two loads oiled from the foul line to eight feet and then buffed out until forty-nine feet.
What this means is that lane conditioner is applied evenly from the second board on the left to the second board on the right for eight feet and then buffed evenly until forty-nine feet.
This means we have thirty units of lane conditioner at eight feet from the foul line, eight units of lane conditioner at thirty-two feet from the foul line, and five units at forty-seven feet which is two feet before the end of the oiling pattern.

Another statistic from the first round of tests showed only 23% of balls actually finished their hook phases in the oil pattern.

According to USBC testing, 77% of the balls tested "noticed" 5 units of oil.

6 loads of 2 to 2 is only 11 ml compared to the 23+ ml used for house conditions.

With more oil in the middle of the lane on house patterns, more oil is streaked down the lane by cross alley spare shots.

[zacks]

2. Please, please stop talking about carry down. Unless you have someone throwing plastic or urethane on your pair, it doesn't exist. Adjusting for carry down will only get you in trouble.

First of all, interesting thread on Aslan's Scores.

But the reason for my post, I actually encountered carry down midway through my third game last night. Disrupted my bid for a 700 series. Guy on my team is somewhat new to league bowling and recently got a new bowling ball (reactive resin). He basically gave up on trying to throw a hook (within the last few weeks) and went back to the way he had been throwing prior to becoming a regular league bowler.

He throws the ball straight with zero flare. Luckily, he starts a little left of center and aims at the left side pocket, but eventually he threw enough across the headpin combined with enough right side spare shots to actually start moving oil down the lane into areas that hurt my shot. By the middle of the third game I actually had to ball back up to get the drive through the pocket without getting the ball too far outside where it would grab too much friction and dive through the nose.

I had a great look last night and the carry down wasn't a killer, just something I noticed and had to adjust for. I'm usually not thinking about carry down, but with a guy like this on my team, I'm going to need to be a little more aware of it from now on. What hurt me with the carry down is when I shot a 7-pin and watched the ball skid all the way down the lane (yes I hook at left side spares and never, well almost never, miss).

Moral of the story is that carry down exists, though it is rare, and in my case with my teammate, I just hope he keeps it left of the area I'm playing or else I need to make some adjustments.

[Aslan]

Tuesday Night League: Fairly new synthetics, low-moderate oil THS

547 Series: 168-175-204

Games 1 and 2 were just disasters and horrible. Couldn't figure out which ball to use, couldn't find a line, couldn't carry, and couldn't pick up spares.

Game 3 was better. Another game where I was a couple shots away from a Dutch 200.

PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 8.89 pins
Strikes: 45% (3 turkeys, 3 doubles, and 4 singles)
Spares: 43% picked up

Single Pin spares: 62% (5/8)
Most common single-pin leave: 4-pin and 10-pin (3x each).
Also left a single 6-pin and 9-pin.

Multiple Pin spares: 25% (2/8)
Most common multi-pin leaves: 3-6-10 (2x)

Splits: 0% (0/2)

Average over 3 games: 182.33.
Average had I picked up 100% of single pin spare leaves: 193.67.

Missed my lesson Sunday...I don't know...getting real, real tired of needing 5-15 frames to figure out what the **** I'm doing.

[Aslan]

Wednesday League Night: low-oil synthetics, older brunswick lanes

499 Series: 172-187-140

Game 1 was better than the score indicates; stuck on the approach in the 3rd frame and guttered on the strike shot. Then, after a nice 2-4-10 conversion in the foundation frame...I missed a single 10-pin in the 10th.

Game 2 I got Kangas Crewed! A pocket 4-6-7-9-10 split in the 1st frame and a pocket 2-4-10 split in the 9th. Made my average, but...that knocked me out of both of my remaining brackets.

Game 3 was, well, I have no words to describe it that will make it past Bowl1820's censorship...even on his most lenient day. I blame the Defiant Edge...which I still CANNOT figure out for the life of me. Both of my other two balls, depending on conditions, have shown to be VERY reliable options....which will surprise folks given neither the Ebonite Innovate nor Radical Reax Pearl were very warmly received by bowlers. Meanwhile, the Defiant Edge...which is a very popular model...I can't figure it out. Either this is a Melee Jab type issue where I'm using it in the wrong way...or it's like the Asylum...and it's just not matching up to my game/arsenal. Move left, I miss right. Move right, I go through the nose.

PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 8.29 pins
Strikes: 35% (1 turkey, 2 doubles, and 4 singles)
Spares: 52% picked up

Single Pin spares: 66% (6/9)
Most common single-pin leave: 10-pin (4x).
Never left a single 1-pin, 3-pin, 7-pin, nor 8-pin.

Multiple Pin spares: 40% (4/10)
Most common multi-pin leave: 2-4-10 split (2x)

Splits: 25% (1/4)

Average over 3 games: 166.33.
Average had I picked up 100% of single pin spare leaves: 176.67.

Only averaging 170.50 in Game 3 of this league. Worst series I've had in awhile. It'll knock my average from the mid/upper 180s to the low 180s. I have two lessons between now and the 20th, and I guess I'm overdue.

[Amyers]

Wednesday League Night: low-oil synthetics, older brunswick lanes

499 Series: 172-187-140


Game 2 I got Kangas Crewed! A pocket 4-6-7-9-10 split in the 1st frame and a pocket 2-4-10 split in the 9th. Made my average, but...that knocked me out of both of my remaining brackets.

I don't see how either of those are possible on a pocket hit unless your definition of pocket is much larger than mine.

the Defiant Edge...which is a very popular model...I can't figure it out. Either this is a Melee Jab type issue where I'm using it in the wrong way...or it's like the Asylum...and it's just not matching up to my game/arsenal. Move left, I miss right. Move right, I go through the nose

Make sure you work with your coach with that ball. You're trying to play the wrong angle or at the wrong time with it. It's not a bad ball your coach should be able to help you figure out how to use it. Without seeing you actually throw it it's hard to diagnose the problem.

[Aslan]

Saturday Weekly Color-Pin Tournament: Older Brunswick Synthetics

585 Series: 195-227-163

PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 8.97 pins
Strikes: 47% (1 5-bagger, 1 turkey, 1 double, and 6 singles)
Spares: 64% picked up

Single Pin spares: 85% (6/7)
Most common single-pin leave: 3-pin, 4-pin, 9-pin (2x each)
Also left a single 10-pin.

Multiple Pin spares: 50% (5/10)
Most common multi-pin leaves: n/a (1x each)

Splits: 0% (0/3).

Average over 3 games: 195.00.
Average had I picked up 100% of single pin spare leaves: 197.67.

One of the guys on the pair was supposedly some regional PBA guy or something...but he had a date that looked like a stripper and he wasn't really trying (to bowl). But, I used it as motivation and managed to make some pretty good shots. But, as has been the case since I changed arsenals, once it came time to use the Defiant Edge...problems ensued.