Aslan's Scores (of the non-lady kind)

[Aslan]

Hey Aslan, I'm usually just lurking on your thread

Understandable.

but for some reason when I watched this video I thought about you.

How bad are they at bowling that it reminded you of me? Oh...just watched it...yikes! Apparently "perfect" has a different translation in Japanese.

Classic examples of the 2 ladies playing either the wrong line or the wrong ball and not adjusting. The older lady stayed with the same line and ball the whole match, the younger lady stayed with the wrong line but at least tried to switch balls after 5 frames. I think to Rob's point if you want until your sure your release is perfect before making a change then it's going to be too late kind of like in the video. I think both ladies should have moved right a few boards and played a straighter shot or at least tried some other things because what they kept doing wasn't working.

And that's a perfect example of where the disagreement is. You and Rob see them missing and immediately think, "wrong ball, wrong line, not adjusting to what the lanes are showing you." I see those two ladies and I see a younger (somewhat hot) lady with a horrible approach that moves laterally and would make consistency near impossible. And I see an older lady (that looks like that dude from Fantasy Island) who was clearly having sticking/sliding issues at the line. It didn't matter what ball they threw nor line they played...they had poor approaches, poor footwork, poor timing, and poor execution. Maybe on a THS...they are 200-average bowlers...but once the conditions got more difficult...welcome to reality. My reality.

[Aslan]

Monday League: long/wide THS, synthetics, plays like a longer sport (48-51ft) with some out of bounds at 1-4.

459 Series: 151-140-168

One vacant spot, one teammate still out of town, and one teammate that once again showed up late..."nearly" caused us to forfeit AGAIN. Not happy with this team.

Things seemed okay in practice. I had a lesson with Mark on Sunday so I was probably injecting things from the lesson into my game when I probably needed to practice them a bit more before putting them into practice.

No Game-by Game is necessary. Same issues. I tried to reduce ball speed to get back to the pocket better...but I was still leaving 2-4-8, 1-2-4, 2-pin, 1-2-4. And when I tried to correct...4-6-7-9-10 split or a 6-10 through the nose.

Game 2, 2-4-5, 2-4-10, 6-pin through the nose, 4-7-10 through the nose, then back to the 1-2-4.

Game 3....5-9 split, 2-5-8, 1-2-4-8, 1-2-4, and 1-2.

PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 8.12 pins
Strikes: 27% (1 double, and 7 singles)
Spares: 52% picked up

Single Pin spares: 40% (2/5)
Most common single-pin leaves: n/a
Left the 1-pin, 2-pin, 6-pin, 7-pin, and 10-pin (1x each)

Multiple Pin spares: 56% (9/16)
Most common multi-pin leave: 1-2-4 (5x).

Splits: 0% (0/4)

Average over 3 games: 153.00.
Average had I picked up 100% of single pin spare leaves: 162.33.

Good times. NOT!

I tried everything. I tried playing up 2nd arrow. I tried playing way outside around the 3-board. And I even moved way inside to try to play a more inside line over the 15-20 board area. Tried to stay with one ball since everyone seems to think I'm going through my bag too much or too quickly. Finally switched to the Dark Encounter (from the Lethal Revolver) near the end of Game 2...but that didn't really do much different.

So yeah...get your "wish lists" together regarding Aslan's Charity Equipment Auction. I figure I'll auction off almost everything...maybe sign some of the items if requested. I mean, it's like your bidding on a piece of history. Gotta wait for the season to end though. And I found out my dumb Monday league doesn't sweep till May! Ughhhh!! I gotta bowl like this till May!!? But that's cool...even if I sell all my stuff...I can still use my Grandpa's conventionally drilled urethane ball to finish out the season.

I did SO badly that despite my left knee hurting and my right elbow throbbing...I bowled a few practice games post-league play.

512 Series: 180-131-201

PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 8.53 pins
Strikes: 32% (1 turkey, 1 double, and 6 singles)
Spares: 60% picked up

Single Pin spares: 75% (6/8)
Most common single-pin leave: 10-pin (3x)
Never left a single 1-pin, 2-pin, 3-pin, 7-pin, nor 8-pin.

Multiple Pin spares: 50% (6/12)
Most common multi-pin leaves: n/a (1x each)

Splits: 0% (0/1)

Average over 3 games: 170.67.
Average had I picked up 100% of single pin spare leaves: 178.67.

Used the Asylum and Melee Jab a bit. Game 3 was a missed single 6-pin away from being clean.

Didn't figure much out other than getting my hand more under and behind the ball versus on the top of the ball. That's been a constant work in progress. I'm tempted to switch to a 3-step or even a 1-step approach just to eliminate my speed from the equation.

[JasonNJ]

And that's a perfect example of where the disagreement is. You and Rob see them missing and immediately think, "wrong ball, wrong line, not adjusting to what the lanes are showing you." I see those two ladies and I see a younger (somewhat hot) lady with a horrible approach that moves laterally and would make consistency near impossible. And I see an older lady (that looks like that dude from Fantasy Island) who was clearly having sticking/sliding issues at the line. It didn't matter what ball they threw nor line they played...they had poor approaches, poor footwork, poor timing, and poor execution. Maybe on a THS...they are 200-average bowlers...but once the conditions got more difficult...welcome to reality. My reality.

Yes, I agree poor footwork, poor approaches really weird timing but even with all that, I still think they should have tried to adjust to something or anything really because you only have 10 frames and it's still a competition.

On a completely unrelated side note. I can't read Japanese but I believe they posted the averages and birthdays on the 2 ladies and only posted the average for the male bowler. The older lady is 64 and the younger one is a good looking 41.

[Aslan]

Yes, I agree poor footwork, poor approaches really weird timing but even with all that, I still think they should have tried to adjust to something or anything really because you only have 10 frames and it's still a competition.

I guess I'm just on an island on this one but I know I'm not the only one that lives by the creed that you "don't adjust off of bad shots". If your timing is bad/horrible/wrong...or any other descriptor...who cares what ball or line you're playing? Throw a house ball. It doesn't matter. Save your money. A ball can't fix what was going on with those two ladies. No chance.

You can't pull a shot and then go immediately back to your bag and say, "Hmmm...what ball do I use when I completely pull a shot? I better switch to the Sinister....because the Haywire works better when I don't pull my shot." That's redunkulus.

[bowl1820]

You can't pull a shot and then go immediately back to your bag and say, "Hmmm...what ball do I use when I completely pull a shot? I better switch to the Sinister....because the Haywire works better when I don't pull my shot." That's redunkulus.

You just can't grasp the concept can you.

If you pull the ball or leak it out, you watch what the ball does. That tells you things about a area of the lane you are not currently playing, that information will help you in making a decisions about any adjustments you may want to make.

Let's try this.

Bowler X is standing on 20 shooting 2nd arrow, they're not making any strikes. Then one frame the bowler pulls their shot 2 boards in hitting 12 and the ball crushes the pocket for a strike.

Which of these should they do?

A- Say "Well I pulled that shot, it got a strike but that dosen't mean anything it was a bad shot." and go back to standing on 20 shooting 2nd arrow, Which they know is not working and hoping something will change and that line will start working.

or

B- Say "Hey that got a strike! Maybe I should try deliberately playing that line and see what happens!" and then make a 2 board adjustment based off that "bad" shot.






.

[RobLV1]

You just can't grasp the concept can you.
.

Amen to that!

[Amyers]

You just can't grasp the concept can you.

If you pull the ball or leak it out, you watch what the ball does. That tells you things about a area of the lane you are not currently playing, that information will help you in making a decisions about any adjustments you may want to make.

Let's try this.

Bowler X is standing on 20 shooting 2nd arrow, they're not making any strikes. Then one frame the bowler pulls their shot 2 boards in hitting 12 and the ball crushes the pocket for a strike.

Which of these should they do?

A- Say "Well I pulled that shot, it got a strike but that dosen't mean anything it was a bad shot." and go back to standing on 20 shooting 2nd arrow, Which they know is not working and hoping something will change and that line will start working.

or

B- Say "Hey that got a strike! Maybe I should try deliberately playing that line and see what happens!" and then make a 2 board adjustment based off that "bad" shot.






.

I have consistently agreed with you and Rob on this point for quite a while now but I've been in the process of making some changes to my game over the last 2 months and I think I'm beginning to understand Aslan's point of view here some also. In truth you are both correct in different ways but just are not seeing the other's point of view.

In your example Bowl1820 is a bowler who threw a proper ball but missed their target by a couple of boards and learned something from it. This is always how I have viewed this in the past myself and I've actually changed my line off a misses in the past.

To take what Aslan's experiencing in context. You throw ball 1 it strikes has nice movement to the pocket. Ball 2 miss a board right but another strike. Ball 3 misses 2 boards inside washout. Ball 4 hits target washout. Ball 5 Makes 2-1 right adjustment hits target washout. Ball 6 hits target goes through the nose for a big split. What did you learn from any of this? Nothing except that unless your able to at least marginally have a repeatable release what your eyes tell you doesn't mean much.

I recently changed from a very short approach with a very cupped release that produced a low speed ball but with consistent motion. To a longer approach with the ball higher in the setup which has raised my ball speed but I was no longer able to use the very cupped release that I have for many years. I've found myself in some games having experiences like those listed above and it become frustrating just not knowing what's coming next. Honestly when your bowling like that even hitting your mark is irrelevant because you just simply don't know what's going to happen with the ball regardless of where it started from. During my rough patch with this I seen balls hit the exact same target at the arrows and even hit the same break point produce reactions from Brooklyn strike to hitting the 6 pin. If that's happening your not learning anything except you better fix your release.

So well thrown balls that missed your target you can learn a lot from. Poorly thrown balls that miss your target don't tell you much.

[bowl1820]

I have consistently agreed with you and Rob on this point for quite a while now but I've been in the process of making some changes to my game over the last 2 months and I think I'm beginning to understand Aslan's point of view here some also. In truth you are both correct in different ways but just are not seeing the other's point of view.

In your example Bowl1820 is a bowler who threw a proper ball but missed their target by a couple of boards and learned something from it. This is always how I have viewed this in the past myself and I've actually changed my line off a misses in the past.

Yes, if you have a new bowler or one having some other release issues and their just spraying the ball all over the lane. Then yes, The information doesn't particularly help in that instance.

But in Aslan's case I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, that he's been bowling long enough. That he has a somewhat consistent release and he should be able use the information that can be gathered from less than perfect shots.

To take what Aslan's experiencing in context. You throw ball 1 it strikes has nice movement to the pocket. Ball 2 miss a board right but another strike. Ball 3 misses 2 boards inside washout. Ball 4 hits target washout. Ball 5 Makes 2-1 right adjustment hits target washout. Ball 6 hits target goes through the nose for a big split. What did you learn from any of this? Nothing except that unless your able to at least marginally have a repeatable release what your eyes tell you doesn't mean much.

In this case here, the bowler to me is making a pretty repeatable shot (and he's slightly speed dominate). Their either hitting their mark or just missing 1 board right or 2 left.

Ball 1: His starting line, Here watching the pins would be helpful in determining how good of a strike it was.
Ball 2: Told him he had recovery to the right of ball 1's line.
Ball 3: Shows he had a lot hold left of ball 1's line, which would be good for later as he moved in during the night.
Ball 4: Shows his starting line, may be a little too close in to the hold area left.
Ball 5-6: Okay, he made adjustment. This is where experience comes in, IMO there were 3 choices.

1- Roll ball 2's line, play that recovery area.
2- Play ball 1's line, but change to a more aggressive (or one with more surface) ball.
3- Move.

Me, I would most likely try "1" first, Because if the bowler was still missing left/right about that same amount. He'd most likely still have good recovery to the right and he'd have a little less hold to the left which should reduce the chance of leaving a washout.

then "2" if 1 didn't work out.

In the case of the 2-1 right adjustment of ball's 5-6, the balls reactions IMO showed that line was maybe speed sensitive. ball 5 was most likely fast, with 6 being slow. Depending on the bowler he would need to maybe change lines or change balls to better match up with the speed he is comfortable with.

I recently changed from a very short approach with a very cupped release that produced a low speed ball but with consistent motion. To a longer approach with the ball higher in the setup which has raised my ball speed but I was no longer able to use the very cupped release that I have for many years. I've found myself in some games having experiences like those listed above and it become frustrating just not knowing what's coming next. Honestly when your bowling like that even hitting your mark is irrelevant because you just simply don't know what's going to happen with the ball regardless of where it started from. During my rough patch with this I seen balls hit the exact same target at the arrows and even hit the same break point produce reactions from Brooklyn strike to hitting the 6 pin. If that's happening your not learning anything except you better fix your release.

In this instance your learning a new release, Now this doesn't minimize the amount of information you can gain from those missed/bad shots. Just that you can't fully utilize it yet.

But with your experience and as your release settles down, I'm sure you'll be able to start incorporating more of that information into the adjustments you are making. (You may already be doing it to a extent and not realizing it.)

So well thrown balls that missed your target you can learn a lot from. Poorly thrown balls that miss your target don't tell you much.

I believe even a poorly thrown shot still can tell you a lot, like lane conditions in other areas, how the ball reacts at different speeds etc. But if you don't have the ability/experience to capitalize on that information, Then yes the information doesn't particularly help.

[Amyers]

Yes, if you have a new bowler or one having some other release issues and their just spraying the ball all over the lane. Then yes, The information doesn't particularly help in that instance.

But in Aslan's case I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, that he's been bowling long enough. That he has a somewhat consistent release and he should be able use the information that can be gathered from less than perfect shots.




In this case here, the bowler to me is making a pretty repeatable shot (and he's slightly speed dominate). Their either hitting their mark or just missing 1 board right or 2 left.

Ball 1: His starting line, Here watching the pins would be helpful in determining how good of a strike it was.
Ball 2: Told him he had recovery to the right of ball 1's line.
Ball 3: Shows he had a lot hold left of ball 1's line, which would be good for later as he moved in during the night.
Ball 4: Shows his starting line, may be a little too close in to the hold area left.
Ball 5-6: Okay, he made adjustment. This is where experience comes in, IMO there were 3 choices.

1- Roll ball 2's line, play that recovery area.
2- Play ball 1's line, but change to a more aggressive (or one with more surface) ball.
3- Move.

Me, I would most likely try "1" first, Because if the bowler was still missing left/right about that same amount. He'd most likely still have good recovery to the right and he'd have a little less hold to the left which should reduce the chance of leaving a washout.

then "2" if 1 didn't work out.

In the case of the 2-1 right adjustment of ball's 5-6, the balls reactions IMO showed that line was maybe speed sensitive. ball 5 was most likely fast, with 6 being slow. Depending on the bowler he would need to maybe change lines or change balls to better match up with the speed he is comfortable with.




In this instance your learning a new release, Now this doesn't minimize the amount of information you can gain from those missed/bad shots. Just that you can't fully utilize it yet.

But with your experience and as your release settles down, I'm sure you'll be able to start incorporating more of that information into the adjustments you are making. (You may already be doing it to a extent and not realizing it.)




I believe even a poorly thrown shot still can tell you a lot, like lane conditions in other areas, how the ball reacts at different speeds etc. But if you don't have the ability/experience to capitalize on that information, Then yes the information doesn't particularly help.

You are correct in the fact that there is still info there. I've since modified my release and I am thankful that I believe I've put that behind me but it really did cross my mind when I was bowling like that "My god is this really what it's like to bowl like Aslan!!!" I don't say that to run him down I just felt like what I was doing has been described by him a million times in his posts and it was a problem I've never really had before. It's immensely frustrating to realize that even if I hit my mark I had no real clue where the ball was going to end up.

I agree that Aslan's a better bowler than he gives himself credit for but when I was having this issue it would pop up and destroy the middle of a game or a whole game and then fade back away and come back again. It really does leave you not trusting yourself or what you see. It was until I realized the issue wasn't missing the target but a failure on my part to put my hand in a strong position to release the ball on a constant basis that I was able to fix the problem.

[RobLV1]

As the only one of us who has actually met, given lessons to, and bowled with Aslan, let me tell you two things about him:

1. He is not the lousy bowler that he pretends to be on these boards. He is not as good as he would like to be, but he's getting there.
2. He firmly believes that half the fun of participating here is to become someone that he is not. While most of us do this to a small degree, he takes it to a whole new level!