Aslan's Scores (of the non-lady kind)

[Aslan]

Yes, if you have a new bowler or one having some other release issues and their just spraying the ball all over the lane. Then yes, The information doesn't particularly help in that instance.

But in Aslan's case I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, that he's been bowling long enough. That he has a somewhat consistent release and he should be able use the information that can be gathered from less than perfect shots.

Well, now I see why you're so wrong on this issue...that is a horribly wrong assumption to make!

I agree with Amyers...I think we're more in agreement than it seems...we're just wording it a bit differently.

I think, for the sake of peace and unity and the goodwill of mankind...lets just say it like this:
Any time you throw a ball...where it DOESN'T go in the gutter...you can potentially learn something from the shot. And I'll even concede that even bad bowlers...if you close your eyes and wait to watch until after they let go of the ball...you can potentially learn some minor, small things from their ball motion. But, you have to make at WORST a "below average" shot before I'd recommend moving off it.

And I'm not speaking theoretically here. I've moved off bad shots. 2013, all of 2014, and half of 2015...I was adjusting off every shot that didn't strike. I had all kinds of adjustments I was making. I had a ball switching system. But what I learned was...sometimes I'd "forget" to make a move or ball change...and the next shot would hit perfectly. And I started to realize...my release is SO bad...and speed SO high...that slight variations in my timing, approach, release, and footwork...were having FAR more of an impact than movements and ball path recognition, and lane transition. And I've found that on nights when things are really, really going well...I rarely move or switch balls. When things are going BADLY...I might make 9 lateral adjustments on each lane and go through all 5 strike balls.

So, I concede that watching the ball on the lane, regardless of shot perfection, is possible and could provide insight. But it's a fairly universal concept that you "don't adjust off of bad shots". The trick in the equation, and why it's so easy to argue about is...what is "good enough"? Again, that would be a great article idea...what is a good enough shot to adjust off of and what kinda of shots would you not adjust off of. Without assuming that the person reading it is a professional.

I mean, I've seen bowlers completely pull a shot and dump it in the channel 3/4 of the way down the lane...and they go back to their bag, slam their ball down, and grab a different ball mumbling...I hate that &#$%$%ing ball!!! They usually proceed to do that until they run out of balls in their arsenal. No reasoning, no strategy, no system...just frustration leading to a random variable.

[Aslan]

As the only one of us who has actually met, given lessons to, and bowled with Aslan, let me tell you two things about him:

Uh oh.

1. He is not the lousy bowler that he pretends to be on these boards.

You do realize there is video evidence (click my USBC number in my signature) and statistical evidence (bowl.com) that actually might refute that belief right?

He is not as good as he would like to be, but he's getting there.

Actually, the series score graph was actually trending in a positive direction until recently. But again, it's kinda like "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Some people have watched me bowl and asked if I'm a professional. Others have watched me bowl and are the first to point out I shouldn't quit my day job.

2. He firmly believes that half the fun of participating here is to become someone that he is not. While most of us do this to a small degree, he takes it to a whole new level!

Hmm. Okay, for the sake of agreement, I WILL say that I am not AS MUCH of a jack*** in person that I appear to be online. Just like you are far more likeable (as is MWhite) in person than you may appear in the forums. Just like Iceman doesn't seem as crazy in person as he does online. So, there is some truth to that. But with relatively few exceptions, most of what I write on here is in fact a good reflection of my personality.

Think of it like Eddie Haskell in "Leave it to Beaver". Whenever he's around Beaver's parents, he's so nice that it's sickening. But in private, he's a complete jerk-wad. I'm not to either end of those extremes...but I think most people have the ability to "tone down" their inner demons when in public and interacting with other humans...and I think most people do have a darker, edgier side to them that tends to come out in private. The internet is simply a mode that is suited for that.

After 4 decades...one thing I've found to be almost universally true is that much of our happiness is determined by our expectations. Give a poor person from rural West Virginia $400 and they'd spend the entire year feeling blessed. Give Paris Hilton $400 and she'll probably spit on you. Different expectations.

Most bowlers don't care. They don't care if they win, if they score high, they don't care about bowling as a sport, they have no lofty goals or any goals at all, and they spend a minimal amount of money just to have something to do once a week. If they meet Rob and he gives them a lesson and they go from averaging 93 to averaging 138...they're happy. They are content. My goals are more lofty. I'm not bowling "for fun". I HAVE FUN when I bowl well...but I'm miserable all week long when I don't. Most people watch other bowlers and think, "Oh, I wish I was as good as him!" I look at that same bowler and think, "How can a guy with that quirky, random approach and top-of-the-ball release average 189??!!!"

And the "Golden Question" is still out there...floating around...lingering. Even after Iceman had come and gone and come back and then gone, etc...the question still remains? Can a bad bowler work hard enough to become an elite bowler? Were your parents telling you the truth when they said "you can be anything you put your mind to"? Or is that just a fairy tale we tell children to keep them off the pole and out of jail? Is it just that some people are gifted and some are not? I'm still hanging onto hope that Iceman is wrong. And that hard work, patience, perserverence, devotion, money, time, instruction....I'm still holding out hope that hard work can trump "The Gift". But if I can't make it to the next level...despite my investment of time and money...despite taking lessons from not only 3 of the top 100 coaches in the country...but also on a monthly basis from Mark Baker...arguably the best bowling coach in the World...then I'm wrong. And that's that. Iceman is right, I am wrong. And that's a horrible reality...because if he's right about the Gift...what about all his other crazy concepts?? Is the government poisoning us? Are Aliens impregnating our women? I hope not.

[Amyers]

The worst thing about it is that it doesn't take much to wreck a game. On a night when your not striking you throw two washouts you're in the 160's at best add a split and a missed spare you're in the 140's. Doesn't make you a bad bowler just struggling with the wrong thing.

I've seen bowlers change balls off of gutter balls too. you just have to shake your head and laugh.

[Tony]

Understandable.


How bad are they at bowling that it reminded you of me? Oh...just watched it...yikes! Apparently "perfect" has a different translation in Japanese.



And that's a perfect example of where the disagreement is. You and Rob see them missing and immediately think, "wrong ball, wrong line, not adjusting to what the lanes are showing you." I see those two ladies and I see a younger (somewhat hot) lady with a horrible approach that moves laterally and would make consistency near impossible. And I see an older lady (that looks like that dude from Fantasy Island) who was clearly having sticking/sliding issues at the line. It didn't matter what ball they threw nor line they played...they had poor approaches, poor footwork, poor timing, and poor execution. Maybe on a THS...they are 200-average bowlers...but once the conditions got more difficult...welcome to reality. My reality.

Granted they have some issues with their game, but in all honesty they probably don't see the same way you see it, and they should be making adjustments. You say there's no adjustment that can fix those things but you know that you see people with poor form and goofy habits averaging 200 in leagues all over the place. They are making adjustments and finding the pocket in spite of the wandering, bad timing, poor release and other such items. The way I see it is if the ball doesn't do what you wanted it to do you make some slight adjustment to try and correct it. If needed you make larger adjustments/ switch balls or whatever you can to try and improve your odds. I'm no expert but even I have got to the point that when practicing I will throw on different lines in an attempt to learn how to adjust. I'll play a game only shooting outside 2nd arrow another over 2nd arrow and 3rd and 4th just to get the feel of how I need to play the angle to get my ball back to the pocket with power.

[Tony]

Uh oh.




And the "Golden Question" is still out there...floating around...lingering. Even after Iceman had come and gone and come back and then gone, etc...the question still remains? Can a bad bowler work hard enough to become an elite bowler? Were your parents telling you the truth when they said "you can be anything you put your mind to"? Or is that just a fairy tale we tell children to keep them off the pole and out of jail? Is it just that some people are gifted and some are not? I'm still hanging onto hope that Iceman is wrong. And that hard work, patience, perserverence, devotion, money, time, instruction....I'm still holding out hope that hard work can trump "The Gift". But if I can't make it to the next level...despite my investment of time and money...despite taking lessons from not only 3 of the top 100 coaches in the country...but also on a monthly basis from Mark Baker...arguably the best bowling coach in the World...then I'm wrong. And that's that. Iceman is right, I am wrong. And that's a horrible reality...because if he's right about the Gift...what about all his other crazy concepts?? Is the government poisoning us? Are Aliens impregnating our women? I hope not.

The government is poisoning us ! Just to get that out of the way !
The one concept that you might have overlooked is exactly how coaching is supposed to make us better, the idea of going to a guy who tells me what I do wrong and how it's done correctly is one aspect, from your descriptions you get that but the secondary part and maybe the most important part is learning our own capabilities and learning to detect and correct our own errors, this essentially is the point that enables you to be your own coach and make corrections or diagnose our own problems and make corrections. Gaining a least a portion of that knowledge is what can make the difference in day to day play, it doesn't replace getting some good coaching but adds to it and gives you a gift of your own that makes you a better player.

[Aslan]

Wednesday League: Easier THS.

481 Series: 146-158-177

PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 8.50 pins
Strikes: 34% (1 double and 9 singles)
Spares: 55% picked up

Single Pin spares: 80% (4/5)
Most common single-pin leave: 5-pin (4x)
Also left a 2-pin.

Multiple Pin spares: 46% (7/15)
Most common multi-pin leaves: n/a

Splits: 0% (0/3)

Average over 3 games: 160.33.
Average had I picked up 100% of single pin spare leaves: 164.33.

Two weeks ago I bowled my only sub-145 game.

Last week I set another reverse milestone by having a lower series at this center than my Monday center.

Now my first series under 500.

Had a lesson beforehand that went very well...shot a 237 during the lesson.

Kept a detailed notebook of the series because I was going to post what happened, how I felt the shot went, the speed, and the adjustments I made. I figured if I posted that detail...it'd give Amyers and Rob a bit more to go on. But honestly, I'm 45 posts away from "Bowling God" status on the site and I don't really want to post much. If I don't break out of this slump, I want to save up my last posts for selling my stuff...without hitting "God status" which I clearly think is not only undeserved...but at this point giving me "God status" only serves as a mockery to the site. At least Iceman had flowing white hair...kinda like a "Greek God"...not to mention he DID defeat me soundly at the Aslan vs. Iceman Challenge.

I need to smoke some weed and go to bed. I'm mentally and physically exhausted after tonight.

[Amyers]

Wednesday League: Easier THS.

481 Series: 146-158-177

PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 8.50 pins
Strikes: 34% (1 double and 9 singles)
Spares: 55% picked up

Single Pin spares: 80% (4/5)
Most common single-pin leave: 5-pin (4x)
Also left a 2-pin.

Multiple Pin spares: 46% (7/15)
Most common multi-pin leaves: n/a

Splits: 0% (0/3)

Average over 3 games: 160.33.
Average had I picked up 100% of single pin spare leaves: 164.33.

Two weeks ago I bowled my only sub-145 game.

Last week I set another reverse milestone by having a lower series at this center than my Monday center.

Now my first series under 500.

Had a lesson beforehand that went very well...shot a 237 during the lesson.

Kept a detailed notebook of the series because I was going to post what happened, how I felt the shot went, the speed, and the adjustments I made. I figured if I posted that detail...it'd give Amyers and Rob a bit more to go on. But honestly, I'm 45 posts away from "Bowling God" status on the site and I don't really want to post much. If I don't break out of this slump, I want to save up my last posts for selling my stuff...without hitting "God status" which I clearly think is not only undeserved...but at this point giving me "God status" only serves as a mockery to the site. At least Iceman had flowing white hair...kinda like a "Greek God"...not to mention he DID defeat me soundly at the Aslan vs. Iceman Challenge.

I need to smoke some weed and go to bed. I'm mentally and physically exhausted after tonight.

I don't know this crap happens to me all the time too. Last meeting with my coach while I was working with him I rolled 9 strikes in a row. I've never done it during league or in practice before. Felt like I was ready to go out and throw some new high scores ended league that night with a 530 something. I think it has to do with 2 things. 1 when you're working with the coach your mind is on what they are telling you and you're not thinking about everything else. 2 When you make a mistake they are there to correct it immediately instead of us throwing 2-5 bad balls while trying to figure out what's wrong.

2 things that I notice from looking at your stats. Way too many multi-pin spares which means you are not hitting the pocket enough. Which I'm sure you are all to aware of and you left 4x single pin 5 pins in three games? How does that happen even when I threw the ball at 10 mph I didn't leave many 5 pins. Tells me even when you were hitting the head pin it wasn't right or the ball wasn't performing.

It's not just you. I struggled getting the ball to hook properly Thursday and Friday last week so I spent some practice time working on my release after league. Saturday had a real nice series felt like I had it worked out. I was asked to sub last night got up there and I couldn't release the ball like I did on Saturday at all and to top it off everything I threw wanted to hook the lane. So instead of using the new improved more powerful release I spent the night using techniques to keep the ball from hooking by adjusting my hand position. I'm glad that I was able to adjust because before when I had conditions like that I would have had a poor series ended up with a 619 but the game is just weird sometimes.

[JasonNJ]

Amyers has a point, if you're hitting the pocket consistently and leaving 5 pins when is the last time you have your balls resurfaced or baked? Last year when I got back into bowling, I had no idea about ball maintenance except to clean them. I had a Storm Crux Pearl and was bowling great with it but then I hit like a 6 week slump and at first I thought it was me but it was the ball had died on me. It wasn't until one night, I felt like I was throwing it well I hit pocket every shot but kept leaving 8 pins or pocket splits that I figured our something was wrong with the ball. So I baked and resurfaced the ball and my ball reaction came back and my slump was over.

[Tony]

I've noticed in several instances there are references to getting high, it would seem to me that in itself might be a limiting factor.
It's a know fact that smoking has an almost immediate effect on the brain in area's that regulate balance, posture, coordination of movement, and reaction time.
Seems to me that that is going to be working against you.
If the plan is to get high and bowl then why waste money on all the balls and lessons, just bowl and have fun.
We have a team of stoners in one of my leagues but they don't smoke until after they are done bowling because they know it jacks with their ability to bowl well...

[Aslan]

I've noticed in several instances there are references to getting high, it would seem to me that in itself might be a limiting factor.

I've been ins such a funk lately that I actually considered that.

Just for everyone's background information:
1) If you're a kid reading this, stay in school and drugs ain't cool. Now go play Halo for a minute while the adults talk. Or better yet, go practice at the bowling alley.
..now that they've left the room...
2) I have a liscense, so it's 100% legal. Okay, 80% legal.
3) I have semi-breakable "rules" that I adhere to such as I don't usually smoke during weekdays because I have a job I need to keep. I also try not to smoke 1-2 hours before bowling. I experimented with it as a way of getting me less "in my own head"; but it turns out it negatively affects my balance so it just didn't work. I also don't usually smoke in my own place...try to keep it outside for smell issues. I try not to in my car, same reasons.

So, that being said...with this crazy near 2 month suckfest slump...I actually started bowling where I made sure not even to touch the stuff anytime near/before bowling thinking maybe it was just an "effect" that I couldn't pick up on.

So, yeah. I actually did try to isolate that issue and I don't usually bowl within 1-2 hours of getting high anyways.