Aslan's Scores (of the non-lady kind)

[Mike White]

Thank you for being kind enough to serve as the spelling and grammar police for this site so we can ignore bowlers problems and not actually consider relevant advice on this forum.

Relevant advise in the Aslan's Scores thread... Shirley U. Jest.

[Timmyb]

Thank you for being kind enough to serve as the spelling and grammar police for this site so we can ignore bowlers problems and not actually consider relevant advice on this forum.

Taking this a little too seriously, I think.

[Amyers]

Taking this a little too seriously, I think.

Not really I'm still waiting for the first relevant post he's come up with since he's been back. It's fine to take pot shots at what I posted if you've got the magical solution for Aslan then post it instead of taking shots at mine.

[Mike White]

Not really I'm still waiting for the first relevant post he's come up with since he's been back. It's fine to take pot shots at what I posted if you've got the magical solution for Aslan then post it instead of taking shots at mine.

You posted the following:

RG has nothing to do with the amount a ball hook only somewhat to where it will hook on the lane.

To which I responded with:

RG effects when the ball stops hooking, not when it starts.

Was that taking a pot shot, or being non-relavent?

If you don't understand how the different RG values effect the ball, how can you intelligently decide which to use?

As for the 5.53 RG comment, that was humor, and if you can't laugh at your own (insignificant) mistakes, you're wrapped too tight.

[Amyers]

You posted the following:


To which I responded with:


Was that taking a pot shot, or being non-relavent?

If you don't understand how the different RG values effect the ball, how can you intelligently decide which to use?

As for the 5.53 RG comment, that was humor, and if you can't laugh at your own (insignificant) mistakes, you're wrapped too tight.

The comment on the Rg was in response to Aslan believing that RG controls the amount of hook and the purpose of my response was to illustrate that Rg effects where the ball will hook on the lane to some extent along with the surface and strength of the cover stock which is correct to the best of my belief. two balls with the same cover and surface the ball with the higher Rg will go longer before hooking.

You are correct that Rg also effects how long the ball can hook but that isn't the only effect.

[Timmyb]

Not really I'm still waiting for the first relevant post he's come up with since he's been back. It's fine to take pot shots at what I posted if you've got the magical solution for Aslan then post it instead of taking shots at mine.

Okay, I'm still a newbie on here, but I'll be daring and post a little advice. This place is loaded with irrelevant postings. If you feel that one of them is, just don't reply to them. Easy!

[Amyers]

Okay, I'm still a newbie on here, but I'll be daring and post a little advice. This place is loaded with irrelevant postings. If you feel that one of them is, just don't reply to them. Easy!

I don't mind irrelevancy in itself but if we cut what was intended to be helpful into a series of grammatical corrections and arguments about definitions that really don't concern the original post to where the original message is lost who does that help but maybe I failed to find the humor in it and over reacted after taking a few posts in aggregate if so apologies.

[Aslan]

Monday League: Older Brunswick synthetics.

617 Series: 217 (clean)-191-209

Sanded the Dark Encounter down to 1000 abralon and hand polished it...just to show Amyers I at least "sort of" listen to him. Granted I didn't bring it to the pro shop to put it on the ball spinner...but I just can't bring my self to pay $25 to do something so basic to a ball I paid $75 for. But I DO plan on investing in my own ball spinner....gonna start looking on Ebay.

Game 1 felt great...the Dark Encounter was hitting very well...just had trouble carrying the 7-pin from time to time...but I resisted the urge to make a ball change.

Game 2 I started off with a flat 10-pin...and missed it...so I needed to do my best to not lose my mental focus...a missed single-pin in the first frame has a tendency to really kill me...but I kept things clean except for a 4-10 split in the 9th frame. Switched to the Loaded Revolver after the first couple frames...probably should have switched earlier...but I'm trying not to switch too early.

Game 3 I felt good...had to make a small adjustment in the 10th with my hand position and target...and it worked well and I salvaged the 209...only open was a 4-7-9 split in the 6th frame.

PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 9.26 pins
Strikes: 50% (1 turkey, 5 doubles, and 4 singles)
Spares: 78% picked up

Single Pin spares: 88% (8/9)
Most common single-pin leaves: 7-pin (3x)
Also left a single 2-pin, 6-pin, 9-pin, and 10-pin.

Multiple Pin spares: 60% (3/5)
Most common multi-pin leave: 4-7 (2x)

Splits: 0% (0/2)

Average over 3 games: 205.67.
Average had I picked up 100% of single pin spare leaves: 209.33.

I think most of my struggles at this house were not only that it's a tougher shot than at the AMF house...and transitions faster due to the age of the lanes...but the pattern really seems more narrow. I can't play the 7-11 track at this house...and I can't use my speed up the outside. I have to play 12-15...not my comfort zone...not as much miss room as the AMF house...but there IS a shot there...I just have to execute better and more consistently.

Took 3 out of 4 points from one of the top teams in the league. Still had to deal with drama between the two youngsters on the team...8 more weeks...8 more weeks.

Thanks everyone for your help...it's been a rough ride in the new house...but I'm still hanging in there.

[Mike White]

The comment on the Rg was in response to Aslan believing that RG controls the amount of hook and the purpose of my response was to illustrate that Rg effects where the ball will hook on the lane to some extent along with the surface and strength of the cover stock which is correct to the best of my belief. two balls with the same cover and surface the ball with the higher Rg will go longer before hooking.

You are correct that Rg also effects how long the ball can hook but that isn't the only effect.

RG effect how much force (torque) on the surface of the ball is required to accelerate the balls rev rate.

Cover stock, surface prep, rev rate off the hand, and depth of oil effect effect when the ball starts hooking.


Before the ball senses friction (oil gets thin enough for the cover stock to come in contact with the lane) there isn't any torque on the surface of the ball, therefore RG is irrelevant.

Since the cover stock isn't changing, and the surface prep isn't changing, what ultimately determines where the ball begins to hook is the depth of the oil between the ball and the lane.

If you use a polished ball, hooking begins when the oil is thinner, roughing up the surface it begins while the oil is thicker.

As soon as the ball senses friction, the torque begins, and the ball begins to hook.

Most of this early hook is what you think of as the ball reading the mid lane.

Before the end of the pattern (on a THS) the ball (thrown from left to right) will hook shortly after exiting the side of the oil pattern.

But it can only hook until it's back snug up against the oil

To hook further left, it would need to climb up the wall of oil, but in climbing up towards the top the oil, it loses friction, and slides back to the right where the oil is thinner, where again it senses friction.

I can't hook left, and going right causes more friction, so it follows the edge of the oil with minimal friction.

This continues until the end of the pattern where the oil thins lengthwise.

If the ball hasn't lost axis rotation, the lack of oil to the left of the ball will allow a clear visual change of direction, which will continue until the rev rate matches the speed of the ball.

Before the end of the pattern, the torque on the bottom of the ball from friction will be rather small.

So the ball won't rev up a significant amount.

However the friction that does allow the ball to hook, also causes the ball to lose axis of rotation, and slightly rev up the ball.

The less the ball has a rev rate to start, the faster it loses axis of rotation.

This is the problem Aslan is fighting. Low rev rate, quick loss of axis of rotation, and the ball doesn't generate any hooking momentum into the pins.

As the ball gets to the end of the pattern, the oil thins, and friction increases.

This makes the hook more visible, the loss of axis more visible, and the increase in revs more visible.

Those changes will continue until the rev rate matches the speed of the ball.

At that point, all of the forces are in line, all axis of rotation that is going to be lost is lost, there is no more torque on the bottom of the ball to increase rev rate because the surface of the ball is rolling on the lane.

Remember RG effects how much force is required to accelerate the rev rate.

The lower the RG, the ball will rev up faster with the same torque (friction from the lane), and therefore match the speed of the ball earlier, and the ball will quit hooking earlier.

Increase the RG, and it revs up slower (needs more torque to accelerate the rev rate), match speed later, and quit hooking later.

You can also keep the RG the same, and instead increase the roughness of the surface.

This will cause the ball to begin hooking earlier (rougher senses friction in thicker oil), it will rev up earlier due to more torque from friction, and quit hooking earlier.

Polishing the ball delays the hook, reduces the torque, and makes the hook end later.

The problem with too much polish is the ball doesn't read the mid lane as well, so it won't snug up against the oil line as easily.

That means to hit the same spot down lane, you need to be more accurate.

Also, the less friction doesn't cause the ball to lose axis of rotation as quick, so when the ball reaches the end of the pattern, there is plenty of side roll still in the ball for it to hook more drastically.

You know this as skid / snap.

If you don't put in any revs to begin with, you get skid / die / roll.

So when you go into the pro shop and ask for a ball that skids then snaps, the proper response from the pro shop is, I can give you the skid, but the snap you have to bring yourself.

[Amyers]

Monday League: Older Brunswick synthetics.

617 Series: 217 (clean)-191-209

Sanded the Dark Encounter down to 1000 abralon and hand polished it...just to show Amyers I at least "sort of" listen to him. Granted I didn't bring it to the pro shop to put it on the ball spinner...but I just can't bring my self to pay $25 to do something so basic to a ball I paid $75 for. But I DO plan on investing in my own ball spinner....gonna start looking on Ebay.

Game 1 felt great...the Dark Encounter was hitting very well...just had trouble carrying the 7-pin from time to time...but I resisted the urge to make a ball change.

Game 2 I started off with a flat 10-pin...and missed it...so I needed to do my best to not lose my mental focus...a missed single-pin in the first frame has a tendency to really kill me...but I kept things clean except for a 4-10 split in the 9th frame. Switched to the Loaded Revolver after the first couple frames...probably should have switched earlier...but I'm trying not to switch too early.

Game 3 I felt good...had to make a small adjustment in the 10th with my hand position and target...and it worked well and I salvaged the 209...only open was a 4-7-9 split in the 6th frame.

PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 9.26 pins
Strikes: 50% (1 turkey, 5 doubles, and 4 singles)
Spares: 78% picked up

Single Pin spares: 88% (8/9)
Most common single-pin leaves: 7-pin (3x)
Also left a single 2-pin, 6-pin, 9-pin, and 10-pin.

Multiple Pin spares: 60% (3/5)
Most common multi-pin leave: 4-7 (2x)

Splits: 0% (0/2)

Average over 3 games: 205.67.
Average had I picked up 100% of single pin spare leaves: 209.33.

I think most of my struggles at this house were not only that it's a tougher shot than at the AMF house...and transitions faster due to the age of the lanes...but the pattern really seems more narrow. I can't play the 7-11 track at this house...and I can't use my speed up the outside. I have to play 12-15...not my comfort zone...not as much miss room as the AMF house...but there IS a shot there...I just have to execute better and more consistently.

Took 3 out of 4 points from one of the top teams in the league. Still had to deal with drama between the two youngsters on the team...8 more weeks...8 more weeks. :roll eyes:

Thanks everyone for your help...it's been a rough ride in the new house...but I'm still hanging in there.

Congrats on a nice series Aslan.