If you get a chance, swing by this Sunday. I can watch you bowl a game or two and we can go over what layout changes do what to the ball, and which changes would benefit you.
Help with drilling layout questions
Okay...I've looked around here and there for information...and while I sort of "get it"...it's very confusing.
So I thought I'd get some opinions from you expert ball drillers out there of how you explain it and what you'd recommend.
Attached is a picture of my current ball. Now, for my next ball...obviously my hand hasn't really changed much...but maybe I'm looking for slightly more reaction or different reaction.
So if I come in with that layout (picture) as my starting point (pin seems to be "up" and to the right of the right finger hole, cg seems to be midway between the thumb and finger holes) and the pro asks me about my game and I say this:
"I've had trouble adjusting to synthetic lanes and higher oil. I'm buying a stronger ball to help that (like a Hammer Arson just for the sake of the example) but would also like a "slight tweek" to pin position to help that. I consider myself a stroker that tends to play the standard 10-board/2nd arrow. My ball speed is rather high, 17-20mph...I try to get it lower on synthetics to give the ball time to react but it messes with my natural swing. And for various reasons my rev rate is rather low. I don't know what it is or why it's low...probably because I'm releasing late/higher loft/keeping my thumb in too long, etc..."
So there's the current layout, the brief bio of the player and his style. The player is now looking for a ball that when thrown a bit fast and towards the center more (heavier oil)...will still hook into the pocket. You watch the player throw a few balls and you see that if he plays the 2nd arrow...where he wants to play...the ball is just going too fast and hitting right or the pocket...very little hook.
Now...as a pro...you obviously have ALL KINDS of advice for this player and how he should do this different or that different...but this question is simply about how you'd drill the new ball (Hammer Arson as the example) differently than how the Frantic was drilled to help the player get the reaction he's looking for. Also, if you can, maybe explain "why" you'd drill it that way...because while I'm interested because I will be having a ball drilled in the future...I'm also using this example simply as a learning exercise to better understand layouts/drilling.
Thanks!
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In Bag: (: .) Zen Master Solid; (: .) Perfect Mindset; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 192; Lifetime Average = 172;
Ball Speed: 14.7mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 198
Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!
If you get a chance, swing by this Sunday. I can watch you bowl a game or two and we can go over what layout changes do what to the ball, and which changes would benefit you.
Well..OF COURSE I'm gonna do that!! I just want to hear a few more tri-grip stories so I know for sure thats the way I want to go. But absolutely, I'll be out to see you...new ball in hand...once you have a couple more impressions of the tri-grip.Originally Posted by Mike White
I was just asking as a "general knowledge" thing because I've watched like 3 different videos on drilling patterns and it's like it's in chinese or something...can't make heads or tails.
So I won't be out this Sunday. If you're sold on the tri-grip...I could swing by Saturday AM. I have a poker tournament Saturday afternoon this weekend instead of Sunday morning (my usual time each weekend). But I'm mainly just waiting to see if thats the way I want to go or not. If not, I'll probably still take you up on watching me, recommending a drilling pattern and drilling the ball though...even if it's not the Bill Hall tri-grip.
In Bag: (: .) Zen Master Solid; (: .) Perfect Mindset; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 192; Lifetime Average = 172;
Ball Speed: 14.7mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 198
Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!
The Tri-Grip will take you place you have never dreamed!! Many advantages, if done right! Do IT!! Better ball balance, ball feels lighter, more rev's because the thumb gets out quicker, even better direction of rotation ,,, just a little of the magic you would experience!! Tell Mike, if you like, he can call Bruce Postal if he has any questions at BP Pro Shop here in independence MO. 7
Don't walk on Thin Ice!
I trust the Iceman...I just want Mike to give it a couple more tries...that way he'll have a good feel for how it works and will be better able to recommend a good layout for me.
In Bag: (: .) Zen Master Solid; (: .) Perfect Mindset; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 192; Lifetime Average = 172;
Ball Speed: 14.7mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 198
Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!
With higher ball speed you will want a smaller deill angle to get the ball started earlier on oil. You will also want a strong pin to PAP distance (3.5-4") Your VAL angle determines how fast the ball will respond to friction
I would suggest to first drill a low end ball with the tri-grip to see how it comes off your hand differently.
Your PAP location will most likely change, as may axis tilt, axis rotation, rev rate, and less likely ball speed.
ICE you sound like a religious zealot. The things that you sense as working may not work for others.
The only real difference I felt was the ball hung in a straighter line from shoulder-elbow-wrist-ball.
For me the thumb didn't come out quicker because I already had a quick release thumb via reverse and right pitch.
My reverse/right thumb pitch allowed me to achieve 700+ RPM back when I had a 20-30 year old body.
Smaller "deill angle"? "Strong" pin to PAP? "Val angle"?
For those of us not super-used-to the jargon...on the picture I used as the example...what does that mean in terms of the pin and CG? For example...
From what I've read online...maybe having the pin a little lower and closer to the cg would give me better results (based on sample scenario).
On THIS website, they give a layout for high track, high speed players using something called "dual angle". Their suggested layout would be:
Sample DUAL ANGLE Layouts
High Track Players (with PAP more than 5-¼" over)
Desired Result: Strong Midlane - Heavy Forward Roll
Drilling Angle: 50°
Pin to PAP: 4 in
Angle to the VAL: 35°
Use: Speed dominant players and/or for heavier oil volumes
Recommended Pin Distance: 2 to 5-½ in
Traditional Pin to PAP distance: 4 in
Traditional MB to PAP distance: 4-⅝ in
Traditional Pin to VAL distance: 2 in
I'm assuming "high track" is the 5-10 boards, typical stroker shot? But as you can see...for a person who is a beginner at this stuff....the terminology is a KILLER!
In Bag: (: .) Zen Master Solid; (: .) Perfect Mindset; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 192; Lifetime Average = 172;
Ball Speed: 14.7mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 198
Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!
Sunday! Sunday! Sunday!
Bring your questions and I'll get you understanding all the jargon.
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