The Coolest Fantasy Bowling Tournament EVER!!

[Aslan]

Second Round Results: SOUTH REGION

#14 seed Ryan Shafer scores his second straight 255 game defeating #6 seed Dave Husted 255-241.
#10 seed Mike McGrath pulls off a HUGE upset in round 2 defeating #2 seed Norm Duke 237-225.

#4 seed Nelson Burton Jr. scores his second straight 236 game and defeats #5 seed Wayne Webb 236-205.
#1 seed Walter Ray Williams Jr. continues his domination by knocking off #9 seed David Ozio 268-244.

Sweet 16:
#1 seed Walter Ray Williams Jr. will now face #4 seed Nelson Burton Jr..
#14 seed Ryan Shafer will face #10 seed Mike McGrath.

[Aslan]

Second Round Results: EAST REGION

#12 seed Gary Dickinson continued to score low yet his opponents continued to score lower as he defeated Mike Limongello 205-181. Dickinson after 2 rounds has the lowest pin total of those in the sweet 16 with a 423.
#9 seed Randy Pedersen defeated #16 seed Ryan Ciminelli 255-246.

#14 seed Jason Queen defeated #11 seed Doug Kent 257-218.
#10 seed Bill Allen defeated #15 seed Sean Rash 220-215.

In the Sweet 16;
#9 seed Randy Pedersen will face #12 seed Gary Dickinson.
#14 seed Jason Queen will face #10 seed Bill Allen.

[Aslan]

Second Round Results: MIDWEST REGION

#14 seed Rhino Page threw the first 300 game of the tournament and pounded #10 seed Tom Baker 300-189. Rhino leads the tournament with a 2-game total of 563 pins.
#7 seed Steve Cook upset #2 seed Don Carter 235-224.

#13 seed Mika Koivuniemi missed a perfect game by 1 pin...and pounded #5 seed Carmen Salvino 299-199.
#16 seed Wes Malott continued his cindarella run defeating #8 seed Jim Godman 235-192.

In the Sweet 16;
#16 seed Wes Malott faces #13 seed Mika Koivuniemi.
#14 seed Rhino Page faces #7 seed Steve Cook.

[J Anderson]

I've created something that I think many on the site might find interesting...it's a Fantasy Bowling Tournament based off of 64-person pool of players...the greatest bowlers that ever lived. I then used a formula of sorts to try and come up with a fantasy outcome for each match.

It is a single elimination tournament. The top 50 seeds are straight out of the PBA/ESPN Top 50 bowlers All-Time. The last 14 members were chosen based on various characteristics...but are primarily the best pro bowlers that have not yet (but most likely will eventually) been inducted into the PBA Hall of Fame.

In this fantasy tournament, the greatest from all eras will face off. Their scores will be normalized whenever possible to take into account significant technological changes over time. The old timers will be bowling with their equipment on essentially a THS oil pattern. The newer players will have better bowling balls to work with, but will be bowling on tougher, modern PBA sport patterns.

I had a lot of fun putting this together, so I hope you enjoy it. I got to watch video on just about every one of these guys in order to figure out match winners...and WOW...some really cool footage. I especially grew fond of Dave Ferraro who I think (so far) has a swing closest to mine.

Now...I'm going to list each of the 4 regions and their seedings. Afterwards, after comments (hopefully), I'll enter 1st round results. I have like 5 more match-ups to score.

Please don't comment until I've posted all 4 regions (in case anyone is up late).

I'm just not getting the premise of a fantasy bowling tournament. I 'm not in any fantasy football leagues but I think I understand the idea is that you draft currently active NFL players for your team and use their stats to determine game results. Considering the number of bowlers in your tournament who are dead or retired you can't be using current stats, so how do you figure out that the late Don Johnson would defeat Michael Fagan?

Don't take this as personal criticism, I'm just mad that what ever system you devised knocked out Dick Weber, Earl Anthony, Mike Aulby, Parker Bohn III, Johnny Petraglia, Danny Wiseman, and Brian Voss in the first round.

[Aslan]

Don't take this as personal criticism, I'm just mad that what ever system you devised knocked out Dick Weber, Earl Anthony, Mike Aulby, Parker Bohn III, Johnny Petraglia, Danny Wiseman, and Brian Voss in the first round.

Believe me! I don't take it personal at all...and I SHARE your frustration! I mean, one of my favorite bowlers (Earl Anthony), and argueably the best bowler ever, was knocked out in round 1! And I'm sure our 2-handed guys weren't happy that their hero Jason Belmonte drew Norm Duke in Round 1 and got knocked out.

The method, in a nutshell, is to use head-to-head data whenever possible. If it is not...the system uses data from where they may have played bowlers that they have in common. For example, while Carter may have never played Queen, perhaps both of them played Walter Ray. It then uses tournament data where they played in the same tournament. After that...it uses random data from various matches.

The interesting part of this tournament as it applies to bowling...is two-fold:

1) Modern bowlers score higher. Older bowlers are at a disadvantage. So a guy like Don Carter or Earl Anthony or Dick Weber...if they were alive today and faced a Sean Rash, Jason Belmonte, Norm Duke...they would likely struggle a great deal. They might be more "consistent"...but back in the late 60s it was very common to see games with scores like 212-182. Nowadays, that would be a very uncommonly low scoring match...even on tougher oil patterns. Nowadays guys are rolling 245-255 regularly.

This is important because since this is "fantasy"...it's using information from various time periods...where averages varied.

So for older bowlers...their advantage is consistency. A newer bowler seems to always have the greater ability to score high in any given match...BUT...the older bowlers would be more consistent...so they have to catch a new bowler on his "off game".

2) Bowling is interesting...and I think rather unique....in that on ANY GIVEN night...an amateur can beat a pro. I could theoretically beat Sean Rash in a game tomorrow. Unlikely...very, very unlikely. But most sports...it would be "impossible". Am I more likely to beat Sean Rash 224-220? Or beat Pete Sampras in a tennis match? Or beat Tiger Woods in a round of golf (I'm like a +40-45 handicap)? Or beat Shaq in a one-on-one pick-up basketball game?

Where this come into play in a single elimination tournament like this one is...it's much, much more random. In March Madness...a #1 seed has never lost...ever. Because it's more difficult for some little school with an average record...to knock off a huge powerhouse...even in a one-game format. But in bowling...an amateur is MUCH more likely to beat a pro. NOT LIKELY...but much MORE likely.

So..in summary...as a traditionalist...I share your frustration(s). But, it has been an interesting exercise and really shown how the game has evolved. As much as I hate to say it...I think some of the classic bowlers of yesteryear would maybe not even make the tour nowadays. Maybe they would...maybe with stronger equipment of today...they'd be even better. But it's hard to calcutate what that would look like.

I'm just having fun watching a lot of different guys bowl! I'm developing a new "fan appreciation" for guys I never even heard of!

[Aslan]

And all is not lost for us traditionalists John A. Look at the WEST REGION...seeds pretty much stayed true...and it's pretty much all old timers that have survived. But...a lower scoring region...and a region with more old timers and less flashy new high-game style players.

[fungui]

Very interesting stuff, did you use an application to run the numbers?

[Aslan]

Very interesting stuff, did you use an application to run the numbers?

No application. Just a hierarchy and a spreadsheet.

Working on the Sweet 16 now, still have 3 of the 4 divisions to finish.

[Mike White]

2) Bowling is interesting...and I think rather unique....in that on ANY GIVEN night...an amateur can beat a pro. I could theoretically beat Sean Rash in a game tomorrow. Unlikely...very, very unlikely. But most sports...it would be "impossible". Am I more likely to beat Sean Rash 224-220? Or beat Pete Sampras in a tennis match? Or beat Tiger Woods in a round of golf (I'm like a +40-45 handicap)? Or beat Shaq in a one-on-one pick-up basketball game?

You're thinking of a one game match where it's possible for a pro to shoot anywhere from 100 to 300.

What you are ignoring is in a 42 game format, for that amateur to have the opportunity to face the pro, they would have to:

Advance out of the rabbit squad. Many local pros/amatuers competing for just a handful of spots.

Then in the actual tourney, qualifying consists of 18 games, the amateur would need to be in the top 53 out of 160 just to cash, top 24 to continue.

Then in match play, be in the top 5 to make the show.

After those hurdles are cleared, the amateur would then have the opportunity to face the pro in one game match.

My memory is a little hazy on the format, my assumptions are qualifying rounds was 3 blocks of 6 games, and match play was 3 rounds of 8 games.

[Aslan]

Thats a good point Mike…and also why you don't see many amateurs making TV appearances. The PBA and the big name sponsors want their guys on the TV program…not some pro shop owner or guy off the street. A lot of viewers see that you can get in the PBA with a 190 average and figure that the only reason you see Belmonte, Rash, Page, Weber, Bohn in the finals is because those guys are just so, so, so dominant that nobody can beat them. When actually…the big name pros are given HUGE seeding advantages in tournaments. Most don't have to qualify..so their automatically not worrying about that. And in a stepladder format, they might bowl 12-16 positioning games…but meanwhile the 100s of amateurs are doing exactly what you said…bowling 30-70 games to try to qualify, position, then work their way up the ladder.

I forget what the record is for a stepladder tournament….of the lowest seed to ever make TV or win it.

But…if you had a tournament like this one in this thread…you'd see a LOT of fresh faces making the Final Four on TV. You just have to have 4 good games. But even in this fantasy tournament…I'm sure that only a handful of spots would be available for amateurs….so they'd still be at a huge disadvantage to even make the bracket. But once in…it's anybody's tournament. And the advantage of that is…more MONEY. If the only players that cash would be the final four…instead of bowling on TV for $50,000…you'd be bowling for $100,000-$300,000 each televised game.

The disadvantage…is bowling would become like Poker. Every World Series Final table is different…it's rare to even see a big name pro at the final table. I mean, in poker…a guy starts out in a field of thousands…the pros usually map it pretty far and cash and make money…but to get to that final table of 9…is a tough, tough thing and takes more than skill. I've played poker for years (not World Series level) and in tournaments have only made the final table 4 times.