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Thread: The Coolest Fantasy Bowling Tournament EVER!!

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    Thats a good point Mike…and also why you don't see many amateurs making TV appearances. The PBA and the big name sponsors want their guys on the TV program…not some pro shop owner or guy off the street. A lot of viewers see that you can get in the PBA with a 190 average and figure that the only reason you see Belmonte, Rash, Page, Weber, Bohn in the finals is because those guys are just so, so, so dominant that nobody can beat them. When actually…the big name pros are given HUGE seeding advantages in tournaments. Most don't have to qualify..so their automatically not worrying about that. And in a stepladder format, they might bowl 12-16 positioning games…but meanwhile the 100s of amateurs are doing exactly what you said…bowling 30-70 games to try to qualify, position, then work their way up the ladder.

    I forget what the record is for a stepladder tournament….of the lowest seed to ever make TV or win it.
    Bowling is not like tennis where the seeding for match play is determined by the players ranking going into the tournament. The seeding is determined by the 18 games of qualifying. There are very few Tournaments where big name players are automatically qualified for the 24 game elimination round.

    For the stepladder format I'm pretty sure that a number of bowlers made the run from fifth qualifier to take hame the big check and trophy. Being a fan of Walter Ray and Earl you should be aware that being a top seed in the stepladder is no guarantee of winning. Many a tournament was dominated in qualifying and match play by either Earl or Walter Ray only to see them lose in the final against a second or third seed who came into the match with momentum. I'm not sure what the exact number is but I would guess that the top seed in a stepladder final has only a 40% chance of winning.
    John

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Anderson View Post
    Bowling is not like tennis where the seeding for match play is determined by the players ranking going into the tournament. The seeding is determined by the 18 games of qualifying. There are very few Tournaments where big name players are automatically qualified for the 24 game elimination round.
    I'm not sure, but I think you're wrong about this. I believe PBA pros with a certain number of years and/or major championships get preferential placement. Like Mike mentioned, true amateurs have to bowl many more games to pre-qualify, then qualify, then bowl in the actual qualification. Established pros skip much of that.

    If that "wasn't" the case…you'd see results like this tournament…where no-name bowlers would get hot and beat out pros having off games. Especially with how the equipment has changed the game. You can have a guy get hot over a 12-game span and suddenly "Joe Blow" is the top seed for the TV round and Norm Duke doesn't qualify. Viewers don't want to see "Joe Blow"…they wanna see Norm Duke.

    Unlike tennis…in bowling ANY bowler on ANY night can beat a pro. Maybe not over a 3-12 game series…but yeah…1-9 games…a good bowler having a good night could pull it off. Thats not the case in tennis or any other sport. I may play the best tennis game of my life…but Pete Sampras will beat me 6-1. It won't even be close. If I pick up one game of the match, it's because I made a couple great serves AND Sampras fell down a couple times or his racket strings broke or something.
    In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Radical Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
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    Ball Speed: 14.4mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    I'm not sure, but I think you're wrong about this. I believe PBA pros with a certain number of years and/or major championships get preferential placement. Like Mike mentioned, true amateurs have to bowl many more games to pre-qualify, then qualify, then bowl in the actual qualification. Established pros skip much of that.

    If that "wasn't" the case…you'd see results like this tournament…where no-name bowlers would get hot and beat out pros having off games. Especially with how the equipment has changed the game. You can have a guy get hot over a 12-game span and suddenly "Joe Blow" is the top seed for the TV round and Norm Duke doesn't qualify. Viewers don't want to see "Joe Blow"…they wanna see Norm Duke.

    Unlike tennis…in bowling ANY bowler on ANY night can beat a pro. Maybe not over a 3-12 game series…but yeah…1-9 games…a good bowler having a good night could pull it off. Thats not the case in tennis or any other sport. I may play the best tennis game of my life…but Pete Sampras will beat me 6-1. It won't even be close. If I pick up one game of the match, it's because I made a couple great serves AND Sampras fell down a couple times or his racket strings broke or something.
    The modern style of PBA tournaments (at least the WSOB) limits the field to 240 people, then cuts to 24 after just 7 games… Then they bowl another 7 games to determine the top 4 for the show.
    I might have the exact numbers off, but the idea is the same.

    The 42 game format may be a thing of the past. I don't know.
    But Earl Anthony used to regularly lead qualifying/match play by 400+ pins over 2nd place, then be a flip of the coin on TV.
    I believe he had 42 titles, and at least 40 second place finishes.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike White View Post
    The modern style of PBA tournaments (at least the WSOB) limits the field to 240 people, then cuts to 24 after just 7 games… Then they bowl another 7 games to determine the top 4 for the show.
    I might have the exact numbers off, but the idea is the same.
    After doing some research, I found that up until this year or last year...the PBA was doing what was called an "exempt tour" and like I theorized...the tour consists of 64 bowlers...58 (roughly) of whom were exempt from having to qualify for those exempt tour events. That left roughly 4-6 spots for the rest of the PBA card carriers. And actually even less because the commishioner would often choose 1-2 past pros to put in the tournament.

    So like Mike said, they would run a large qualification (100+ bowlers) of amateurs and non-exempt pros and those bowlers that finished top 4-6 would get entered into either the qualification round of the tournament or the seeding round for a stepladder tournament.

    This is why you tend to see the same bowlers at every tournament. A "regular Joe" would have a 4% chance of making the seeding/qualification round, then a 7% chance of making the TV finals. So for an exempt pro...he's got a 7% chance of making TV. For a non-exempt bowler, they would have a 0.3% chance.

    Now, I guess they've gotten rid of the "exempt bowler" idea for 2013-2014...except for TOC and the Japan Cup. So it'll be interesting to see if there's a big influx of lesser known bowlers into the spotlight or not. I think they still will "nudge" the formats towards the big name guys getting preferential treatment because other wise the big name bowling companies aren't going to want to pay big salaries to sponsor these folks. Norm Duke, Pete Weber, and Walter Ray probably command high dollars from their respective bowling sponsors...yet if these 3 guys rarely ever make a TV final....I gotta think even their sponosors would offer less or nothing at all at some point. And then you have to have the discussion about whats best for the sport overall. Is it better to have a couple dozen well-known players with sponsorships bowling every weekend? Or is it better to have a format where anyone has a chance at glory...but the sponsorships just arent there to make it very lucrative?

    Pro bowling is a tough business. Like poker...these guys can't rely on "contracts". If they have a rough 4-5 months...they make no money yet are spending money to join and compete in tournaments. A sponsorship offsets some of those costs...but you still are looking at travel expenses which are considerable when you're paying to fly yourself all over the country each week. What does an elite bowler...player of the year calibre make in a year? $700,000?? What does the 10th best bowler make? $160,000?
    In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Radical Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 186; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 14.4mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  5. #25
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    Sweet 16 Results!

    WEST REGION
    #1 Seed Pete Weber defeats #5 Seed Dave Soutar 207-193
    #3 Seed Billy Hardwick defeats #7 Seed Harry Smith 220-206

    SOUTH REGION
    #4 Seed Nelson Burton Jr. defeats #1 Seed Walter Ray Williams Jr. 278-240
    #10 Seed Mike McGrath defeats #14 Seed Ryan Shafer 258-191

    MIDWEST REGION
    #13 Seed Mika Koivuniemi defeats #16 Seed Wes Malott 225-193
    #14 Seed Rhino Page defeats #7 Seed Steve Cook 268-190

    EAST REGION
    #12 Seed Gary Dickinson defeats #9 Seed Randy Pedersen 209-188
    #10 Seed Bill Allen defeats #14 Seed Jason Queen 214-213
    In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Radical Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 186; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 14.4mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  6. #26
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    ELITE EIGHT MATCH-UPS:

    MIDWEST REGION
    #13 seed Mika Koivuniemi faces #14 seed Rhino Page in a battle of the two highest scoring bowlers of the tournament. One Cindarella story must end.

    WEST REGION
    The last remaining #1 seed, Pete Weber will face #3 seed Billy Hardwick

    EAST REGION
    #12 seed Gary Dickinson has limped his way into the ELITE EIGHT with the lowest series of any bowler that played 3 games and will need to either raise his pin fall total or hope #10 seed Bill Allen can have an off game.

    SOUTH REGION
    #4 seed Nelson Burton Jr. is fresh off the best score of the Sweet 16 (278) and an emotional win over favorite Walter Ray Williams and will need that momentum as he faces #10 seed Mike McGrath.

    Thus far, of all the players that made it to the Sweet 16 (and thus bowled 3 matches); the Series List is (* denotes players still alive in the tournament):

    - Rhino Page*, 831
    - Mika Koivuniemi*, 788
    - Nelson Burton Jr.*, 750
    - Walter Ray Williams Jr., 746
    - Jason Queen, 736
    - Mike McGrath*, 711
    - Randy Pedersen, 697
    - Wes Malott, 696
    - Billy Hardwick*, 670
    - Bill Allen*, 666
    - Pete Weber*, 661
    - Steve Cook, 650
    - Ryan Shafer, 650
    - Harry Smith, 649
    - Dave Soutar, 645
    - Gary Dickinson*, 632
    In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Radical Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 186; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 14.4mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  7. #27
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    ELITE EIGHT RESULTS:

    EAST REGION:
    #12 seed Gary Dickinson's lucky streak comes to an end as he is defeated by #10 seed Bill Allen 215-199.

    SOUTH REGION:
    #4 seed Nelson "Bo" Burton Jr. rolled his 3rd (of 4 games) 236 game and defeated #10 seed Mike McGrath 236-220.

    WEST REGION:
    #1 seed Pete Weber continued to pull out close victories as the last remaining #1 seed defeated #3 seed Billy Hardwick 203-198.

    MIDWEST REGION:
    In the battle of the two top scoring bowlers thus far in the tournament, #14 seed Rhino Page finally had an "off" game and fell to #13 seed Mika Koivuniemi 225-213.

    FINAL FOUR:

    #13 seed from the MIDWEST REGION Mika Koivuniemi will face the top seed from the WEST REGION Pete Weber.

    #4 seed from the SOUTH REGION Nelson Burton Jr. will face the #10 seed from the EAST REGION Bill Allen.
    In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Radical Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 186; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 14.4mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  8. #28
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    FINAL FOUR RESULTS:

    Pete Weber defeats Mika Koivuniemi 233-220.

    Nelson "Bo" Burton Jr. defeats Bill Allen 221-201.

    PDW now faces "Bo" Burton for the championship!!!

  9. #29
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    And the final game is a close one…

    …as Pete Weber defeats Nelson Burton Jr. 216-215 to win the 1st Annual/Ever Coolest Bowling Tournament Ever!!!

    Not a big PDW fan myself…so woulda preferred a Walter Ray or Parker Bohn…but…it is what it is. He IS Pete Weber!

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