Gravity swing can increase your scores......

[Mudpuppy]

Interesting thread. I am pretty sure I use a combination of gravity and muscling the ball if I understand correctly. I find golf and bowling similar although I don't golf that much but in terms of back swing I kind of like gravity do it's thing - I find a hard jerky backswing ruins the shot. Instead I go for a gravity fed smooth backswing and then start the shot with gravity and at a certain point 1/4-1/2 way through the swing I add a little muscle. I find in bowling I can pretty consistently control the speed of the ball this way. But also I try not to think about too much when I bowl - when I do it starts having the reverse effect. If I am focused on steps and backswing I lose focus of the placement of the shot or the speed or something else critical. I try to be 100% consistent in all things making them second nature or habit (like steps, backswing, etc.) and I focus on where I aim the ball and follow through of the shot. Those 2 things seem the most important to me and seem to make the most difference. But there is always room for improvement and you never stop learning. It's similar to me when I do a trackday on the bike. I go through the bike bolt by bolt, tire pressure has to be exact, chain tension perfect, etc. Then I don't even consider these things at 160mph when I am about to go into a hairpin turn really hot. I am not thinking I wonder if the tires will stick, etc. I am focused on the best line, braking pre-corner and throttle control through the corner. I guess what I am saying is I try to eliminate the things that I don't need to think about to focus on what I feel is important.

[Aslan]

I am pretty sure I use a combination of gravity and muscling the ball if I understand correctly.

I think most people do. All you have to do is watch a youtube video of any pro bowler and you'll see as they approach the foul line...the ball speeds up so they can release it near their front leg and not go over the foul line.

The two things I look for that tell me it's NOT a true pendulum, pure gravity swing is:
1) Does the backswing go higher than the initial ball position? If it does, which it will for most pro bowlers...it can't be simply gravity/pendulum...because the increase in speed due to gravity's effect on the ball will be almost equally cancelled out as the effect of that same gravity works against it on the backswing. Push a person on a swing set...give them one push...and see if they go higher coming back (without trying) than going forward. It's physically impossible. Therefore, a backswing higher than the initial ball point means the bowlers is ADDING energy to his/her backswing.
2) Watch pros as they start into their final step...the ball is still quite a ways back..just starting it's downswing...you can see it "speed up" as they get their sliding foot close to the foul line. A true pendulum swing wouldn't need chest rotation. The shoulders could stay perfectly straight....just pendulum the ball at the shoulder...and the only speed increase would be how fast you approach...but you'd have to approach at the same speed...because otherwise the timing would be off.

There was a pro bowler in the 80s...can't remember who...but he started his approach with his ball hanging down at his side in one hand. He then pushed his arm straight forward...it would go back (like a pendulum)...and then forward again using gravity. That was the closest thing I've ever seen to a "true pendulum swing".

I think most bowlers use "muscles" in their forward and back swings. It's just not noticeable because MOST of the swing is due to the ball weight and gravity. You couldn't throw a bowling ball without the pendulum effect...it's too heavy. You'd have a blown rotator cuff in a matter of months. And...your shoulders could never stay paralell to the foul line...it'd be impossible to stop your ball side shoulder from going forward just due to the momentum. But to say it's not at all part of the proper swing...then your approach timing would have to be "perfect" to get that ball at that release point the same each time. I think swings are very individualized...no 2 are exactly the same. And like you said...trying to totally tear that apart...you end up getting totally out of whack.

I tried switching to a 3-step approach...a really short approach...I tried releasing way earlier...I tried a really super-short backswing....it's tough. I guess over time you could get used to it...but wow...it felt SO weird to start my approach that close to the foul line.

[bowl1820]

[J Anderson]

J Anderson
Just a quick question Aslan, How many steps do you take?

4

Darn, I thought you might say three. Many bowlers who only take three steps stop their backswing before it reaches its peak because they, at some level of consciousness know there is not enough time in a three step approach for a full swing to be completed. This would have explained perfectly why not muscling the ball doesn't work for you

[Aslan]

Darn, I thought you might say three. Many bowlers who only take three steps stop their backswing before it reaches its peak because they, at some level of consciousness know there is not enough time in a three step approach for a full swing to be completed. This would have explained perfectly why not muscling the ball doesn't work for you

Nope. I've never figured out 3 or 5. It just feels really strange to make that first step with my left foot while moving my right arm....like rubbing your stomach and your head...just feels "off".

[bowl1820]

Heres a link:
Coaches' Corner SUSIE MINSHEW on the swing
http://www.bowlersparadise.com/artic.../swingin.shtml


Excerpt:
PENDULUM COMMENTS

The acceleration of the downswing is what helps the ball move up into your hand as you prepare to release the ball. After all, in a four-step approach, it takes three steps to get to the top of the backswing and only one to move the ball into position to release it. Therefore, the downswing must be faster, right? There are many bowlers who think this means they should grab the ball at the top of the backswing and heave ho! NOT!! Gravity supplies substantial downswing momentum and it's quite destructive to try to force more swing speed.

If rotation and extension were not important at the release point, everyone would have an armswing like a whip. That is not, however, a dominant style in bowling because it doesn't work. Power from swing speed works well in golf but not in bowling. The bowling delivery must provide the opportunity for leverage to be produced at the release. That can't happen with a warp speed armswing produced by muscle involvement. A bowling ball is quite heavy. If you drag it back and drag it forward fighting gravity and kinetic energy, manufacturing swing direction and speed with muscle, your delivery will be ineffective, inconsistent, and tiring - a 206 one game and a 141 the next.



Read this also:
Click this for How High Can A Free Swing Go? by Ron Clifton


Here's a quote I like also.
"Back swing height is irrelevant as long as there is no muscle required to get it up there, or keep it from going up there. If you just let your arm swing, you'll find your arm swing is as high as it needs to be and no more."




Bill Hall
Swing height is really based on the player’s
ability to repeat that height. The main thing is
that the height of the swing reaches its peak at
the proper time and that the bowler achieves
that swing length/height with a flowing motion
instead of manipulating the swing to
reach an artificial peak.
The proper time for the peak of the swing is
when the weight of the body is completely on
the leg during the next-to-last step (whether
four or five steps) and the toe of the third step
(five-step delivery) is the only part of the foot
touching the approach.
Most quality players are able to reach a peak
or height of a swing with little to no effort. The
swings that are manipulated to reach a length/
height are the swings that, in my opinion, are
much harder for a player to count on day to
day, with most manipulated swings involving
pulling the ball back and up to create the
height. This type of manipulation usually
creates an inconsistent release at the bottom
of the swing causing the bowler to either drop
the ball or release the ball too far out in front
of them.

[Eternal Bowler]

Nope. I've never figured out 3 or 5. It just feels really strange to make that first step with my left foot while moving my right arm....like rubbing your stomach and your head...just feels "off".

Solution: Try a 4-step approach.

Also, with a 5-step approach, you don't move the ball on your first step; you wait until your second step. I learned that after making the same mistake.

[Aslan]

causing the bowler to either drop
the ball or release the ball too far out in front
of them.[/B]

HEY!! I resemble that remark!

Is Bill Hall watching me bowl?? Erie....

So, bowl1820...if you push a ball forward lets say chest level on step 1....and gravity and the weight of the ball cause it to arc in a pendulum motion....it PHYSICALLY CANNOT go higher than chest level on the backswing. Am I correct in that statement from your point of view? Simple momentum/Force physics....the weight of the ball and gravity act to push it toward the floor...the kinimatics causes it to have momentum as it goes into backswing phase...and then gravity and the weight of the ball works against that momentum...then the ball comes back down.

Simple test....I'm at work so I can't try it right now....but somebody take their bowling ball....stand on approach....do the usual push out and let the ball fall....use NO MUSCLES to push it back...just let it swing...I can GUARANTEE it won't go back farther than where it started. Physically impossible.

BUT!! BUT!!...Tonight is my practice night and I'm gonna take some of these comments to heart...see if I can maybe reduce some of that "muscling" of the forward swing. I may need to generate a slightler higher backswing...and i'll have to slow my approach or the ball will definitely be late...but I'll keep this stuff in mind and see what happens.

[Zaxmazr]

It's good to know I've had the correct approach all along

[noeymc]

you should lean foward thats how u get a high back swing please go see a coach