Holding the ball for maximum hook
For the last two months or so I've been having trouble creating a consistent hook with my ball, often times it rotates but continues straight through the pins without reacting on the backend.
Now, I've been operating under the assumption that I should keep my hand under the ball and behind the ball (as if I was going to throw the ball straight) until the moment of release when I rotate the fingers, etc. to put a hook on the ball.
Well, last night I was practicing with a friend of mine who is brand new and he was bowling with a lot of hook (albeit uncontrollable at the moment) and he was starting with his hand more on the side of the ball rather than behind. He asked about putting the hand behind the ball and I mentioned that I had been doing that, and when he did his ball had the same non-reaction as mine.
So, after doing some youtubing I came across this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbUb8x3myx8
This guy is saying if you want to hook the ball you should start with your hand on the side somewhat, is that correct? I might have been misunderstanding this simple point all along, so I thought I'd ask around - it seems for every pointer I can find online, I can find somebody who advises the complete opposite which to me seems to be the most frustrating thing about trying to learn this game LOL. Then again, I could be completely wrong and just never realized it until now
I made a post yesterday about this EXACT same thing. I've got to get back to work but it should be easy to find. My quick response is that if the hand is fully on the side it's not good, but giving the hand somewhat of a head start by being partially on the side can be very good. Most of the pros don't do that but a great many of them are freaks of nature and do things most bowlers can't.
Ball speed: 17 - 18.5 mph Rev rate: 400ish
PAP 6 1/8" over 1/4" up
13° axis tilt / 30°-60° axis rotation
Thumbless bowler
High game: 300 High series: 804 High average: 217
Ya got me man.
I learned that you keep your hand behind the ball until that exact moment you release and then you shoot your hand up the side of the ball as/after your thumb exits. The problem is...I can't figure out how to do that without muscling and lofting it....because if you're "trying"to get that snap release and higher revs...and you don't get that hand completely up the side (still a bit behind the ball)...that effort is going to push/throw the ball.
I also saw a more advanced video on adding more revs/hook where they talk about starting out with a more open position on your backswing...where instead of the ball being cupped in front of your hand on the backswing...its facing out away from you or your is actually turned completely around as if you're reaching back with your palm up. This is "supposed to" generate more revs because rather than the hand going from the bottom of the ball to the side (90 degrees)...your hand is going almost side to side (180 degrees) or from upside down to the side (270 degrees). That being said...I tried it and it felt so weird that the ball was going off in every direction...even more than usual! It's hard enough to hit your mark consistently just rolling the ball....when ya start adding a snapped wrist or some 270 degree wrist spin...it gets even mroe difficult...for ME anyways.
I've found that I have to concentrate on it. If I don't remind myself to snap the wrist...I end up releasing a lot of shots where my hand barely gets over to the side and there's virtually no hook...even at a lower speed. I'll still usually hit the headpin...but if it's a REAL lazy release I'll sometimes miss and hit the 3-pin which tends to leave me a 1-2-4-7-10 split as the ball cuts straight through the right side.
Keep me updated...I'm working on the same problem.
Ah the internet...it must be true, I saw it on the internet!
Seriously there are a lot of ways to make the ball hook. The guy in the clip you posted is describing the simplest way to make the ball hook, which for many recreational bowlers is as much as they'll ever need since they either won't want, or be able to practice enough to master a more complicated technique. This is what Fred Borden used to call the money shot because the thumb is pointed at the hip pocket where most guys keep their wallet. In fact you should listen to Fred explain it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGIyYa5egu8
It's pretty old school. It won't give you anywhere near the hook that the pros get but it does give you a shot that's easy to repeat and control, and that gives you a better angle to the pocket than going straight.
John
This topic also tends to lead to many thumbless and 2-handed players. I have to admit...on the days where getting the ball to hook has seemed impossible...I can't deny I've taken a house ball and tried to 2-hand it or palm it. It "seems" like an easy way around the problem. Then I do it 1-2 times....knock down a total of 1 pin...and go back to the drawing board.
Best thing you can do for more ball motion is to play the inside of the ball as seen here at 6:00:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N5nnDbV0znE
Yeah, I think I have to go back to the coach and have him do nothing but analyze what I'm doing when I release the ball I guess.Originally Posted by dnhoffman
I wish I knew what I was doing when I first started because I could get the ball to hook like crazy, now I'm getting closer to two months straight where I can barely get a hook on my best throws, but most of them it revs and revs and revs and never breaks at all. The senior leagues bowl around lunchtime at my alley, and while I was there today there was an old timer next to me who was watching me for about half a game...He looked at me and said "Why doesn't your ball break at all?", I looked at him and said "I was hoping you could tell me that".
To make matters worse I'm starting to damage my wrist trying anything and everything to force the ball to hook - I've now got pain on the right and left side where the ligaments are, which tells me I'm just not doing something right.
My first month of bowling, my form was downright abysmal (which I'm sure is true for most first timers) but my hook was great and my scores went up every week. Then one day after my first lesson, while practicing I noticed I could no longer hook the ball, and while I've worked hard (practicing 6 days a week and league 1 day a week now) fixing a lot of things with my form I still cannot hook the ball reliably at the lane I bowl my league.
Also a buddy of mine just moved to San Diego and we had somebody drop off our team so he took their place. He's a complete beginner so he bought a new ball, and with terrible form (although he's working on it) and a few instructions from me he can now hook the ball like crazy. I watch folks that can barely walk up to the foul line sort of drop their ball in a forward motion and they hook. It just leaves me shaking my head as to what happened to me...I'm at a complete loss
Oh well, this post was mostly me just venting hopefully my coach will know what to make of it because bowling has now become more of a chore than anything else at this point
Well it's either the lane, the ball, or you.
You can eliminate the lane.
De-oil the ball ever? If it's not dead-ball syndrome due to oil absorption - then it's YOUR. And if it's you, then there's about a 90% chance you're squeezing and spinning the ball,
I did de-oil the ball somewhat using the hot water bucket/soap method, not sure how much that helped. Its a used ball, so while I have no idea how many games were on it before I bought it, at this point I've put about 200 games myself. At some point I'll probably build a DIY rejuvenator based on that thread regarding the dehydrator (I think you created it if I'm not mistaken).
I wish there was an easy way to test a new ball without buying one, but obviously nobody I know has a ball drilled to fit my fingers. I did get the thumb plugged and redrilled, and I've started using tape so I think I can safely rule out too much space in the thumbhole (unless my proshop guys really don't know what they're doing, but the regulars seem to like them so I find that unlikely).
So yeah, I'm gonna meet with the coach and make absolutely certain he can't detect something wrong that I'm doing, and if he still insists things look good it might be time to shop for a new ball I guess.
I'd bet dollars to donuts you're squeezing the ball. Does the inside of your thumb hurt?
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