Language of the Pins:

[Aslan]

Let's look at tires (ball coverstocks are often compared to tires) you have tires for wet roads, dry roads, roads with ice, dirt roads, off road, racing slicks, tires for different temperatures etc. etc.

Why do they make so many different ones? To match up to conditions to get the optimum performance.

Using your reasoning a skilled NASCAR or Formula One driver wouldn't need special tires he could just put some on from walmarts and he wouldn't need to change them during the race, he would just change speed and drive on a different part of the track.

To be fair...thats "taking it to an extreme" (Formula 1 racing) in a manner WAY more than I EVER have!

You wanna talk tires? How many people buy snow tires? How many switch their tires from snow to regular over the course of a year? Now...lets say...high, high, high end estimate...in the US (not Canada)...13%. Mostly extreme North. Of those...how many have different tires for fall, spring, and summer? Virtually ZERO. Maybe 0.2% super high estimate.

Why? Because most "All-Season radials" work FINE....FINE. There's really NO NEED to own 4 different tires.

By that arguement...you're making my case FOR ME! (thanks) Just as many people that need a tire for every season (Fall, Winter, Spring, Summer) need more than 1-4 bowling balls. I'm NOT saying there isn't a "need". But like you said, it's a need for those elite players that play in tournaments and in a different center every other week. Guys that play in ONE center 97% of the time...and are too scared to play sport shots or tournaments yet for some reason feel they need a 9-ball roller...it's just dumb. More power to em if they're a "collector" (like me). But this concept that "if you miss the pocket, you need a different ball" is ABSURD. And you know that. You and I are actually AGREEING here. Ball changes should be something you do if you just can't get your ball to hit the pocket the right way. Or maybe, your ball is too strong...you've moved all the way left...time for a different ball. I GET that. But I've seen low level intermediate or advanced beginners make 2-3 ball changes on a THS over the course of ONE SERIES....for NO reason other than they can't seem to hit the pocket....because they can't consistently hit their mark. Thats just bad technique.

Take me for example...so not to get "extreme". Lets say I want to use my Rhythm on low oil or wood lanes. Lets say the Frantic broke in half or something (Noooo!). Now...lets say I'm struggling to keep it right of the headpin. Rob Mautner would say, "You can't out bowl a bad ball reaction." But...I CAN! I release slightly later...the ball lofts over the heads...hits the pocket. Same example...except with the Frantic on Heavy oil. Lets say the Rhythm is broke in half (Nooooo!) and I gotta use the Frantic on heavy oil. I struggle getting the Frantic to cut into the pocket. Rob Maunter..."Can't out bowl a bad ball reaction."

Now...in THIS case....I'm more inclined to agree. It's a low-moderate oil ball and I'm using it essentially for something it's not designed for. But...for the sake of the discussion...CAN I make it work? Yup. I slow it down from 17mph to 14mph...play 2 boards inside of my usual target...it hits the pocket. Not "ideal"...a straighter shot so I'm possibly going to have to deal with splits...lose a little margin for error...but I CAN out bowl a bad ball reaction. And if I CAN...and I suck...then all you great/excellent/semi pros should be able to EASILY out bowl a bad ball reaction.

I'm not trying to be argumentative...I think it's a very interesting topic/conversation. I'm just speaking from MY experience(s) where I HAVE out bowled a bad ball reaction. So it's not impossible. And the PBA pros have shown that when they go out there with plastic balls and can out bowl most of us. Or when they make slight adjustments to their swing/footwork rather than switching balls.

I AGREE...there is a need nowadays for more than one ball. I don't LIKE it...but my time machine isn't ready yet...so I'll deal with it. But I feel that NEED was created by balls that hook more...thus making them not as useable (if thats a word) on all lane conditions. So, in that regard...the ball companies kinda created the need. Just like a tire company that sells super smooth tires and knobby tires...will CREATE THE NEED to have both.

In the words of Walter Sobchak: "Am I wrong? AM I wrong?"

[bowl1820]

To be fair...thats "taking it to an extreme" (Formula 1 racing) in a manner WAY more than I EVER have!

And of course you missed the entire point of the comparison about matching to the conditions to improve performance.

Your "All-Season radials" comparison is fine for conditions that don't vary too radically and you don't mind just average or sub standard performance when it gets tough.

In bowling that's the bowler who only bowls in one house and goes to the nationals and can't understand why his ball doesn't work, because he thinks that one ball would work everywhere on any condition.

Ball changes should be something you do if you just can't get your ball to hit the pocket the right way.

That's true enough, something is not working and you can't get your ball to hit the pocket the right way you make a change.

But I've seen low level intermediate or advanced beginners make 2-3 ball changes on a THS over the course of ONE SERIES....for NO reason other than they can't seem to hit the pocket....because they can't consistently hit their mark. Thats just bad technique.

True enough, I've seen that myself.

A big part of it is bad technique, they need to work on the fundamentals and practice more.

Also another big problem is they don't know their equipment and when and how to utilize it correctly.

But that doesn't make the basic premise of making a adjustments with a ball change invalid.

Now...in THIS case....I'm more inclined to agree. It's a low-moderate oil ball and I'm using it essentially for something it's not designed for. But...for the sake of the discussion...CAN I make it work? Yup. I slow it down from 17mph to 14mph...play 2 boards inside of my usual target...it hits the pocket. Not "ideal"...a straighter shot so I'm possibly going to have to deal with splits...lose a little margin for error...but I CAN out bowl a bad ball reaction. And if I CAN...and I suck...then all you great/excellent/semi pros should be able to EASILY out bowl a bad ball reaction.

"Not "ideal"...a straighter shot so I'm possibly going to have to deal with splits...lose a little margin for error...but I CAN out bowl a bad ball reaction."

Just how did you out bowl a bad reaction?

You moved, changed speeds in the first place because your leaving splits, corner pins, missing the headpin whatever. If your still leaving splits, corner pins, washouts whatever after doing that, then you haven't out bowled anything.

Just because someone can move and change release, speed and can get a ball to hit the pocket, doesn't mean you out bowled a bad reaction if it hasn't improved anything..

But after all is said and done, if using just one ball and moving works for you fine do it.

here read this one again.
http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads...by-Rob-Mautner

[vdubtx]

True enough, I've seen that myself.

A big part of it is bad technique, they need to work on the fundamentals and practice more.

Also another big problem is they don't know their equipment and when and how to utilize it correctly.

But that doesn't make the basic premise of making a adjustments with a ball change invalid.

Totally agree here. Last Thursday I was battling bad ball reaction in game 3 after shooting 267-246 in games 1&2. Started with same ball I used in those games and the ball just didn't finish like it was, changed to a bit more aggressive ball which also did not finish the way expected. Finally after 6 frames, I changed to my weaker ball and played outside and finally had good reaction and ran off the next 5 strikes.

Has been quite some time since I had to actually break out 3 different balls in a 3 game set. Typically get by with just 1, 2 at most depending on who else we are bowling that night.

[swingset]

I feel this is all too circumstantial. It depends so much on the bowler, the ball, the lanes, the oil pattern, the center, etc. There is no one right "change" to make. For example, he recommends a ball change in this video, but no reason a bowler couldn't make a variety of changes that would work still using the first ball. Slowing down ball speed or increasing revs are both possible easy fixes to implement in this example, a lot more he can do as well.

Huge +1 to this.

I appreciate what he's trying to do with these videos, but they miss the mark (pun intended). After the first adjustment, ball change, he says 7 shots and the lane is transitioning and leaves a 10. Choose "stay put" (based on his statement that a lane change is occurring) and he informs you that his prior shot was just bad...which it was. So what's he teaching here? First that his choices are false, but second that hitting your breakpoint is often the most crucial step in understanding the lane before attempting ANY adjustment yet he never makes that point to the viewer.

And, his choices are totally subjective.

[dnhoffman]

The amount of self-taught pro bowlers posting here never ceases to amaze.

Don't listen to the guy who made the video, everyone here is obviously a better bowler than Sk8... the Storm staffer....who also works in a pro shop and makes excellent videos on all sorts of bowling related topics. Blow it off, stay under 180 forever, with never a clue why.

[Aslan]

The amount of self-taught pro bowlers posting here never ceases to amaze.

Don't listen to the guy who made the video, everyone here is obviously a better bowler than Sk8... the Storm staffer....who also works in a pro shop and makes excellent videos on all sorts of bowling related topics. Blow it off, stay under 180 forever, with never a clue why.

Even though Hoff can't see my response because I'm on perpetual ignore status…I will say that while I agree with his premise to an extent…bowling has many "experts". And since all of them don't always agree…one must decide at the end of the day which path they want to follow. The PBA Guide to Better Bowling doesn't mention 2-handed bowling once. Yet…some folks have decided to take that approach. I'm sure many many coaches would prefer that a beginner bowler learn a 1-handed approach. Some coaches would prefer to teach 2-handed. Most coaches preach a 4-step approach. Yet many players modify that and use a 5-6-7 step approach.

The point/bottom line my friends is…in bowling, in this day and age where nearly anyone can average 160-190 in less than one year after starting out…EVERYONE is an expert. The guys in the league that roll scores like Iceman…the guy who owns the pro shop and has been bowling for 25 years…your grandpa who once bowled against Bob Strampe…the retired pro that teaches a clinic…and yes, even the multitude of internet experts and ball reps. And unfortunately…that leads to comments like what DHoff had to say…that HIS expert knows more than YOUR expert….and the battle begins.

Thats why I listen to many, many, many experts. I take a little from each. If I hit a wall, I follow a different path. I've never met ONE bowler I agree with 100%. Even one of my 2 favorite bowlers, Parker Bohn…in one of his instructional videos he talks about the importance of a spare ball (in an obvious attempt to sell a Brunswick Vis-a-ball). Does that mean I don't think Parker Bohn is great? HELL NO! That guy is as good as any bowler out there with the exception of Walter Ray. But that doesn't mean I start from square one and learn to bowl left handed because Parker Bohn bowls left handed.

In bowling….there is more than one yellow brick road leading to the Emerald City. Take the road that best suits you…and don't be too proud to turn around and take another if need be.

[dpatrickv]

I drive a RWD sports car that I drive year around. I have tires specifically for warm weather and then use snow tires in the winter.


Would all seasons work? Sure...but not nearly as well as dedicated summer/winter tires. I have owned snow tires for every one of my vehicles for the last 10 years.

Either way, I am in agreeance with bowl1820 here. There very much is a thing about matching equipment to conditions. Personally, I carry three balls around, a dry-medium oil ball, a heavy oil ball and a plastic spare ball. If I were to pull either of my heavy oil balls out(Black Widow venom/ dv8 HRT)out on a medium to dry lane, there is no way I would be able to keep them in the 1/3 pocket.

[Bunny]

The amount of self-taught pro bowlers posting here never ceases to amaze.

Don't listen to the guy who made the video, everyone here is obviously a better bowler than Sk8... the Storm staffer....who also works in a pro shop and makes excellent videos on all sorts of bowling related topics. Blow it off, stay under 180 forever, with never a clue why.

A little sarcasm with your dinner? Too funny!

I enjoy Sk8's videos. They are very thoughtful and well produced.

The kid knows his $#it. At the very least his videos really make you think about and look closely at ball reaction.

[tccstudent]

The one thing I like about these videos is he is playing what I consider my A game that is the line I try and throw. I think I have more hand then him and I have alot more speed then him but from watching these videos he looks pretty similar in style to me. I am gonna have to start keeping an eye on his videos.
I like they way you had options to choose from after each segment to see what would happen.

[dnhoffman]

A little sarcasm with your dinner? Too funny!

I enjoy Sk8's videos. They are very thoughtful and well produced.

The kid knows his $#it. At the very least his videos really make you think about and look closely at ball reaction.

Ya I get cheeky sometimes I know, but you have to admit its a bit hilarious that some posters here, when seeing something from a pro intended to help beginners grow that they may not agree with or understand don't say to themselves "not for me" or "I don't understand that, can someone explain how it's relevant?" But instead, argue that the people who are consistently scoring better than them and have more experience must be wrong. It's baffling.