When did bowling become a battlefield between new and old?

[mc_runner]

I say we go back to rubber and wood, like it's supposed to be.

Don't forget what appears to be only 2 holes in each ball. Beautiful form there, the hand on the knee at release has fallen out of style!

[Hammer]

It all boils down to how good you want to be and how far you want to get into bowling. There is a lot of info out there on how to bowl the modern way. What you have to do is pick out what is best for you. Does the modern approach work for you or the old school way?
Which way works better for the modern balls with their high tech cores and surfaces? What you have to do is find a technique that works for you and that you are happy with. Maybe you don't want to play deep but more straight up the boards over the second arrow and you find a ball that works great for this. Maybe instead of an 8 bowling arsenal you want to get away with only 2 balls that work great for you on whatever pattern you always bowl on. Maybe you are happy with staying on a THS pattern instead of going on all of those other patterns. There is nothing wrong with this. Pick your own style that works for you and practice that. You can't cookie-cutter yourself into something you cannot be. We are all different and can be good with our own style or technique. We just have to practice that and become good at it. But what you must remember is that there are parts of technique that must be done right to be good at this game.

[RobLV1]

Hammer's right! Perhaps you want a car that gets 52 mpg and goes from 0 to 60 in 4.2 seconds. Perhaps you want to put your money in a bank account that will earn you 15% interest. Perhaps you want to eat everything you could ever want and not weight 480 pounds. Perhaps you want to smoke three packs of cigarettes a day and not die of lung cancer. All you have to do is take all of the money from your bank account that earns 15% interest, get into your car that gets 52 mpg and goes from 0 to 60 in 4.2 seconds, head down to the local MacDonalds and wolf down 15 quarter pounders with extra cheese, all while you puff away on your cigarettes that can't possible cause lung cancer. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.... Or you could play the obidient ostrich and bury your head in the sand while you practice improving your technique hitting the second arrow, watching your steroidal bowling ball burn up at 40 feet, leaving weak 10 pins all night long. Your choice. Go for it!

[Aslan]

I'm 97% sure that was sarcasm. :roll eyes:

So Rob, are you disputing Hammer and claiming that it is NOT possible for a bowler to get to the "next level" if they choose NOT to embrace your modern bowling principles such as the inside to outside release, large ball arsenal, etc??

I'm just trying to peel back the sarcasm to see where you actually stand on this.

For example: Some might say that since nearly 100% of pro bowlers have graduated to modern or at least transitional approaches/releases…that it's a "no brainer". However, I'm not aware of more than 2 pros that bowl 2-handed nor ANY pro bowler that bowls thumbless. So if we simply use the logic, "do it because the pros do it and they know whats best." What would we say to a thumbless bowler?

(a bowler that bowls thumbless…not a bowler that lacks thumbs…although I guess it's 6 of one a half dozen of the other.

[GoodGravy]

Interesting Thread.

Here is my story: I bowl a Tuesday night doubles league with a guy who is about as old school as they get. He used to be a big shot back in the late 70's/early 80's (?) with the Bud King of the Hill Series. According to him, he actually won a TV tournament back in the day (what he says...). He is a good enough guy, so I have no reason not to believe him.

I asked him to bowl with me just to help him get out of the house on a weeknight, and he agreed. Needless to say, watching him bowl brings back memories of the old ABC Firestone Championships!! He refuses to go fingertip and only throws over the 5 board so he can 'walk' his ball into the pocket. Now the killer of it is that he is deadly accurate, so he can pull it off most nights.

I was finally able to talk him into discussing his game with one of our old timer pro shop ball drillers. They chatted for about an hour, and he had him drill out a new Cyclone with a fairly neutral drill out (and yes, no inserts and conventional grip). Anyhow, we bowled yesterday and he was all stoked talking about how he was going to show everybody how to actually bowl without using all the 'rigged' balls that are used now.

He actually did pretty good, which I was grateful for since I like to win, and bowled his high game for the season (207). The funny thing about it was that I had a pretty good game also, and with my 'rigged' fingertip with inserts and a balance hole Freakin' Frantic throwing from about the 35 board over the 15 board and break point around 5-7, I hit 240 (not my high game for the season by the way). I also bowled a little back in the day (not at his level though), but somehow I have been able to accept the 'new' game, and I would say done pretty well by it.

So the long and the short of it is that I think you can stay 'old school', but my experience has been you are going to really be selling yourself short if you don't figure out the newer styles. I'm not saying that everybody should run out to the next Belmo instruction class, but it might be worthwhile to just take a look at what is going on in the sport....

[J Anderson]

The rules are still the same and the playing 'field' looks the same but the game of bowling has changed drastically in the last 40 years. It used to be that it was very difficult to get the ball in the pocket at what is now known to be the optimal angle. Good amateur bowlers averaged in the 160s, the high average in my league back then was almost always <190. 220 was considered a great game and we rarely saw anyone shoot higher than 230. Making spares was imperative.

With the changes in balls and lane conditions, strikes are much easier to get. If you cannot put strikes together you will lose. Spares are still important but only because getting spares in between your doubles, triples, etc. gives you a higher score than leaving opens.

[RobLV1]

I'm 97% sure that was sarcasm. :roll eyes:

So Rob, are you disputing Hammer and claiming that it is NOT possible for a bowler to get to the "next level" if they choose NOT to embrace your modern bowling principles such as the inside to outside release, large ball arsenal, etc??

I'm just trying to peel back the sarcasm to see where you actually stand on this.

For example: Some might say that since nearly 100% of pro bowlers have graduated to modern or at least transitional approaches/releases…that it's a "no brainer". However, I'm not aware of more than 2 pros that bowl 2-handed nor ANY pro bowler that bowls thumbless. So if we simply use the logic, "do it because the pros do it and they know whats best." What would we say to a thumbless bowler?

(a bowler that bowls thumbless…not a bowler that lacks thumbs…although I guess it's 6 of one a half dozen of the other.

I prefer to think of it as verbal irony. They're not "my" modern bowling principles. The changes in the bowling environment including synthetic lanes (which were developed, by the way, simply as a way for bowling centers to save money on insuring flammable wooden lanes), reactive resin bowling balls, pins with the center of gravity raised to the point that they fall over if you look at them hard, and the fact that bowling's governing body has chosen to ignore its responsibility for protecting the integrity of the game, have dictated what we, as modern bowlers must do if we want to raise our averages to the maximum possible given our physical potential.

You're right in saying that there are only two professional bowlers at this point in time who use a two handed style, though Tom Smallwood has shown us that there are intermediate styles that incorporate some of the two handed principles. Given the total domination that Jason Belmonte is demonstrating, I truly believe that 15 years from now two handed bowling will be the norm at the top levels unless it is banned at some point by either the PBA or the USBC. As to what to say to a thumbless bowler, I would say that power is only part of the equation, and that to be successful they need to figure out a way to incorporate accuracy as well. That, by the way, is why two handed bowling is here to stay: it allows thumbless bowlers to be accurate.

Please forgive me if I occasionally show my frustration in these forums. I have dedicated many years of my life to becoming a student of the game to try and help bowlers improve their games. Please understand that professionally, I coach predominately 200+ average bowlers, some of whom bowl at the PBA Regional level. I think that you can probably see how frustrating it becomes when recreational bowlers ask for advice and then turn around and argue when I give it to them. Perhaps the problem is in defining the "next level." If you currently average 160 and your ultimate goal is to average 180, then bowl however you want: thumbless, blindfolded, or yes, even backwards. If, however, there is any possibility that you might, at some point, want to get really good, able to compete at the highest levels on the most challenging lane conditions, then you might as well start learning the modern fundamentals now because the longer you choose to ignore them, the harder it will be to learn them later.

[Hampe]

So Rob, are you disputing Hammer and claiming that it is NOT possible for a bowler to get to the "next level" if they choose NOT to embrace your modern bowling principles such as the inside to outside release, large ball arsenal, etc??

Not sure it that's what Rob is saying, but if it isn't then I'LL say it. It does depend on what you mean by the "next level" though. If you are talking about making a living by bowling, well, now a days, yes you pretty much HAVE to incorporate many facets of the "modern" game if you want to have any chance at all. On today's lanes, the modern style will beat out the old school style simply because they have a (even if only slightly) better strike/carry percentage. This is the same reason why many more pros in the future will probably be bowling 2 handed.

If you're talking about just making the PBA, well, there are 4000 members, and scores of examples among them of guys kind of doing their own thing (with modern and old school styles). You'll probably never see those guys making TV finals, but they've still bowled tens of thousands of hours with their style and are good enough to make the PBA. But there IS a reason why 90% of the guys you always see on TV nowadays are the same ones that could be held up as shining examples of the modern game.

Now if your "next level" is to just average 200+, put up respectable scores at regional tournaments, and just be one of the better amateur bowlers in your area, then no, you don't HAVE to incorporate the "modern" style of bowling or have a huge arsenal of bowling balls. At that level, any style will work as long as you can consistently repeat the same shot over and over.

[EDIT] - I see Rob answered while I was still typing, but as I suspected, we have similar views when it comes to this discussion.

[sprocket]

Once again: Bo Burton = old school= 71 years old = 878.

We really can't just throw that "old school" term out there and then not define it. Does Bo Burton throw a full roller? No. How about a spinner? No. Does he only play his favorite line? Highly doubtful. Does he use a conventional grip? No; semi-fingertip I believe. Does he only use old equipment? Highly doubtful.

Does he play the inside of the ball? Not drastically if it all. Does he have high RPM or ball speed? No.

But he has a fundamentally sound textbook game that has stood the test of time. He was great 40 years ago and he's great today. With the SAME GAME.

Look, I bowl thumbless and I'm still going to argue all day long that if you define old school the way I do, then old school is going to work just fine except at MAYBE the very highest level which 99% of us will never achieve.

[RobLV1]

Once again: Bo Burton = old school= 71 years old = 878.

We really can't just throw that "old school" term out there and then not define it. Does Bo Burton throw a full roller? No. But most likely he did back in the 60's and 70's, but he changed. How about a spinner? No. Traditional good bowlers never threw spinners unless they came from Korea. Then and now only lousy bowlers throw spinners. Does he only play his favorite line? Of course not, he was not a house bowler then, and he's not a house bowler now. He's a professional, and professionals know how to adjust, though I'll be willing to bet that his adjustments are different now than they were back in the 70's. Highly doubtful. Does he use a conventional grip? No; semi-fingertip I believe. Does he only use old equipment? Back then they didn't have reactive equipment. If they had, he would have used it then, just as he uses it now. Highly doubtful.

Does he play the inside of the ball? Not drastically if it all. Does he have high RPM or ball speed? No.

But he has a fundamentally sound textbook game that has stood the test of time. He was great 40 years ago and he's great today. With the SAME GAME. You're right that he was great 40 years ago and he's great today, but obviously he had the fundamentals which he has adapted to the modern game to the degree that he has had to. My point is to the bowlers who don't have the fundamentals are are wasting their time learning all of the traditional fundamentals including those that are no longer relevant. If a bowler is coming over the top of the ball and needs to learn the fundamental technique of staying behind the ball, is it really any harder learning to stay behind the ball from the inside lower quadrant? I really don't think so. Many of the bowlers who rant and rave about not learning modern fundamentals in fact don't want to spend the time to learn any fundamentals at all.

Look, I bowl thumbless and I'm still going to argue all day long that if you define old school the way I do, then old school is going to work just fine except at MAYBE the very highest level which 99% of us will never achieve Make it 100% if you aren't willing to work at it.