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Thread: Finally I've seen the light at the end of the tunnel.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    It's kind of ironic that the first article that I wrote for BTM back in 2007 addressed the potential dangers in forming preconceived ideas in bowling. It's a topic that I keep coming back to. Any time that a bowler shows up to bowl either in a league or a tournament with the idea that he has or is going to decide how to play the lanes, it's kind of like walking across a frozen lake without knowing if the ice is really strong enough to keep you from falling in. In a nutshell, the lanes tell us how they want to be played, not the other way around. This includes what ball to use, as well as what line to play. It's great that you were able to shoot 300 in the third game, but what about the first game? Could you have perhaps done a whole lot better than 160 the first game with a more aggressive ball, and changed later? Just some food for thought.
    I know the 160 score sounds bad, and it appears there could be a lot of room for improvement, but let's walk thru the game, and the thought process I had which kept me from changing.

    At end of Practice
    Lane 31 was stand 28, slide 24, lay down 17, arrows 12-13, exit point (39 ft) 6
    Lane 32 was stand 30, slide 26, lay down 19, arrows 14-15, exit point (39 ft) 8

    Frame 1, Lane 32: Dead Flush 10 in the pit.
    No need to adjust.

    Frame 2, Lane 31: Ringing 10, Spare.
    Release felt fine, so I chose not to adjust on just that one incident.

    Frame 3, Lane 32: Dead Flush
    Still no need to adjust.

    Frame 4, Lane 31: Another ringing 10 pin, then I whiffed it.
    After the 2nd 10 pin I wanted to tighten up the line so I moved just my feet one right.

    Frame 5, Lane 32: Pocket 7-10, covered the 7.
    Again I felt fine, just a bad break so no adjustment

    Frame 6, Lane 31: Solid 8. Spare.
    I guess this just isn't my night, no adjustment.

    Frame 7, Lane 32: 2-4-8 (10 fell late), spare.
    Sent the ball a couple of boards wide.
    Shouldn't have adjusted off a bad shot, but I decided to move right a board with my feet.

    Frame 8, Lane 31: Flush, 10 in pit.
    No adjustment

    Frame 9, Lane 32: 4-6-7-10, covered 4-7
    Missed target left, ball set on the oil line, then hooked onto nose.
    decided to undo the adjustment after frame 7.

    Frame 10, Lane 31: Ring 10, Spare, Flush 10 in pit.

    This is why I said, the game was a lot better than the 160 score.

    Game 2 was 9/ X 7/ 9/ 9/ 9/ 9/ X X X XX9 225

    But I don't have a clear memory of what each shot was.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MICHAEL View Post
    NICE shooting Mike!! Was that 300 in league?? I FRICKEN HOPE SO!! Regardless,,, nice shooting!
    Yes is was sanctioned.. I opted for the 300 Crystal trophy since I already have the gold/diamond ring that the ABC made available in 1990.

    My goal now is to get the 11 in a row award before it goes away. And the 800, but I guess I should shoot at least a 700 this season first.

    I shot a 299 on 3/5/90, the 10th Monday of the year, so maybe on 3/10/14 I'll hit the 11 in a row.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    It's kind of ironic that the first article that I wrote for BTM back in 2007 addressed the potential dangers in forming preconceived ideas in bowling. It's a topic that I keep coming back to. Any time that a bowler shows up to bowl either in a league or a tournament with the idea that he has or is going to decide how to play the lanes, it's kind of like walking across a frozen lake without knowing if the ice is really strong enough to keep you from falling in. In a nutshell, the lanes tell us how they want to be played, not the other way around. This includes what ball to use, as well as what line to play.
    I completely agree with your idea. I fully accept that my situation is an outlier.

    I've just never run into a condition (while I was healthy) where I couldn't hook a "spare" ball like most others hook resin balls.

    I learned to hook the ball back in the blue/white/yellow dot days, when 99% of my opponents were playing straight up the boards.

    I constantly heard, you can't be consistent while crossing that many boards, yet I collected side pot after side pot from these people.

    Back then I trained my hand to swing the ball from 15 to the ditch, and back.

    With the modern ball, you need much less hand to play the same line. I've learned I'm far less consistent trying to use much less hand.
    Using the modern ball I got my average up to 190, but that was mainly due to my spare shooting abilities. I was leaving about four 9 counts for each strike on average.

    So for me the solution is to use much less ball.
    I may not be able to hit the pocket quite as hard as some others with a resin ball, but I also don't deplete the oil on the lane anywhere near what a resin ball does.

  4. #14

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    Let's take a look at your 160 game:

    At end of Practice
    Lane 31 was stand 28, slide 24, lay down 17, arrows 12-13, exit point (39 ft) 6
    Lane 32 was stand 30, slide 26, lay down 19, arrows 14-15, exit point (39 ft) 8

    Frame 1, Lane 32: Dead Flush 10 in the pit.
    No need to adjust.

    Frame 2, Lane 31: Ringing 10, Spare.
    Release felt fine, so I chose not to adjust on just that one incident.
    Would a more aggressive ball found a little more friction and not entered the pocket behind the head pin?

    Frame 3, Lane 32: Dead Flush
    Still no need to adjust.

    Frame 4, Lane 31: Another ringing 10 pin, then I whiffed it.
    Would a more aggressive ball have found a little more friction and not entered the pocket behind the head pin?
    After the 2nd 10 pin I wanted to tighten up the line so I moved just my feet one right.

    Frame 5, Lane 32: Pocket 7-10, covered the 7.
    Pocket 7-10, ball hit like a marshmallow, need I say more?
    Again I felt fine, just a bad break so no adjustment

    Frame 6, Lane 31: Solid 8. Spare.
    In modern bowling, the solid 8 is no longer "the only true tap." It's caused by a ball that deflects off the head pin, but not quite enough to result in a weak 10.
    I guess this just isn't my night, no adjustment.

    Frame 7, Lane 32: 2-4-8 (10 fell late), spare.
    Sent the ball a couple of boards wide.
    Shouldn't have adjusted off a bad shot, but I decided to move right a board with my feet. Uh, oh!

    Frame 8, Lane 31: Flush, 10 in pit.
    No adjustment

    Frame 9, Lane 32: 4-6-7-10, covered 4-7
    Missed target left, ball set on the oil line, then hooked onto nose.
    decided to undo the adjustment after frame 7. If a one board adjustment gets you the BIG FOUR, then you are either using the wrong ball or playing the wrong line, or both.

    Frame 10, Lane 31: Ring 10, Spare, Flush 10 in pit.

    MICHAEL: I'm really not trying to be difficult, but to really raise your bowling to the next level, you, like many bowlers, need to lose the idea that bowling is mainly luck. It's not. There is no such thing as leaving a single pin in the back row standing that doesn't have a correctable reason. The same goes for the "dreaded" pocket seven-ten split. That split is virtually always caused by playing a line that is burned up, or totally losing the ball at the release point, or both.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike White View Post
    My goal now is to get the 11 in a row award before it goes away. And the 800, but I guess I should shoot at least a 700 this season first.
    I agree with both those statements. I'd really like to get a 700 series and really, really want an 11-in-a-row before the award goes away.

    Umm…MWhite!!?? Are you mad at me or something?? I never hear from you anymore!! I'm thinking of coming out to see you to have a ball drilled later this month or early next month. You still in business? Or now that you threw a 300 game you're too important to deal with riff raff like me?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    Let's take a look at your 160 game:

    At end of Practice
    Lane 31 was stand 28, slide 24, lay down 17, arrows 12-13, exit point (39 ft) 6
    Lane 32 was stand 30, slide 26, lay down 19, arrows 14-15, exit point (39 ft) 8

    Frame 1, Lane 32: Dead Flush 10 in the pit.
    No need to adjust.

    Frame 2, Lane 31: Ringing 10, Spare.
    Release felt fine, so I chose not to adjust on just that one incident.
    Would a more aggressive ball found a little more friction and not entered the pocket behind the head pin?

    Frame 3, Lane 32: Dead Flush
    Still no need to adjust.

    Frame 4, Lane 31: Another ringing 10 pin, then I whiffed it.
    Would a more aggressive ball have found a little more friction and not entered the pocket behind the head pin?
    After the 2nd 10 pin I wanted to tighten up the line so I moved just my feet one right.

    Frame 5, Lane 32: Pocket 7-10, covered the 7.
    Pocket 7-10, ball hit like a marshmallow, need I say more?
    Again I felt fine, just a bad break so no adjustment

    Frame 6, Lane 31: Solid 8. Spare.
    In modern bowling, the solid 8 is no longer "the only true tap." It's caused by a ball that deflects off the head pin, but not quite enough to result in a weak 10.
    I guess this just isn't my night, no adjustment.

    Frame 7, Lane 32: 2-4-8 (10 fell late), spare.
    Sent the ball a couple of boards wide.
    Shouldn't have adjusted off a bad shot, but I decided to move right a board with my feet. Uh, oh!

    Frame 8, Lane 31: Flush, 10 in pit.
    No adjustment

    Frame 9, Lane 32: 4-6-7-10, covered 4-7
    Missed target left, ball set on the oil line, then hooked onto nose.
    decided to undo the adjustment after frame 7. If a one board adjustment gets you the BIG FOUR, then you are either using the wrong ball or playing the wrong line, or both.

    Frame 10, Lane 31: Ring 10, Spare, Flush 10 in pit.

    MICHAEL: I'm really not trying to be difficult, but to really raise your bowling to the next level, you, like many bowlers, need to lose the idea that bowling is mainly luck. It's not. There is no such thing as leaving a single pin in the back row standing that doesn't have a correctable reason. The same goes for the "dreaded" pocket seven-ten split. That split is virtually always caused by playing a line that is burned up, or totally losing the ball at the release point, or both.
    I understand words can be interpreted many ways, so let me show you a video that gives you a better idea of what my bowling style looks like.

    I haven't had the opportunity video my bowling recently but it feels similar to this video here

    This video documented my situation at approximately 6 weeks after returning to the sport.

    I had approximately a 15-20 year absence from the game.

    While I was attempting to throw the ball like I had in the late 80's, I had some issues with the delivery. Mainly the early release while the ball was still in the downward portion of the swing.

    I don't feel this video includes 12 great shots. There are at least 3 that were total crap.

    Shortly after the video I sustained an arm injury.

    I tried to find an alternate method of throwing the "modern" ball while not causing more pain in my arm. I documented this attempt here

    After a year+ of trying to learn what the "modern" bowling ball wants, I've decided I can't produce it anywhere near as consistent/effective as what I do with an "old school" ball.

    Now lets get to your comments.

    Would a more aggressive ball have found a little more friction and not entered the pocket behind the head pin?

    I wish you would be a little more accurate with your words. There is no "pocket" behind the head pin.

    The pocket is the location that the ball must make contact with the headpin such that it drives the headpin directly towards the 7 pin. The headpin hits the 2 pin, which in turn hits the 4 pin, and the 4 into the 7 pin.

    If that sequence of events doesn't occur you at best hit near the pocket, or one or more pins were off spot.

    The 10 pin leave (once the ball has hit the head pin properly) is caused by too much deflection to the right.

    The difference between a weak 10, and a ring 10 is only the quantity of deflection.

    If I had a more aggressive ball:

    The ball would have followed a different path contacting the head pin in a less than optimal location.
    What ball would you suggest as more aggressive than the Polar Ice?
    Many balls would qualify, but they would also be considered significantly more aggressive.
    What would be "slightly" more aggressive?

    Pocket 7-10, ball hit like a marshmallow, need I say more?

    I think you are projecting onto my description what you expect to see when others leave a 7-10.
    Since I don't have video of the shot I can't prove to you that it wasn't a "marshmallow"
    But take my word for it, it wasn't.
    What you describe is when the 5 pin slides towards, but doesn't knock down the 7 pin.
    My 5 pin was driven into the 8 pin.

    In modern bowling, the solid 8 is no longer "the only true tap." It's caused by a ball that deflects off the head pin, but not quite enough to result in a weak 10.

    What is your criteria for "modern" bowling?
    The ball always deflects off the head pin. That is pure physics.
    When it comes to the "true tap" you have to determine what happens to the head pin after it hits the 2 pin.
    If it gets between the ball and the 5 pin, it can cause the 5 pin to move to the right a little before the ball contacts the 5 pin, and then the ball drives the 5 pin just to the right of the 8 pin.
    If you have the opportunity to see some video of "old school" solid 8 pins, you will see the 5 pin is moved before the ball contacts it.

    Also since I'm using a urethane covered, pancake weight block ball, I don't think my shot falls under the new criteria for modern bowling's true taps.

    If a one board adjustment gets you the BIG FOUR, then you are either using the wrong ball or playing the wrong line, or both.

    Nice try, but you must have overlooked where I said I missed my target left. It was the combination of the one board adjustment, and the 2-3 board tug.
    I indicated that the ball set on the oil line (10 board on a THS), rather than arced out thru 8 board at 39 feet.

    MICHAEL: I'm really not trying to be difficult, but to really raise your bowling to the next level, you, like many bowlers, need to lose the idea that bowling is mainly luck. It's not. There is no such thing as leaving a single pin in the back row standing that doesn't have a correctable reason. The same goes for the "dreaded" pocket seven-ten split. That split is virtually always caused by playing a line that is burned up, or totally losing the ball at the release point, or both.
    Ok it's the 5th frame of the 1st game. Nobody is playing anywhere near as deep as I am, and I'm using a urethane ball. I think we can eliminate the idea that the line was burned up.
    I will concede that I may not have hit the ball as cleanly as the previous strike shots on that lane. (my feel is just beginning to return) However if I had "totally lost the ball at release" I wouldn't have even hit the head pin.

    Looking at the last shot in the first video I linked to. Explain the "correctable reason" for the 7 pin.
    I have my idea of what the reason was, but I'd like to hear yours.

    Oh BTW, that first video, the ball being used is a #15 Columbia 300 White Dot.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    I agree with both those statements. I'd really like to get a 700 series and really, really want an 11-in-a-row before the award goes away.

    Umm…MWhite!!?? Are you mad at me or something?? I never hear from you anymore!! I'm thinking of coming out to see you to have a ball drilled later this month or early next month. You still in business? Or now that you threw a 300 game you're too important to deal with riff raff like me?
    No, I was always too important to deal with riff raft like you

    BTW when are we going to have that shootout?

    On wood?

    And how did the other shootout go with the guy in San Diego?

    BTW when you came to my place and we bowled, you saw me unsuccessfully trying to throw the modern ball.
    It's nothing like what I'm doing now.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    I like this post because he did it OLD SKOOL. So what are we talking here? Were you playing 2nd arrow? Straight shot? A little "flare" at the end?

    From your summary, it sounds like you played you line and waited for it to work as oil got moved around. Or did you make a minor adjustment after game 2?? Inquiring minds want to know!!?

    Storm is probably not going to want to publicize the 300 game though. They kinda have a vested interest in people buying BYTEs and IQs and Zero Gravitys....they don't want a bunch of potential customers pulling Polar Ices out of their closet.

    But MOST importantly...welcome back Mr. Mike. I've been wondering where you've been hiding. I'm gonna be giving you a call in a couple weeks to set up a time to have a ball drilled. The Frantic is nearing semi-retirement and I want to have you tri-grip drill my Slingshot.
    Ok I guess I missed this post somehow.

    Old school in equipment only.

    The influences in my style (from PBA TV) were people like Mark Roth (the amount of energy put into the ball), Marshal Holman (fast feet, long slide, release during the slide), Mike Aulby (pure consistency), Steve Cook (high revs), John Gant (even higher revs).

    Since there wasn't anyone inside of my line in the heads, and no one near my line at the break point, and I wasn't throwing a ball that absorbed oil, the shot stayed pretty much the same all 3 games.

  9. #19
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    Default Aslan was Game, But..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike White View Post
    No, I was always too important to deal with riff raft like you

    BTW when are we going to have that shootout?

    On wood?

    And how did the other shootout go with the guy in San Diego?

    BTW when you came to my place and we bowled, you saw me unsuccessfully trying to throw the modern ball.
    It's nothing like what I'm doing now.
    I believe the guy from San Diego...........



    OUT!!
    Last edited by MICHAEL; 02-06-2014 at 07:38 AM.
    Don't walk on Thin Ice!

  10. #20

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    Okay, Mike, I was just trying to help. Use your Polar ICE and enjoy your bowling.

    Rob Mautner

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