New driling layout

[ghetto24]

so im bowling for my college team and our coach has changed everything and anything about my throw. from steps, to hand, to backswing. you name it, we changed it. in spite of all that changing my ball now rolls over the thumb with my pin down balls. pin up, it rolls just fine. so my coach thought maybe i was a full roller. we decided to drill up a ball for a full roller (pin under thumb). i threw it in league last night and sure enough, shot a 720. my flare was exactly between my fingers and thumb.

any other other full rollers out there? how did you learn about it? do you like it? do you dislike it?

[sprocket]

See, I don't get that at all. I could see if your pin down balls were hitting the inner quadrant of the thumb hole and you pin up balls were hitting the center or outer part of the thumb hole. On the initial track, I mean. But you seem to be saying that your pin up balls tracked outside the thumb hole. How can a full roller lay-out move the initial track all the way to the inside of the thumb hole?

Or does your ball always hit the thumb hole right off your hand and then flares one way or the other depending on the lay-out?

[RobLV1]

If you draw a line from a bowler's PAP, out through the pin, it will give you the location of the bowtie. On pin down balls, for someone who tracks the ball fairly high, this will put the bowtie high enough that the first flare will hit the thumbhole. On pin up balls, the bowtie is lowered and will generally track outside of both the thumb and finger holes. A full-roller layout actually moves the track up so that it goes between the thumb and fingers. A full roller today, by the way, should not necessarily be confused with the full roller of the past. I know a very high average bowler who throws a full roller, with about 5" of flare between the fingers and thumb, and he hooks the entire lane.

[striker12]

i use to be a full roller but i changed out of it from all the work i have done with my bowling

[sprocket]

Rob, how does the initial track move unless the ball is actually flaring in the air on the first revolution? Is that was is happening?

One of my pet peeves is the use of the term "full roller" to describe someone whose track is between the thumb and finger holes. That's not necessarily a full roller track. A full roller is a bowler who has very close to zero tilt or actually has zero tilt. Very few actually have exactly zero tilt but may have very close to it plus or minus. A bowler can have virtually zero tilt and still track outside the holes. It's unlikely but possible. It's also possible to track between the holes and yet have some tilt. I would really like to know how much tilt Tom Smallwood has because he is a half thumber and therefore his thumb is positioned well outside the fingers when he grips the ball and that is a big part of why his track goes inside the thumb hole. I say unless he has very close to zero tilt, he is not a full roller.

[got_a_300]

I know a very high average bowler who throws a full roller, with about 5" of flare between the fingers and thumb, and he hooks the entire lane.

If I'm not mistaken I believe Tom Smallwood throws a full roller and look
at all the revs and hook he gets on it and he's a touring Pro to boot.

[bowl1820]

Rob, how does the initial track move unless the ball is actually flaring in the air on the first revolution? Is that was is happening?

Balls can flare in the air depending on core and release.

At least enough so that the track will move away some from the thumb hole.

A Mo Pinel Quote:
" Keep in mind, bowling balls DO NOT hook in the air, but they do flare in the air! "

[Mudpuppy]

Balls can flare in the air depending on core and release.

At least enough so that the track will move away some from the thumb hole.

A Mo Pinel Quote:
" Keep in mind, bowling balls DO NOT hook in the air, but they do flare in the air! "

What does that flare do to the ball and ultimately the reaction of the ball? What is the affect on your shot? In general anyways.

[bowl1820]

What does that flare do to the ball and ultimately the reaction of the ball? What is the affect on your shot? In general anyways.

The little bit of flare that happens from the time the ball leaves your hand to touching the lane. From what I've read is basically meaningless as far as the reaction on the lane goes.

The only thing it doe's is that it can cause small changes in the P.A.P. location (The PAP change is caused by design dynamics). That's why when you get a new ball, you should try to use the PAP from an older ball that's similar to it.

[Mudpuppy]

The little bit of flare that happens from the time the ball leaves your hand to touching the lane. From what I've read is basically meaningless as far as the reaction on the lane goes.

The only thing it doe's is that it can cause small changes in the P.A.P. location (The PAP change is caused by design dynamics). That's why when you get a new ball, you should try to use the PAP from an older ball that's similar to it.

So basically the PAP is designed to leave the bowlers hand with little to no loft to get the desired reaction? And lofting or throwing in the air causes "flare" that throws the PAP location off and could result in undesirable results in regards to ball reaction?