Is it okay to put the fingers into the shot with current bowling balls?

[J Anderson]

On a side note that British guy that I have seen on TV here lately, ( can't think of his name right off hand), looks like he has NO LIFT at all? Very strange, non follow through compared to all American bowlers.

How does he get the great revs, and bowl so well using a straight out arm release.

Sounds like Stu Williams.

[Mike White]

MIke,,, a little love here!! Don't be so defensive. If you don't agree with a commit, and that commit is someone giving an opinion about you, or something you have said , YOU ATTACK!!

Mike,, this is a form. You are not o trial, nor is your life depending on you being absolutely correct in your thoughts, or ideas about BOWLING!

YES is JUST BOWLING,,, nothing personal! I want a little more LOVE, and less defensive posturing.

I like you mike, lighten up.

Or not, its up to you,,, God Bless America!!! Home of the best bowlers in the World!!

p.s. For what its worth bud, I thought you had a great delivery! I should be so smooth!! Take care of that ARM!
Have you ever read about DMSO! GREAT stuff, I have used for over 7 years! Actually have a couple books on
the subject. NOTHING LIKE IT for pain and inflammation!

Wow, that came across as an attack?

In my 2nd video, I see plenty wrong with it, and the muscling is a minor one.

A major one is that it all happens way too early.

Back when I had things under control, the muscling / release happened much later so muscling didn't try to increase speed, but just increase revolutions.

That 2nd video has the ball going thud problem as well as very high axis tilt.

I asked the question about a no thumb release because one must use muscle to generate forward speed if there isn't a long arm swing, or use the leg muscles to "run" to the line.

Muscling when used correctly, isn't as bad of a thing as some people seem to think.

[zdawg]

Wow, that came across as an attack?

In my 2nd video, I see plenty wrong with it, and the muscling is a minor one.

A major one is that it all happens way too early.

Back when I had things under control, the muscling / release happened much later so muscling didn't try to increase speed, but just increase revolutions.

That 2nd video has the ball going thud problem as well as very high axis tilt.

I asked the question about a no thumb release because one must use muscle to generate forward speed if there isn't a long arm swing, or use the leg muscles to "run" to the line.

Muscling when used correctly, isn't as bad of a thing as some people seem to think.

I've been told the same thing, basically I was told if its done at the end aka during or just before the release it can actually be very beneficial. I haven't tried incorporating any of this yet, its taken me 5 months to get a good release, relaxed armswing, etc. but at some point I will revisit this probably after my league has concluded.

[Pauley]

From the articles I have read and slow motion video I have watched, the "modern" release is more of a horizontal motion through the middle of the ball instead of a more vertical lift up the side of the ball.

If you watch Mike Fagan's release from the side in slow motion, you will see what I am talking about. He "pushes/rolls" the ball onto the lane in a horizontal motion, there is no lift involved at all.

I watched some videos of Stu Williams after I saw him bowl on one of the WSOB TV finals and his release is not very different from others he just chooses to "saw off" his follow through and keeps his arm and hand below his shoulders giving the illusion he has no lift. Just because the arm and hand come up above the head because of momentum does not mean they are "lifting" at the release point.

[MICHAEL]

From the articles I have read and slow motion video I have watched, the "modern" release is more of a horizontal motion through the middle of the ball instead of a more vertical lift up the side of the ball.

If you watch Mike Fagan's release from the side in slow motion, you will see what I am talking about. He "pushes/rolls" the ball onto the lane in a horizontal motion, there is no lift involved at all.

I watched some videos of Stu Williams after I saw him bowl on one of the WSOB TV finals and his release is not very different from others he just chooses to "saw off" his follow through and keeps his arm and hand below his shoulders giving the illusion he has no lift. Just because the arm and hand come up above the head because of momentum does not mean they are "lifting" at the release point.

I am having a real hard time understanding this Push, roll the ball in an horizontal motion! Up to this point, I foucs on coming up the side of the ball and with LIFT!

Horizontal movement through the middle of the ball,,, NOT Registering,,, I need to explore this movement more!

[Hammer]

With all of this lift or not to lift you just have to try both and see what works for you. The only time you really need to lift with the fingers is if you are using a urethane or old rubber ball because they do need a little help to get to the pocket. With the reactive resin balls with their special cores and surfaces that act like snow tires they don't need and help with finger lift.

I have a Raw Hammer Anger ball that I use on a THS pattern on league nights that is oiled right before we bowl and I put no lift on it and it hooks like a boomerang. By the way, this is when I am playing deep with my slide foot on board 30 to 35 and throwing between arrow three and four out to breakpoint board four to ten. My speed is 13.5 to 14.8mph. Ball surface is 2000 Abralon matte surface. I do not have a pro release but a pretty good one.

I recently changed the surface to 4000 Abralon and put slick polish on it to tame the hook as an experiment. The only thing that I do at release is to try and stay on the inside of the ball as long as possible and when my thumb comes out I uncup and turn the ball only an inch or two and keep my fingertips bent like they were when I put them in the ball. The reason for that is when I uncup the weight of the ball pulls off of the bent fingertips which causes the ball to get the revs I need without fingertip lift.

All I can say is try making your shot with lift or just uncup and leave your fingertips bent and see what works best for you and the lane condition you bowl on. It doesn't have to become an argument with somebody here that becomes a war of those that lift and those that don't. JUST DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU. THE END.

[Aslan]

A) Lets play a drinking game where you have to do a shot everytime Hammer:

1. Mentions a Hammer Raw Anger ball.
2. References the Youtube Moder 10-pin bowling video.
3. References an article by Rob Mautner.

Rob = Hammer??? Well played...using a pseudo-Rob to advertise!! I like it!!

Kidding aside....I don't get it. I've watched that dumb video about 25 times and have spent nearly an hour trying to figure out how leaving your hand behind the ball makes it rotate sideways....it doesn't work. Maybe at like ultra low speeds...but most pin carry is in the 19-21mph range...so good luck throwing 11mph. And how do you keep you hand going straight to the target if you shoot it out laterally?? Pete Weber IS a good example...when he releases...his release goes out to the SIDE instead of towards the target and up (like old footage).

The problem I see with the modern approach is it relies on 2 things:
1) An assymetric ball (and not just assymetric because it's drilled)
2) An arsenal.

Try making a low-mid performance ball with a symmetric core hook at 19mph without bringing your fingers up the side...I know I can't. And I've tried like hell(0kitty).

Remember how they used to make balls go straight before the plastic revolution?? Remember keeping your palm behind the ball?? Thats what my ball does...straight as an arrow. And I'm only throwing 14.7-16.9mph...still goes straight.

I've got a lesson with Rob scheduled for late March. Thats right...the Evil Aslan meets the King of Arsenals/Plastic Balls/Modern Releases and all things Holy!! So maybe he can teach this old dog a new trick or two. Gotta do SOMETHING to get to that next level. Trouncing zDawg then M. White should be no problem. But how long before Iceman shows up on his gOld Wing and challenges me for dominance!!? Thats like Godzilla challenging the Stay Puff Marshmellow man!! I need to at least be as powerful as Mothra!!

[josheaton16]

It doesn't go straight because there hand isn't behind the ball the whole time it just ends there. It starts on the inside so they are still getting rotation that way.

[Hammer]

On that you know what video I always say to look at to see the pro release they do not stay behind the ball the whole time. If you watch closely when they are reaching the release area their hand goes from the inside quadrant of the ball then when their thumb comes out their hand is behind the ball and then quickly rotates to the right about an inch or two and then the ball pulls off of their fingertips which causes the revs they get. They don't have to lift up the side of the ball to get revs.

Depending on what target they are shooting at or what lane condition they are bowling on they can come up from straight behind the ball
to going as far as having their hand come up the side of the ball which would be 90 degrees. Anything more then 90 degrees would give you a spinner.

You are right about me talking too much about my Hammer Anger ball. I am wearing it out just by talking about it sooo much. The reason is that I only have a two ball arsenal my Hammer Blue and the Anger. OOPS! Sorry about that. Just for laughs I think I will go out and add a third ball to my arsenal that way I will have a new ball to talk about all of the time instead of my Anger. OOPS! LOL.

[Pauley]

When you see a modern release from behind in slow motion the hand comes from the inside of the ball, then uncups or uncocks slightly to the outside of the ball. When I said middle of the ball I meant it is not all the way on the outside, it is slightly outside but not much at all.

This puts plenty of revs on the ball because once the thumb clears the ball is being projected to the right of the head pin while the hand and fingers thenmove to the left of that, more towards the headpin or even the 7 pin.

This is evident in one of Joe Slowinski's articles about using the backup ball drill. There is a frame by frame view from the front of Sean Rash's normal release and you would think he was throwing a backup ball, yet he is a true power player.

***Disclaimer- I am far from an expert and very new to bowling. This is just what I have learned from reading and watching video.