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Thread: BowlingBoards.com Southern California Tour: Inaugural Season

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mc_runner View Post
    I think there are ways to do it. My teammate does an online virtual league for fun, he takes pics of his signed scoresheet then sends them in. I'll ask him about it tomorrow - I think they are even on leaguesecretary.
    Might be something like this: http://virtualtournaments.com/

    My understanding is they only use scores from sanctioned leagues, and they call the bowling centers to verify the scores after they've been reported

  2. #22
    Pin Crusher noeymc's Avatar
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    you can get print offs of scores and and most times u can see how many times they edited it
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    Okay...there's been some major confusion in less than 24 hours.
    The biggest confusion is you thinking you're in charge.

    Your comments below show you lack the bowling IQ required to make sound and fair decisions.

    1) It's a series, 1st Saturday of the month, IN PERSON, just like what we did in Temecula...except we don't crown a champ until the end of the year. It's just a mini-travel-league, non sanctioned.
    I'd rather organize something more inclusive of the whole membership.

    2) We're not eliminating one house because it's in a "bad area". Don't get me wrong...I'm kinda ticked that the stupid random number generator picked San Bernadino and Yucca Valley...which were like as FAR on the outskirts of the area as possible....but whatever. I'm from Detroit...where every bowling alley is in a bad area. It cant be worse than Detroit. There was one off 8-mile that I was going to try (cuz it was by my friend's house in Hazel Park) but the night before we were going to go there, there was a shooting there...so we passed.
    Well considering there has been 4 murders in the area just this month, I think I'll pass as well.

    IF...you and ZDawg....BOTH want to "re-do" the list....then we can go to a list where we each pick 3 houses. But we're not eliminating one for this reason and one for another reason, etc... Pretty soon Mike will just be eliminating houses he's afraid might have a reverse block oiling pattern...and then we'll never find a place to bowl at.
    Then we'll never fine a place. So the other option is to allow everyone interested to bowl at the location they are currently scheduled to be at.

    3) All members are eligible...but they have to show up IN PERSON. You can't "mail in" results. This site is a cheater's paradise...people would just be mailing in 700-800 series without even bowling. Remember Bill F? We'll have guys claiming to be former PBA legends and using unsanctioned scores or no-tap scores...no way...thats just silly. You want the glory...show up and take it.
    If you're so afraid of people cheating, don't participate.

    4) Averages will START based on your highest USBC average....but will after the 2nd week be based on your first 2 weeks of Tour play. Just like any league. Zdawg and I don't even have 3 years of averages.
    Lets think about this problem. If you and ZDawg don't have 3 years of averages, and the rule is your highest composite average in the last 3 years, I guess the one year you do have, will be your highest. Now wasn't that simple.


    5) 90% of 250!!? NNTBZZZZT!! Stop cheating!! I know you're scared after getting trounced in the invitational...but 90% of 250 is ABSURD!! Thats 20 pins higher than even the HIGHEST commonly used. 90% of 220 is perfectly acceptable. If you average over 198 (.9 x 220)....you shouldn't NEED handicap!! Everyone 198 and over bowls scratch. I'd be open to 90% of 230 (207)....but if the goal is to just make it a scratch league...then whats the point of me and zdawg participating??
    Just because it's something you don't understand, doesn't mean you need to be afraid of it.
    Calling 90% of 250 cheating shows a complete lack of bowling IQ, and poor math skills.

    Lets compare 90% of 220, vs 90% of 230, vs 90% of 250.

    Lets assume we have a list of competitors with averages of 140, 160, 180, 200, 220, and 240.

    At 90% of 220:

    the 140 avg bowler gets 72 pins
    the 160 avg bowler gets 54 pins
    the 180 avg bowler gets 36 pins
    the 200 avg bowler gets 18 pins
    the 220 avg bowler gets 0 pins
    the 240 avg bowler gets 0 pins.

    If the 240 avg bowler shoots his average, the 140 bowler has to shoot 28 pins over average just to tie.

    Notice the difference in the handicap between the 140, 160, 180, 200, and 220 bowler is 18 pins per 20 pins of average difference.

    At 90% of 230:

    the 140 avg bowler gets 81 pins
    the 160 avg bowler gets 63 pins
    the 180 avg bowler gets 45 pins
    the 200 avg bowler gets 27 pins
    the 220 avg bowler gets 9 pins
    the 240 avg bowler gets 0 pins.

    If the 240 avg bowler shoots his average, the 140 bowler has to shoot 19 pins over average just to tie.

    Notice again. the difference in the handicap between the 140, 160, 180, 200, and 220 bowler is 18 pins per 20 pins of average difference.

    Finally

    At 90% of 250:

    the 140 avg bowler gets 99 pins
    the 160 avg bowler gets 81 pins
    the 180 avg bowler gets 63 pins
    the 200 avg bowler gets 45 pins
    the 220 avg bowler gets 27 pins
    the 240 avg bowler gets 9 pins.

    If the 240 avg bowler shoots his average, the 140 bowler has to shoot 10 pins over average just to tie.

    Notice this time, the difference in handicap is 18 pins per 20 pins of average difference for everyone under the assumption that no one averaging over 250 would be interested in competing is this.

    Do you still think 90% of 250 is absurd, and or cheating?

    Here, let me show you absurd, and cheating.

    90% of 140.

    My 192 would get 0 pins,
    Aslan's 166 would get 0 pins.
    ZDawgs 142 would get 0 pins.

    Oh wait, it's the low number that is cheating, not the high number. Amazing isn't it.


    6) As for bowling "blind"....I don't really care much...I just think if it's me, you, and zdawg...there's gonna be 1 event or so where "something comes up"...and while that should be perfectly 'okay'...we dont want to make the attendence so mandatory that it makes people not wanna participate....we also want to encourage participation by saying, "it's okay to miss", but you bowl blind at 90% of your average for that series at that location. But I'm open to other ideas on this.
    Ok it's better to make it impossible (In Person) for people to participate, than just making it a little difficult (mandatory attendance).

    Okay MWhite and ZDawg (and other SoCal potential entrants)...we're in the early planning stages....there's still 3 weeks before the proposed start date for the 9-month Mini-Travel League Spectacular. Are we going to be able to agree on locations? Averages? Handicap? Or will these negotiations take us into April?? We DID manage to put together a fairly error-free Invitational...so fans are optimistic...

    ....but after the fallout from the invitational, Aslan's victory in question, MWhite's accusations of oil pattern manipulation...will future events just be too difficult to arrange?? Only time will tell. Stay Tuned!! Same BAT Time, same BAT channel!!

    You may plan all you want, but you've already shot yourself in the foot. Good luck getting anyone besides yourself to participate in your "Spectacular".

  4. #24
    Pin Crusher noeymc's Avatar
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    if someone cheats on this they need a life its not like ur going to win anything its not like we care if your a good bowler we just care that u enjoy bowling
    Stroker
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by noeymc View Post
    if someone cheats on this they need a life its not like ur going to win anything its not like we care if your a good bowler we just care that u enjoy bowling
    Can we take up a collection to buy noeymc a set of commas, periods, and the occasional question mark?

  6. #26

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    I had some extra laying around so I will just pass them over.....................,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,????????????????????;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;::::::: ::::::::::::!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'''''''''''''"" """""""""""""""""""
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  7. #27
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    Well, it sounds like the Southern California Tour ended as fast as it began.

    I thought the idea was instead of doing a 1-game tournament we do a monthly "tour" and use wins or pinfall or something like that spread out over x many months. Now it seems that Mike's idea is some kind of virtual tournament where we never actually meet up and bowl, we just use reported scores...which just doesn't make sense to me because we'd be bowling at completely different houses on different conditions on different days...or if we expand it...even different states/countries. I don't see how that shows much of anything....even if people are honest (which I guarantee some wont be).

    The Tour was an interesting idea, but we need 3 competitors minimum and it sounds like Mike is out.

    As for the 90% of X...

    If my average is 166, zdawg's is 151, and your's is 190...

    Using 90% of 220;
    ZDawg gets 47 pins per game
    Aslan gets 32 pins per game
    MWhite gets 8 pins per game

    Using 90% of 230;
    ZDawg gets 56 pins per game
    Aslan gets 41 pins per game
    MWhite gets 17 pins per game

    Using 90% of 250;
    ZDawg gets 74 pins per game
    Aslan gets 59 pins per game
    MWhite gets 35 pins per game

    So using our last set of scores from the OFFICIAL tournament from early March:

    At 90% of 220;
    Aslan- 550; MWhite- 517, ZDawg- 513

    At 90% of 230;
    Aslan- 577; MWhite- 544; ZDawg- 540

    At 90% of 250;
    Aslan 631; MWhite- 598; ZDawg- 594

    So really, it doesn't change much when using the example of my recent dominant performance...it only moves you ahead of ZDawg by a very slight margin. For some reason, I thought in that other post, that Bowl1820 showed the results coming out differently as the .90x was increased. So, I withdraw my objection. Using .9 of 250 will only help you against higher average bowlers and since that'll never be me or zdawg (or anyone else with the guts to show)...it'll never come into play.

    ZDawg...still open to the idea of a Tour...we just need a 3rd. And I have no problem picking the 3 venues each...since Mike is afraid of San Bernadino (I aint thrilled about it either...mainly because it's like 2 hours drive for you and over an hour for me...same with Yucca Valley...stupid computer!). But then your 3 venues will probably be San Diego based...so thats a 1.5-2 hour drive for me. I could narrow the search a bit...Temecula, Murrieta, Lake Elsinore, Oceanside, Hemet....I mean, there ARE lanes that are more "in between"...I just thought it more fair (and interesting) to draw a semi-circle from Santa Monica over to San Bernadino down to Yucca Valley, then to San Diego. That half circle gives us a TON of options in 5 different counties, 4 different USBC regions. Unfortunately, the map scale wasn't entirely accurate so what I thought was a 90-mile radius turned out to be more like a 170-mile radius...and of course, the computer picked 2 of 9 centers that are 130-170 out. Luck of the draw I guess.

    I also thought it was funny that it picked Temecula Lanes TWICE! I threw out the first one (since we just played there) but I'll be darned if it didn't pick it again! To set up the random draw, I put two entries into the system for each center in OCUSBC, SDUSBC, and Citrus Belt USBC...then I added 1 entry for the centers in the LAUSBC (mainly sourthern) that were within the radius. I set a range in the random number generator and it spit out numbers. 49 and 50 (of 95) were Temecula's numbers and it picked 49 first, then 50 later on. It didn't pick any San Diego centers....partly because I don't think there's that many centers. LA and the Citrus Belt had huge lists of centers...Orange County had a fair amount as well. But I think San Diego had 4 that weren't on military bases. But it's not "perfect"...because after doing the drawing...I don't remember seeing the Lanes in Oceanside or Fountain Valley on the lists...nor that Lucky Strike alley in Orange County...so I may have missed a few when I populated the list.

    Even if we don't do the Tour, we should get together again and just do a friendly exhibition competition...even if Mike doesn't want in. If I take out all the centers that are kinda far of a drive for you, that still leaves us with:

    June: Brunswick Cal Oaks Bowl, Murrieta CA
    September: Temecula Lanes, Temecula CA
    October: AMF Hemet Lanes, Hemet CA
    December: Trevi Bowling Center, Lake Elsinore CA

    Those 4 are still doable.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    Even if we don't do the Tour, we should get together again and just do a friendly exhibition competition...even if Mike doesn't want in.
    Cool, maybe we put the tour on hold until May. I'm hoping for good news this week, once that is taken care of I'll contact Mike and see if we can get a day where I come up to get my ball tri-grip-ified and we can maybe throw a few games then.

  9. #29

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    bowl it like a sweeper.....5 game qualifying, then cut the field to the top 50%, then single elimination matches.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by kakcpa View Post
    bowl it like a sweeper.....5 game qualifying, then cut the field to the top 50%, then single elimination matches.
    This is a great idea. Keep it simple. 210 scratch, 80% handicap, max of 40 pins a game.
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