BowlingBoards.com Southern California Tour: Inaugural Season

[Aslan]

Okay fellas!!!

Bowlingboards.com has reached out to me and like the idea of this whole "virtual tour" thing. They are even offering a $25 gift certificate to the winner if we put this thing together.

Now, since I hadn't originally designed it to be a "virtual tour"; I'm going to ask for some help/input.

Here are the issues we need some ideas/solutions to:

FORMAT and VALIDATION

FORMAT:
For format, I'm looking at a monthly submission. You bowl once per month and you submit the series results to me via PM or email. Each month, you must bowl at a different house. You lose 10 pins of handicap when you bowl at a house where you play in a league there. After 5 months, the top 50% of the entrants move on to a tournament format. The tournament will be single elimination until an ultimate champion is crowned.

THAT is the baseline FORMAT. But please feel free to add ANYTHING or ANY IDEAS you might have that are different, or might improve upon that format.

Next; VALIDATION:
And THIS is the tricky one. THIS is the part that is currently keeping this from being a reality.
1) It has to be handicap. If it's not, we'll lose 3/4 of the bowlers because they won't bother to participate when they KNOW they're going to lose. But what should we set as a FAIR handicap? 90% of 210? 220? 230? What handicap do we use?

IDEA #1: 90% of 220. Any participant with an established USBC average uses their most recent book average and will need to submit they're USBC number for validation. IF you don't have a Bowl.com average, you use your current, USBC sanctioned average. However, to validate this would require the person to submit a picture of their league sheet from the week PRIOR TO the week they bowl for the Tour. IF a bowler doesn't have a sanctioned book average nor is presently in a sanctioned league, we could use a non-sanctioned league average (NOT "no tap") with a penalty where those bowlers only get 70% rather than 90% of 220 for handicap. For those not in a league, no book, nothing…they bowl scratch.

2) We NEED a way to validate results. And this isn't as easy as just taking a picture of the score monitor. We need to have some way to validate that the person isn't picking and choosing whatever series is their best. The easiest way to do this is to make people bowl in the presence of other users. I meet up with Bunny one month, MWhite the next, maybe ZDawg the next, etc… That way they can validate my scores and I theirs.

But will that severely limit participation?? What if you're the only bowling boards user in your area??

As to equipment and other rules…probably not that important. I mean, USBC rules would apply but thats fairly standard.

So, lets get some serious input…try to iron out the details…and maybe we can unveil this thing in time for an April Round 1.

I'll handle governing it and getting the scores and publishing rankings and all that stuff. But I need some of you folks to help iron out some of the glaring validation issues and ensure the format doesn't have any glaring holes in it.

Thanks!!

[mc_runner]

Most alleys will print out your scoresheet if you ask - how about having them print it, then scan it in and email over to (someone)? The idea of a witness is good, but it might be an option for anyone not near others on here.

[noeymc]

the only person who was close to me was bill lololol u guys can trust him right heres my ideas


90% of 220 max handicap = 30 pins

a print off of all scores if you guys want i will have everyone send me there scores

3 game set vs one other person you must post 5 bowling lanes near u please put where you bowl at mike will pick for everyone east of the Mississippi alsan will pick for everyone west of it ( he wont pick for people in cali someone else will )

a print off of scores if the lanes mess up most print offs will show you fixed ur score you are allowed 1 fix per game you must put on here what time u will bowl this way the print off will show time/ date

single game sets we will use the highest avg for this season if u dont have one for this season you will bowl your 3 game set and get handicap off of that set

in order to get everyones avg please email me a pic of a updated score sheet i will then post with the user name with there avg

i say give it 2 weeks for sign ups and u have 2 days after the sign up last day to get the avgs in the 3rd day i will post avgs with the bowlingboards user name

any objections ? this is the most fair in my mind


http://challonge.com/tournament/bracket_generator

for the brackets

[Aslan]

Most alleys will print out your scoresheet if you ask - how about having them print it, then scan it in and email over to (someone)? The idea of a witness is good, but it might be an option for anyone not near others on here.

How can we stop people from bowling 3 games, not liking their scores, then bowling 3 more games? Lets say you go to Alley #1, bowl a 113-178-165. You figure, "why bother submitting that? Other than helping to bring my virtual tour average down...it's an embarassment." Then you go buy 3 more games and bowl a 242-194-184. <------We have to figure out a way around that. A witness means BOTH people would have to agree to be cheaters...which lessens the liklihood. It also serves the purpose of forcing some of you lame-o-trons to actually go meet someone from the website in person.

But I agree...we may need to provide an exception clause for those that sign up and simply don't have anyone from the website within 110 miles of them or something like that. We (and the website) want to get everyone involved as possible.

90% of 220 max handicap = 30 pins

90% of 220 is fine...but you're calculating it wrong. It's (.9 * 220) = 198. 198 - Average = HC. Everyone getting 30 pins would defeat the purpose of a handicap.

a print off of all scores if you guys want i will have everyone send me there scores
a print off of scores if the lanes mess up most print offs will show you fixed ur score you are allowed 1 fix per game you must put on here what time u will bowl this way the print off will show time/ date

Won't solve the problem (above).

3 game set vs one other person you must post 5 bowling lanes near u please put where you bowl at mike will pick for everyone east of the Mississippi alsan will pick for everyone west of it ( he wont pick for people in cali someone else will )

I like the idea of picking alleys for the bowlers...to push them outside their comfort zone. But if we get more than 15 bowlers interested, this could be time consuming. And if we have the requirement of another BBer there as a witness, it gets even more complicated. But I'm open to it.

single game sets we will use the highest avg for this season if u dont have one for this season you will bowl your 3 game set and get handicap off of that set

The way I see this is simple. Everyone starts with an established average (see my email). Since it's a TOUR and not an Invitational/tournament...the average will adjust from month to month. At the end of each month, I'll simply re-adjust the averages based on how well or badly the bowler did that month. Example:

Aslan enters with a USBC average of 165 (past season). Since it's not on Bowl.com yet (assuming), I simply provide the last scoresheet from last season validating the average. In April, I bowl my Tour event and bowl a 120-135-139. The average for that series is 131.33. Going into the May Tour event, my average becomes (131.33+165)/2 or 148.

"Winners" will be determined based on one or a combination of (input requested):
1) Most games bowled above your average.
2) Higest increase in average over the X months.
3) Total Handicap pinfall.
4) And/Or a blind match-up where people are paired (randomly) each month so lets say ZDawg gets randomly paired with MC_Runner...zdawg bowls a 149-151-138 (+ 141 (47/game) pins of HC) = 579. MC-Runner on the other side of the country bowls a 138-184-191 (+ 114 (38/game) pins of HC) = 627. ZDawg would get 1 point for winning Game 1. MC Runner would get 3 points for winning Games 2 and 3 and Total Pinfall.

One "idea" I have is that the person with the highest increase in average gets an automatic bid into the tournament. Same with Total HC Pinfall. Same with most games bowled above your average. So at the end of lets say 5 months...if we have 32 total participants...we give out 3 automatic bids based on pinfall, most improved, and most games bowled above your average....then take the 13 bowlers with the most points won (#4 above). Seeding will just be based on points. Thoughts??

in order to get everyones avg please email me a pic of a updated score sheet i will then post with the user name with there avg

Hold up. Most averages can be easily gotten by looking up their USBC numbers on Bowl.com. If they don't have one...then we need last season's last weeks scoresheet scanned and emailed or a ling to league secretary or a similar facsimile. But lets get the rules ironed out before we start having paperwork flying around.

i say give it 2 weeks for sign ups and u have 2 days after the sign up last day to get the avgs in the 3rd day i will post avgs with the bowlingboards user name

any objections ? this is the most fair in my mind

Once we get the rules set, 2 weeks for sign-up and getting averages validated. I will then post the starting averages. Each month end, I'll post an update in terms of results, standings, and new averages going into the next month.

I think we have enough of a format to propose the Tour and start getting sign-ups. The ONLY MAJOR ISSUE still outstanding is how to validate and ensure people are only bowling 3 games (not bowling 9 and taking the best series of the 3). Is there any objections to the requirement that you bowl against another BBer/participant in person IF one lives within 110 miles of you? We don't have a list of participants yet so I have no idea how it will look...but I'm concerned that without some way to validate that the person bowled ONLY 3 games...(not "best of")...we're just wasting our time. I mean, I can bowl 600 series if I get enough "tries".

I'll draw up the draft format/rules tonight and post it. In the meantime, any thoughts about how to address the issue (above); please post them...along with any other suggestions. Best case, maybe we can start a thread with the rules and start the 2-week window for registration...see how much interest is really out there. Thanks!

[noeymc]

how wont it fix the problem if you say your going to be there at said time print offs will tell you what time they finished there first game shouldnt be no more then 15-30 mins and if its 10 mins after the time you will obv no somthings not right

and i say no to the raised avg cuz if someones avg 220 there avg isnt going to go up a lot not fair to people with higher avgs

[Perrin]

Do the alleys you guys are talking about have X-bowling?
that could be used to monitor.

Or score consoles that allow you to sign in with facebook? in that case you could create a facebook group and post when/where you are bowlling and the result would be posted by the console.

[bowl1820]

90% of 220 max handicap = 30 pins

noeymc I believe is suggesting a limit or "cap" of 30 pins, not that the handicap is 30 pins. It should have read more like this:
90% of 220 with a max handicap of 30 pins

90% of 220 is fine...but you're calculating it wrong. It's (.9 * 220) = 198. 198 - Average = HC. Everyone getting 30 pins would defeat the purpose of a handicap.

Sorry but your calculating it wrong, that's not how you figure handicap.

It's the ("scratch base" - Average) * Percentage = Handicap

Example:
A 160 Average with a Handicap of 90% of 220

220 - 160 = 60
60 * .9 = 54 pins handicap

[mc_runner]

I really don't think cheating will be much of an issue on this... it's all for fun, and the time/effort going in to do that would be a little ridiculous. To get around any possible issues though, a "check in" type deal would probably do it. We could probably set up a private thing somewhere (facebook? some other site I'm not familiar with that I'm sure exists?) that has a check in time when we turn on a lane, and it'll coincide with the print out time. "mc_runner checked in at x alley at 2:48pm" - then you see the printout matching closely with the time.

in terms of the handicap, bowl1820 is right on how it's calculated. Not a real big fan of a max handicap though, since it could discourage some folks. People with a really high average come out a little bit ahead with the 90% of 220 system anyway.

[Aslan]

noeymc I believe is suggesting a limit or "cap" of 30 pins, not that the handicap is 30 pins. It should have read more like this:
90% of 220 with a max handicap of 30 pins

Well, thats just a different version of dumb. We can't cap it at 30. Then anyone with an average lower than 190 might as well stay home and play Wii bowling.

Sorry but your calculating it wrong, that's not how you figure handicap.

It's the ("scratch base" - Average) * Percentage = Handicap

Example:
A 160 Average with a Handicap of 90% of 220

220 - 160 = 60
60 * .9 = 54 pins handicap

I DID NOT KNOW THAT!! Looks like Bowl1820 taught me useful stuff ONCE AGAIN!! If he didn't hate me....I'd love him!!

I really don't think cheating will be much of an issue on this... it's all for fun, and the time/effort going in to do that would be a little ridiculous.

You'd be surprised. After some of the shennanigans I've seen by bowlers to win a trophy or a towel...or God forbid money. And after our own little witch hunt/truth hunt here on BB where certain members "may or may not have" told some "fish stories"...for nothing other than trying to impress people on the internet...yeah, people will cheat.

noeymc- The person with most games over average or most improved would be equivalent to the under .500 team that gets into the March Madness tournament and gets blown out by Kansas in Round 1. It's an automatic bid to get in the tourney...but you still get seeded based on points...and it would only be ONE spot. 13 of the 16 spots would be based on points. Think of it like the PBA where they have honorary berths into tournaments, like "Commisioner's exemption" or something like that. They still have to make it past 4 rounds to win.

[Aslan]

I wonder what the Vegas odds are on this thing actually happening?

I'll put the proposal out there....see what happens. But I got a feeling we're gonna get less than 7 people who want to do it. Then probably will lose 4 of them for one reason or another...couldn't make it, injury, time conflicts, etc... But, maybe I'm wrong. Too bad Iceman isn't around...he'd DEFINITELY be in!!

Oh well...tonight I'll get something up and we'll see what happens.