1st Annual BowlingBoards.com Virtual Tour!!!

[Aslan]

I vote noeymc is part of the committee if he isn't already and his vote stands to let the scores be valid and I also vote to let the scores stand. Zdawg, I believe 3rd member of the committee can vote yeah or neigh, but it would just be a formality if everyone agrees with noeymc on the committee and then his vote and mine is 2/3.

Judgement stands. Mike's scores are valid. I have not received anything from Bunny as of yet.

This should serve as notice though - you have to bowl in one of the houses Aslan draws (he drew several for each player) or request a redraw with a valid reason. I am not sure I agree with the thought process of why he bowled where he did but I don't want to drag this out either and I don't feel it affected his scores positive or negative.

I am in the same position Mudpuppy. Deer Creek Lanes was a very good location for Bunny/MWhite. It was <40 miles from Bunny and < 20 miles from MWhite. Now Bunny did mention she believed it to be a safety concern…but the bottom line is Rancho Cucamonga is actually SAFER, statistics-wise, than Chino or Riverside. I'm not sure if Chapparal300 is in Chino or Chino Hills (Chino Hills is statistically safer)…but Bunny's home center is actually in a less safe area (statistically) than Rancho Cucamonga…as is my home center!

So, while I certainly don't want people dodging gang drive-bys in order to participate…we also have to have some type of "rules" in place or pretty soon everyone will just go wherever and claim it's safer. What if they have to drive "by" an area that isn't safe? Stormed1 lives south of Chicago…where there's NO safe areas…do we make him drive 50 miles to North of Chicago so he's "safer"?

I agree - come up with a list of acceptable centers and let the people choose. Gives more flexibility.

That is a valid idea.

I don't even care if you take the home centers off the list as long as it doesn't significantly narrow the person's options - i.e. like for me it would be no issue with the large number of lanes around me. But for someone in a more remote area it might not be possible to do so.

Correct. While you have 148 centers within 90 miles…some people have as few as 13.

And in my opinion we need to discuss a couple of options: 1. Say you have a list of 6 centers - if you bowl in Center A in April then in May you have to choose one of the other centers or 2. You can bowl in Center A for April and every other month but once you bowl there if you repeat the next month -10 or something like you would for your home center. Then it encourages people not to just bowl in the same lanes but also leaves the option open to bowl somewhere that is in reasonable travel distance, etc.

I'd prefer they bowl in a different center each month.

One thing I've thought of doing is handing over the reins to Mudpuppy. I can furnish him the lists of centers, etc.. I'll take his spot on the "council" with noeymc and ZDawg. And I'll still participate. I just think this "random centers" thing is potentially going to kill the Tour before it ever gets started. While some folks are eager and adventurous…I think there is a another significant contingent that are just too dead set against the concept. And like I told Bunny when I emailed her back…she's NOT going to be the last one with this issue. I don't want her to feel like "she's the problem"…because she's not…this was BOUND to happen…if not this month then next month, etc… I feel like I am too biased FOR the randomized centers because I spent the better part of a week putting those lists together…so I'm kinda invested in it. And I still feel it's the fairest way to do it…while also adding that "uncomfortableness" of tournament play where you're in a strange place, bowling a limited # of games that count. I feel like if we do some kind of "choose your own"…folks that have bowled at multiple centers in their area will have a distinct advantage. But, I'm willing to step aside and let Mudpuppy take it from here if thats better for the Tour as a whole.

[Mudpuppy]

I don't think you should step aside. You put a ton of work into this and I want to see it be successful for season 1 with your model. In professional sports - such as baseball or football, whatever name your sport - they set the rules at the beginning of the season and that is what they run with. Is there anyone currently that won't / can't bowl because of these rules? I don't think so. If there is anyone can we resolve their issue(s) without affecting the overall fairness of the competition? I really think we can make this work and I will support it any way I can. There is always comments and opinions - don't take it personal. Your overall style obviously invites controversy sometimes. No big deal. Just go with it. I just think there is a lot of chatter. By month 2 or 3 it will die down and we can just enjoy this unique competition that you have come up with. Then for season 2 we can vote for a leader and committee. They can review the pros and cons, the good and bad, etc. and modify for season 2. My only concern is we just need to do whatever we can to facilitate participation and if that means being a little more flexible, within reason, on the centers people bowl at then so be it. It still is random centers just modified slightly. Maybe after the first month we should take a vote of all participants on the random centers with 2 or 3 options and that will make sure everyone stays involved. Ideas, comments, suggestions welcome. And if anyone currently can't bowl because of the draws for April please speak up.

[Mudpuppy]

Was making a joke....hence the LOL.

10-4 I know

[Aslan]

I don't think you should step aside. You put a ton of work into this and I want to see it be successful for season 1 with your model. In professional sports - such as baseball or football, whatever name your sport - they set the rules at the beginning of the season and that is what they run with.

Agreed.

Is there anyone currently that won't / can't bowl because of these rules? I don't think so. If there is anyone can we resolve their issue(s) without affecting the overall fairness of the competition? I really think we can make this work and I will support it any way I can.

I think if the next person "decides" to bowl somewhere non-assigned and the decision is to invalidate their scores...them and probably others would definitely quit. Before the Bunny/MWhite rebellion (joking) decided to "Choose Their Own Adventure" and bowl at a non-designated center...Bunny would have lost 4 points for not bowling at her assigned center...I think she'd have quit if that was the case...especially if her May draw was equally unacceptable to her.

There is always comments and opinions - don't take it personal. Your overall style obviously invites controversy sometimes. No big deal. Just go with it. I just think there is a lot of chatter. By month 2 or 3 it will die down and we can just enjoy this unique competition that you have come up with.

I don't take it personally. I realize the push back is more about the "random center assignement" than about me personally.

Alright....here's the deal. Everyone has their assigned centers for April...with the exception of MWhite and Bunny (although I still don't have Bunny's scores....I have MWhite's and not Bunny's...if they bowled together I would think she'd be able to get me her's by Friday)....everyone is to bowl at the assigned centers.

FOR MAY....I will list the centers for each of you...and it is up to you, as soon as you can....to pick SIX of the centers from your list. Those are the six that will be randomly generated. The only rule is you can't pick the center you bowled at in April. I will still rendomly generate the centers but ONLY from the list of six you've chosen. You STILL will lose 10 pins handicap per game for bowling at a home center...so keep that in mind.

That is fair...it should eliminate ALL issues we've had with random centers to date...and the decision is FINAL. If one of your 6 is 71 miles away...then you should live in a less butttastic area that has more bowling alleys...not my problem. And if you "decide" not to bowl at the center drawn (from YOUR list of 6)...for whatever reason....not withstanding a fire or earthquake or grizzly bear on the loose...your scores don't count...and I don't care. Don't like the preceeding 2 sentences?? Don't care....VOTE MUDPUPPY 2015.

Debate over....go bowl....get me scores...lets get month #1 in the books before I develop an ulcer.

[tr33frog]

Do we have till this Friday, or the end of the month?

[vdubtx]

Have until April 30th to get your scores in.

[noeymc]

i am for random centers maybe not 75 miles away but like 20-30 lol buts its already done with if people want to quit let them go this was bond to have issues we couldnt fore see and we need to address them as they come up

[zdawg]

Here's a quick question, for this month I drew my home center and I have league night on Friday (at that center)...can I use my league night scores this week? The only real difference is that I won't get a full practice game in, since we have 5 people on each team sharing the 10 minute warmup period I usually get about 3-4 frames worth of shots if I'm lucky.

Not a huge deal either way, I can always go back either Saturday or Sunday since its not that far from my apartment, I just figured since I'm already going to be bowling there Friday night might as well check if that's ok to use those scores.

[Aslan]

I thought I put this in the rules but may have forgotten, a participant canNOT use their league scores. This should be a seperate event, 1 game pf practice, then 3 games. Preferably on 2 alternating lanes...but if you can only reserve a single lane...so be it. But I don't like the idea of it being during league play because then you're in your "comfort zone". I know I was planning to put that in the rules...because I remember also thinking that we needed to definitely specify it so that a person wouldn't bowl for the virtual tour, bowl badly, then say, "oh well...no bigee...I'll just use my league night scores because they were pretty good last week."

Allowing someone to use league scores, gives them 4 chances per month to essentially bowl "best of 4 series" That is a HUGE advantage! Granted, a person could cheat and do that by bowling at a center multiple times and then reporting their best series....but everyone is on the honor system in that regard. So no, sorry...no league scores. Hopefully bowling at your center, less pressure than leagues, and with a full game warm-up will actually give you better scores...but if it doesn't...thats bowling.

Also, while I'm thinking of it...when you submit scores, please try to submit the 4-games. The first one is the practice, followed by 3 games that count. AND...if you're the rare folks that bowl against each other, please submit the scores showing that you actually each bowled each other. The desk should be able to print out a sheet showing all 4 games...both bowlers. I don't know why all the scoresheets I've gotten have been 3-games...1 person. Might be the software the alley is using...not sure. Thats why the BEST option would be to take a camera phone picture of the monitors (if it shows up well....I've had some experiences where it was near impossible to read) after each of the 4 games...but whatever...just try to remember to report all 4 games; 1st one being practice and try to submit (for paired bowlers) scoresheets where you are both listed.

[Aslan]

i am for random centers maybe not 75 miles away but like 20-30 lol buts its already done with if people want to quit let them go this was bond to have issues we couldnt fore see and we need to address them as they come up

Exactly. I don't have an issue with making slight adjustments for things we didn't see coming. For example:

- The issue of centers with very limited hours. I did not initially see that as an issue. I didn't realize that some of these centers have such weird hours (open only after 5PM on weekdays).
- The issue of medical concerns such as (I think it was Stormed1) where he had eyesight problems and other health issues that limited his ability to bowl at night.

Those are perfectly reasonable issues to make accomodations for...and completely unforeseen. But as we've made accomodations...we seem to be getting more objections based on what I would call "marginal" or "convenience" issues. I thought that might happen...even before we started we had 3-4 participants stating they wouldn't play at X center primarily because they just didn't like it (for multiple reasons).

So I did foresee it as being an "issue"...but like MudPuppy...I was hopeful/optimistic that if we could just get 1-2 months under our belts...people would start to see it as more "fun/interesting"...and not as much feeling "inconvenienced".

But, I think the SIX CENTER lists...still randomly chosen...will be a very, very fair compromise. If people specify 6 centers and STILL have issues bowling where assigned...then, well...I don't think they are ever going to be happy until they get to just bowl in their own house...and thats kinda pointless. That would lead to just turining in league sheets and whomever bowls best in summer leagues this season...winner winner chicken dinner. So...I'll start another (yet another) thread where all participants will be asked to go in there and pick their 6 centers (not including where they bowled in April) and I will ONLY use those six chosen centers going forward. I think thats very, very fair.