Question regarding moving left. Any systems??

[RobLV1]

Aslan, has anyone ever commented on the smoke coming out of your ears from all of the overthinking that you do? I simply suggested that you try two or three different lines during practice to find out how the lanes are reacting, and you've made it into a system. You seem to want rules, but in reality, there are no rules. Each outing is a different experience. You try something and sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. Last Tuesday, as I told you, I shot 185-215-253 by figuring out that I needed to use two different bowling balls on the two lanes. Fast forward three days to Friday where I struck at will in practice, and watched as the lanes got so bizarre that I ended up shooting 521 in a league in which I average 205. Despite a great shot in practice, I left eight or nine splits in three games. I tried everything that I could think of, but nothing worked. Oh well. I bowled well, but got nothing for it. I don't think the experience will lead me to invent a new system. I'll just keep watching and trying to figure out how to adjust. It'd probably be a good idea for you to do the same.

[Amyers]

Why in the h*** would you move if your striking unless the ball is laboring or exiting off the end of the lane poorly that you didn't mention. If your striking and the ball looks good leave it the h*** alone. I threw 6 strikes in a row Friday night never moved and inch. Unless someone is playing on your line you can generally stay there a while. Don't make your move off of arbitrary data number of strikes you do it off the reaction of the ball and the pins.

[Hampe]

Lol.....I had the same reaction when reading Aslan's post. Why are you moving after 2 strikes?

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any system that exists that says "if you leave X pin, make Y adjustment". Any system like that will first be dependent on the pattern you're playing, and then on the center you're playing in, since not every pattern will play identical in every center (not to mention it would be different depending on your individual bowling style as well).

So far, the only way I've found to get better at adjustments is through practice and experience. You have to practice reading your ball and what it's doing, where it's hitting the pins, the angle it's coming in, and where it rolls off the deck after rolling through the pins. You get experience just from playing on different patterns in different centers. After a while, you start to know which adjustment will have which effect depending on what you're playing on, and what your ball just did.

[Bunny]

Some info here by Jef, with one "f", Goodger. I like his articles. There's quite a few to explore. Sometimes you have to look within his articles for links to more articles.


http://bowling.about.com/od/learntob...tments_hub.htm

http://bowling.about.com/od/learntob...rowstrikes.htm

http://bowling.about.com/od/learntob...n-Practice.htm

[Aslan]

Why in the h*** would you move if your striking unless the ball is laboring or exiting off the end of the lane poorly that you didn't mention. If your striking and the ball looks good leave it the h*** alone. I threw 6 strikes in a row Friday night never moved and inch. Unless someone is playing on your line you can generally stay there a while. Don't make your move off of arbitrary data number of strikes you do it off the reaction of the ball and the pins.

Lol.....I had the same reaction when reading Aslan's post. Why are you moving after 2 strikes?

I "believe" (and REMEMBER...I'm borrowing this from someone who is a USBC coach that posted on another site a few years back..) that the idea is to stay ahead of the ball eventually moving left. So if you strike twice, then move a little right (target and feet)...you maintain that angle into the pocket. If you simply move your feet left instead (which I think the majority of the people do/would)...you are now changing that entry angle.

Again, I "believe" after 2 moves, you go back to the original line and ball down...BECAUSE...if you move too far right...you get into a drier part of the lane (on a THS) so the ball will start hooking more, earlier, or erratically. So you go back to your starting line and just ball down...then double, move, double, move.

Now, I have multiple problems with this theory in terms of it's use:

1) It "may" or "may not" work on sport patterns...depending on the pattern.
2) If it's not designed for pros...and intended for amateurs on non-sport patterns...
a) It requires you to throw VERY repeatable shots on VERY repeatable lines for it to work.
b) I think it depends how close you play to the outside line (boards 1-7). Obviously if you're playing the 12-board and move twice...2 boards each...you're at the 8-board. No bigee. But if you're playing the 6-board...moving twice means you're now playing the 2-board...and thats a tough and erratic place to play on a THS.
3) Let's say, for the sake of arguement, it WORKS....you'd be changing balls THREE times during a 300 game!! NOBODY changes balls THREE TIMES in a game...much LESS...even changes balls during a 300 run!!!

So yes, after my initial test of this method...I think there are some good takeaways from it...like the changing of targets closer and further down the lane for example...and I like that it gives you a guideline for considering a ball change...but it's FAR from perfect in terms of a bulletproof system.

[Amyers]

I "believe" (and REMEMBER...I'm borrowing this from someone who is a USBC coach that posted on another site a few years back..) that the idea is to stay ahead of the ball eventually moving left. So if you strike twice, then move a little right (target and feet)...you maintain that angle into the pocket. If you simply move your feet left instead (which I think the majority of the people do/would)...you are now changing that entry angle.

Again, I "believe" after 2 moves, you go back to the original line and ball down...BECAUSE...if you move too far right...you get into a drier part of the lane (on a THS) so the ball will start hooking more, earlier, or erratically. So you go back to your starting line and just ball down...then double, move, double, move.

Now, I have multiple problems with this theory in terms of it's use:

1) It "may" or "may not" work on sport patterns...depending on the pattern.
2) If it's not designed for pros...and intended for amateurs on non-sport patterns...
a) It requires you to throw VERY repeatable shots on VERY repeatable lines for it to work.
b) I think it depends how close you play to the outside line (boards 1-7). Obviously if you're playing the 12-board and move twice...2 boards each...you're at the 8-board. No bigee. But if you're playing the 6-board...moving twice means you're now playing the 2-board...and thats a tough and erratic place to play on a THS.
3) Let's say, for the sake of arguement, it WORKS....you'd be changing balls THREE times during a 300 game!! NOBODY changes balls THREE TIMES in a game...much LESS...even changes balls during a 300 run!!!

So yes, after my initial test of this method...I think there are some good takeaways from it...like the changing of targets closer and further down the lane for example...and I like that it gives you a guideline for considering a ball change...but it's FAR from perfect in terms of a bulletproof system.

Toss it the entire idea is nonsense.

Being ahead of the transition is a noble idea a good example is a high strike or the ball leaving the pattern on the wrong side of the 8 pin. moves should be made from empirical data not preset numbers of strikes or balls thrown.

Patterns break down differently due to temperature, humidity, oil pattern, lane topography, number of bowlers playing on the line, surface of the balls used on the line, and many others differences that I'm not thinking of right now. It is completely impossible to assign an arbitrary number of balls thrown before moving.

Continue to throw your line until you have evidence it needs to change. Then make parallel moves until you reach a point that your not comfortable most likely somewhere before 15 for you Aslan. Once you have reached that point ball down move right and repeat.

Even with the Asylum which requires more oil than my Euphoria some nights I can get all three games in just with small moves some nights by the end of the second game I'm grabbing the Euphoria. Don't make the game more complicated than it has to be.

[Aslan]

Aslan, has anyone ever commented on the smoke coming out of your ears from all of the overthinking that you do?

No. I've had them comment negatively about most other aspects of my game and appearance...but not that per se. I HAVE had more than one person tell me not think so much and just throw the damn ball...which I think is close.

You seem to want rules, but in reality, there are no rules.

Now you sound like Iceman...either I'm gifted OR I should quit bowling because I'm never going to amount to anything. No rules, no tricks, no techniques....just a question that says "GIFTED?" with two checkboxes next to it.

I'm not looking for a hard and fast "rule". I mean, if that existed and was bulletproof...everybody would do it.

What I was looking for is...based on the assumptions below:

IF
1) Changing balls won't allow you to drastically change your line. (previous testing found all balls generally follow the same line)
2) Having an arsenal is still valuable because it can give you slight angle changes into the pocket.
3) Hitting the pocket will not guarantee strikes if the ball isn't hitting it the most optimal way.

THEN
A bowler MUST have some system of switching from one ball to another. "When" to do it...."How" it will change the next shot...etc...

FAR too many bowlers with more than 2 balls in their bags switch balls in a virtually random fashion based on NOTHING other than they didn't strike or make a good shot the frame before. Which, was a HUGE reason why I initially thought the idea of an "arsenal" was rather stupid and simply a trick by ball manufactuers to get people to buy more bowling balls.

I don't want to be "those guys". I want to be able to see "something" that makes a little alarm go off in my head...that sends a phone call to my brain requesting either a ball "up" or a ball "down".

And...while you are critical in my quest for these answers...it's fair to remind you...YOUR articles awoke this monster. IT is YOU that claims ball changes are necessary AND bowlers should better KNOW their arsenals. I am merely following your teachings!!

I understand how to optimize ball speed, targeting (further/close), and lateral movements. The last piece of that puzzle...is figuring out when to do the first 3 things...versus a ball change. If I strike 4 times (rare) and then leave a single 10-pin....my FORTRAN-like rules driven mind is going to want to know what to do next:

- Roll it slightly slower?
- Maybe move outside 1 with my eyes and 2-3 with my feet to optimize the angle?
- Maybe move 2-3 boards left (feet) and my target a board left to hit the pocket more directly?
- Ball "up" to the next more aggressive ball on that line...to get just a 'little' better angle?
- Maybe throw at the same speed and release, but move my target IN so it reacts with the lanes just a 'little' bit longer?
- Maybe keep the target the same and try to add some "hand"?

Maybe do NONE of those things and throw the same shot...and next time it strikes???

See, I've always followed the mantra that it's all about hitting the POCKET. You hammer that pocket...you'll get high scores. You miss the pocket...you're gonna have a very bad night.

BUT....as my game has improved...I'm now seeing more and more clean frames...but not more STRIKES! And THAT....is frustrating. Don't get me wrong...I'd live to be the world's best spare shooting...and I'll take being a good bowler and picking up spares over some 2-handed or thumbless "wonder" that sometimes scores big but can't pick up spares if they leave them. BUT...I'm tellin ya...170-190 games...CLEAN...where you strike once or maybe twice...that makes for a LONG, LONG night. And EVERY frame...EVERY frame becomes crucial...because when you can't strike...1-2 missed spares and you don't bowl your average.

[Aslan]

Some info here by Jef, with one "f", Goodger. I like his articles. There's quite a few to explore. Sometimes you have to look within his articles for links to more articles.

http://bowling.about.com/od/learntob...n-Practice.htm

This last one was interesting about throwing strikes in practice. I used to just keep throwing, but now I sit down once I have my "strike line". Maybe one thing I "should" be doing is after finding my strike line...throw my ball over the strike line of the highest average player on the other team until practice ends.

Hmmmm....thats almost Grinch like in both it's genius and it's evil-ness!!

[RobLV1]

Okay, to try to get you to understand, I did a little experiment this morning. I went to practice on a pair of lanes. I bowled one game to warm up, and another to find a line. It's very humid here right now, so there was a lot of over/under. I had four balls with me: a very aggressive pearl with a lot of surface (Exile), a mid-aggressive solid with some surface (Blue Ringer), a mid-aggressive hybrid with some surface and a very light polish (Meanstreak Brawler), and a less agressive solid with some surface and lots of polish (LT 48). I lined up standing 32 and playing right around the third arrow, though I target at the reflections of the pins and just notice where the ball is crossing the arrows. I found that I could get all four balls to the pocket by varying the breakpoint down the lane. The Exile needed the most angle, but tended to leave ringing tens. The LT 48 needed the least angle, but reacted late, in most cases barely tripping the four. Both the Ringer and the Brawler were between the two with the Ringer needing slightly more angle, and the Brawler giving me the most carry.

I noticed that you referred to the balls giving you the angle. What you need to understand is that YOU choose the angle based on what the ball and the lanes are giving you. In order to play deeper, you have to utilize a third point down the lane to help you to establish the right angle for you. Does this make sense?

[Aslan]

I noticed that you referred to the balls giving you the angle. What you need to understand is that YOU choose the angle based on what the ball and the lanes are giving you. In order to play deeper, you have to utilize a third point down the lane to help you to establish the right angle for you. Does this make sense?

Yes. And that is sort of the process I've been trying to use to choose the best line. I don't think I'd have the time pre-league to try 3 different lines (per lane) and THEN try all 5 balls on each line I chose to see which one is carrying the best.

I guess my follow-up question would be, on a LEAGUE night...per se...once you have chosen the line to play on a given lane...do you then try every ball out on that line?

I used to always use my most aggressive ball on the furthest outside line I was comfortable with. I could then move left as the lanes dictated. And if I got too far left where that ball was not doing well at the extreme angle...I could ball down and start again...playing more of a middle line.

However, as I incorporated your "let the lanes dictate the line you play" philosophy...I orginally would just use the best ball for that line...the one that gave me the most angle and board coverage. Then, if I needed to switch lines...go get the best ball for the new line.

Currently, I'm trying a new technique where once I determine the line (dictated by the lanes in practice), I will use the "middle aggression" ball on that line...so that I have 2 balls MORE aggressive and two balls LESS aggressive on that given line so that I can ball "up" or "down" if need be.

It would probably be good once the line is chosen to try all 5 balls on that line. But...it takes me a minimum of 3 shots on each lane just to figure out the optimal line (3 lines). It would take, minimally, another 4 shots on each lane to determine the optimal ball. That "might" be doable...7 shots per lane in practice...but man, that might be tight.

Thanks!